Sorry to hear pal :/
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I wasn't until I saw it and now I don't know how I've been living without it
Matt Bevenour in real life
Julian's main list has one more birchlore rangers, none mana dork elf like llanowar elf, has none creature against combo
So Julian what strategy did you follow with this list on each match up especially with this new sideboard without any natural order or progenitus or worldspine wurm?
Hey all,
I started playing elves relatively recently but immediately fell in love with the deck. I'm planning on taking it to the upcoming SCG open in Worcester, and thus I've begun testing in earnest with a buddy of mine. He's planning on playing a 4c Delver deck with Deathrite, Young Pyro, Treasure Cruise, Cabal Therapy, Decay, Bolt, etc. We decided we might as well test our decks against each others to start off. Despite his deck not exactly being mainstream, I figure that it's a pretty logical conclusion to come to after trying to tune the UR deck that won the last open to beat other treasure cruise decks and just play better cards in general (aka Deathrite over Swiftspear). Brad Nelson came to a similar conclusion in a premium SCG article a few days ago, thus there's probably a legitimate chance I see a similar deck at the open.
I'm playing Julian's 75 exactly, and I'm wondering what people think the ideal SB strategy is. It seems like I want my Thoughtseizes and Decays. TS for FOW, Decay or Bolt, therapy if I can get it early enough, Pyro, a lot of things really. Decay hits all his threats and any hate like cage or needle his decks brings in. At first I was testing this:
-2 Glimpse
-2 Nettle Sentinel
-2 Heritage Druid
-1 Rec Sage
+4 Thoughtseize
+3 Abrupt Decay
since this seemed like the typical glimpse package people take out. My problem was that the remaining two glimpses in my deck now felt really weak since I'd seriously diluted my elves. Thus I figured I might as well just take all four glimpses out and do:
-4 Glimpse
-1 Nettle
-1 Heritage
-1 Rec Sage
Thus far in testing this has felt quite good, but I was wondering what people thought. It seems kinda silly to take out a source of card advantage against a deck that runs Treasure Cruise, but I guess we are just hoping to keep their GY small with Deathrite / Ooze and even more ideally just kill him before cruise can matter.
Another note on the matchup - Packmaster has felt incredibly strong the two times I've managed to get her onto the battlefield. She makes Bolt and Decay look silly, and an army of wolves is the perfect remedy to an army of elementals.
Thanks for the help!
Team Info-Ninjas: Catchphrases so secret, I don't even know what they are!
If you're playing Julian's exact 75, why not side in the 2 meekstones? It is strong against delver.
Another option is to take out the NO package more than the glimpse one: NO is bad against cage, counterspell & mana denial as well as against a lot of removal if you play without progenitus.
Did you find the seizes that amazing? It's a bad topdeck, and does nothing vs delver OTD.
What the point of discarding a decay over playing one more elf? Sure they will remove probably a better one, but you loose 2 lifes and 1 mana vs your opponent loosing 2 manas.
It's a huge tempo loss, and it is bad with glimpse.
It is much better if you are on the NO plan, because it is a plan which is weak to countermagic.
I would have -1 sage -1 hoof -2 NO -1 dryad arbor + 3 decay + 2 meekstone OTD
and -1 sage -1 hoof -3 NO -1 dryad arbor + 3 decay + 2 meekstone + 1 seize OTP
Last edited by dte; 10-09-2014 at 07:01 AM.
I know there's a pimp decks thread but I wanted to post this here as well because I've been playing Elves for 6+ years and it's easily my favorite deck so....here is my elf deck!
I have 2 more Chinese foil Deathrite Shamans coming in the mail so i just put in a foil llanowar and a 4th Heritage Druid instead. I choose the make the 4th one (signed one) English because it was given to me by someone I'm really close with. I still need to finish S-Chinese foiling out the lands (it's hard finding S-chinese foil Dryad Arbors....)
Oh and sideboard, the Duresses are supposed to be Thoughtseize but i've been too lazy to find and I have a deal coming in for a playset of S-chinese foil Cabal therapy.
So much work to do but school is being dumb and expensive...
