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Thread: [Primer] Elves!