Love the chinese. Finding Chinese (S or T) cradles is really really hard.
At first I was boarding in the Meekstones, but considering Delver was the only creature in the deck they hit, they felt pretty underwhelming. Especially since the games I was losing weren't because I was being raced with Delver but rather because his counters / discard / removal would keep my early game under control and then a Young Pyromancer + Treasure Cruise would start creating an army of elementals and keep his hand full while mine was empty.
I tried boarding out the NO package, but I felt like I was still getting into these positions, except now I had zero chance of winning because I couldn't just slam NO and crush him after he'd stabilized. Thoughtseize helped to protect DRS, which is crucial for keeping him off TC as long as possible, and also helped to delay his stabilization and force through a NO or a GSZ for Packmaster.
Also while NO is weak against discard since you need to setup before hoofing them, Glimpse didn't feel much stronger as my hand was getting torn up before I was able to put anything together to allow for a decent Glimpse chain. Note that after SB his deck had 4 Cabal Therapy.
Anyways, maybe I was playing wrong and I just need to try and maximize my velocity with Glimpse and dump a ton of dudes on the board ASAP, especially since he has no sweepers.
Team Info-Ninjas: Catchphrases so secret, I don't even know what they are!
Been reading this post for the last couple days and thought I would contribute with the results from my last few weeks. An aside I have been playing Elves on and off for quite a few years and have played all of the different builds. (i.e. Emrakul, Mirror Entity)
Decklist:
//Creature (29)
1 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Heritage Druid
2 Llanowar Elves
3 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
4 Wirewood Symbiote
//Sorcery (12)
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
//Land (19)
2 Bayou
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
1 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 Blood Moon
SB: 4 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Progenitus
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
Last 5 Events:
Played Oct. 4th, 2014 in Legacy GPT for New Jersey
20 players w/ 5 rounds
Went 3-2 and got 9th due to tie breakers. (4%)
Round 1: 1-2 Reanimator
Game 1: He won the roll and Thoughtsiezed my only Deathrite Shaman, turn 3 he reanimated Elesh Norn and cleared my 6 elves.
Game 2: Mull to 6. I opened with Deathrite Shaman, and he played Blazing Archon on his turn 1. I was able to Natural Order on turn 3 for Ruric Thar, and then he attached on his turn not realizing Ruric Thar had reach.
Game 3: Mull to 6. Turn 1 he lays land, and then I play Cabal Therapy, he dazes and uses his mana to Entomb for Iona. Turn 2 he plays Reanimate and shows that he has 2 Force of Wills... I scoop.
Round 2: 2-0 High Tide
Game 1: I play some dudes and hit for damage in early turns, he counters my Glimpse and around turn 4 I hard casted Ruric Thar which locks him out.
Game 2: Again I play and early Ruric Thar which locks him out.
Round 3: 1-2 UB Omnishow (w/ 4x Emrakul & 4x Griselbrand)
Game 1: I combo out turn 3 and win.
Game 2: Turn 3 Show and Tell, he brings Emrakul and I bring Dryad Arbor:(
Game 3: Mull to 4... No mana all the way down. He has turn 3 Show and Tell for Griselbrand, I put in Birchlore Ranger.
Round 4: 2-0 Shardless Bant (w/ Thopter Foundry)
Game 1: He has a lot of early removal and has an active Jace that is fatesealing me; I manage to hard cast Ruric Thar as I have 6 mana out and a clear board. On his turn he has Karakas and proceeds to bounce Ruric Thar every turn. I keep replaying it and the elf I play. At this point I have had a Craterhoof in my hand from opening hand and he leaves a second Gaea's Cradle on my deck with allows me to hard cast the Craterhoof, he bounces Ruric Thar in response but there is still enough damage.
Game 2: I set up a Wirewood Symbiote and Reclamation Sage killing his Grafdigger's Cage and Ensnaring Bridge and then repeatedly destroyed anything he played. (This was the only match that I brought in the Blood Moons)
Round 5: 2-0 Burn
Game 1: Combo out turn 3 and end the combo by playing double Craterhoof Behemoths.
Game 2: Mull to 5... no land in first two hands again. He has an aggressive draw with Goblin Guides. Turn 1 I played a Nettle Sentinel which blocks one of his two Guides. On turn 2 I played a Deathrite Shaman, GSZ for Dryad Arbor and played a Dryad from hand. He plays Flame Rift. On turn 3 I played a Reclamation Sage (nothing to remove) to kill the other Goblin Guide. From then Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze stabilize me and I win by small beats.
Notes:
I don't feel like I played poorly at any time I just got combo quicker in the two games I lost, I also felt like I mulligan a lot, but bad days do happen.
Main Deck:
Natural Order - 4 may not be the right number, a lot of decks run Scavenging main over it, but I may just run a second Birchlore or up the Heritage Druid/ Nettle Sentinel count
Sideboard:
Blood Moon: Wasn't the day for Blood Moon to shine, most likely will be cutting the quantity to 3, maybe 2 or none.
Abrupt Decay: Never brought in all 3 at once but they didn't do much
Reclamation Sage: I really like the second copy, more copies might be better?
Cabal Therapy: I think I prefer the blue version still and may switch back to 1-2 Flusterstorm / 2-3 Swan Song (w/ Mind Break trap filling in 1-2 other slots)
Progenitus: Didn't due much but he serves his purpose
Null Rod: Brought it in against Shardless Bant and High Tide and it was good the one time I played it against High Tide
Scavenging Ooze: Potentially should be in main deck?
Changes:
Elderscale Wurm: Going to make a spot for this fun guy. Good against Burn and other non-white decks. May cut Progenitus for him
Meekstone: This is a card that is always the 16th card in my sideboard. (the last cut)
4 other smaller events with this deck:
2-0 4 Colour Delver
2-1 Welder Dack Fayden
2-1 Burn
2-1 Abzan Loam
2-1 Welder Dack Fayden
2-0 Esper Deathblade
2-0 UG Cloudpost
2-0 Werewolf Stompy
0-2 Infect
2-0 UB Omnishow
2-0 Jeskai Delver
2-1 Burn
So altogether I am:
14-3-0 last few weeks.
Some of my Sunday night Legacy matches can be found on https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDH...n42paGjfQe06XQ some other games played by me that are on there are Cheeri0s, Meathooks and Temur Delver.
Is anybody up for some playtesting on MTGO in the next days? I want to test the impact of the green splash in D&T for Gaddock Teeg in the Elves match-up. Beating newbies who are still learning the deck isn't exactly providing genuine data, so I'm looking for more experienced Elves players.
If anyone is interested, feel free to add me: _barook_
Went 3-1 at the weekly local event. Beat Infect, and 2 Storm losing to Jeskai Delver. multiple meddling mages is annoying naming Decay so you can can't kill the Jitte and Natural Order so you can't just win. Didn't draw any of my Needles or Null Rod oh well.
@Julian23
Thank you for posting your updated list. Looking forward to your full report. Sorry to hear about the event. 2 hour delay sounds not fun.
Will have to try your build at some point. I like the Meekstones tech. I been on the blue splash since Zendikar and Spell Pierce since my local meta has a decent amount of blue based combo running Brainstorms so discard is not always effective.
@Kronicler
If running Julian's 75, I would probably board like this against 4 color Delver. Not sure I even want 4 Thoughtseize vs Bolts and Deathrites.
+3 Abrupt Decay +3 Thoughtseize
-2 Heritage Druid, -2 Nettle Sentinel, -1 Reclamation Sage -1 Glimpse of Nature
I still on the Progenitus plan vs Delver it can be hard to get enough Elves for hoof between bolts and decays.
Glimpse is still decent value if you cut down on Nettle Sentinel and Heritage Druid so I wouldn't cut all of them. Its also bait for them to Force of Will or burn Spell Pierce on so you can resolve a Natural Order to win so I wouldn't cut all of them.
@Krasman
Thank you for the report.
how has bloodmoon been doing for you?
Bloodmoon just doesn't seem nearly as good when you can't play it turn 1 like out of Imperial Painter or Sneak and Show and win if they run no basics and have no counter. Later they can fetch for basics and have more counters up and can float mana for Decay/Golgari Charm.
I was considering Elderscale Wurm for GP NJ actually since there supposedly will be a glut of burn since it is the cheap deck and I have no byes. Being on the draw vs burn and if they can get out their Eidelon before you can play enough elves is miserable.
@Barook
I test on MTGO, I added you my MTGO name is Arianeira. Be happy to test.
Honestly I don't think green splash is worth it in Death and Taxes. How are you doing it exactly? Fetches lower your land count making it harder to hard cast Batterskull and Savanah is vulnerable to wasteland.
Couple death and Taxes players I know uped their Spirit of the Labrynth and Aven Mindcensor count to 2 each with more in the board. It sounds like a better plan since Spirit nerfs Treasure Cruise in addition to Glimpse and Aven Mindcensor nerfs Natural Order and Zenith without dipping into another color.
Bloodmoon has really been hit or miss; I have locked out and won quite a few games with it against Delver variants and other decks that cheat on basics. Then there are other matches it comes out to late and hurts me more then them. I have since cut it out this week and didn't really miss it.
I have had a lot of success against burn with MD Ruric Thar; Wurm is something I eventually plan on trying as there are 1-2 burn decks that play locally. Eidolon is annoying if they are on the play and get it out T2... I have upped my Reclamation Sage count to 3 in the 75 and it has helped.
Hey all. So my meta has about equal parts of mavric/dnt amd combo so I was thinking of instead of 2 hoof and ruic/packmaster maybe go 1/1/1. thoughts?
The more Death&Taxes you face, the more Hoof you want. Ruric gets sided out against D&T and Packmaster is also not very good against them because of Revoker; it's ok but not stellar.
Hardcasting Hoof on the other hand, is one of your main gameplans. Especially with Progenitus hossed and D&T eventually adopting Cages in their sideboard, hardcasting the Behemoth has often enough been my only path to victory. I would say that D&T is a great matchup for justifying 2 Hoofs.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
In a heavy D&T/combo metagame I'd leave Packmaster home. 2 Hoofs, 1 Ruric. If most of the combo isn't Storm/High Tide, just leave Ruric home altogether and maybe play a 4th NO for extra speed and a freed SB slot if you still run it in the board.
For Maverick I find at least where I play that they have 2 Gaddock Teegs in the 75 (1 main) and at first chance will GSZ for Teeg; would it make more sense to drop the Natural Orders in the matchup? I know Progenitus is unbeatable unless they run Council's Judgment, but I have found countless games where I lost to Teeg and had a hand flush with Natural Orders and GSZ.
Julian - any thoughts on playing and boarding for the 4C delver matchup? Thanks!
Team Info-Ninjas: Catchphrases so secret, I don't even know what they are!
How is everyone else faring in the post treasure cruise world? I think the adoption of the card is going to make a lot of matchups hard for us. It makes the delver game very hard to win even when we get to go long and safely transition to the midgame. It gives a lot of the deck we can otherwise grind out a comparable (in terms of quantity) drawing engine to the BFF combo.
Does the card affect Elves at all? DRS + Symbiote/Quirion can control the Graveyard very well and you can mainboard Ooze once more. Unless people seriously begin to run hate like Chains of Mephistopheles or playsets of Spirit of the Labyrinth, I don't even see a reason to react at all.
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I can see two of them (not sure they will matter that much though)..
UR delver will be more played and it is a bad MU. TC did not make it harder as they dropped some grim to put them in, but facing them often will be hard.
And second, as a way to fight young pyromancer, we cannot excpect a drop of -1/-1 effects / cheap wraths.
Pyromancer is flavor of the week. I doubt it sticks long in lists if Forked Bolt is played in Delver-mirrors. As you can still fog the Swiftspear, I don't see the sky falling even against Bobs UR Delver variant which I feel isn't even THE shell for TC.
Grab a cup of tea and a cookie, watching how people try to battle TC with graveyard-hate and MB Pyroblasts, while you already have the perfect tools to fight the TC-metagame and sidestep the hate
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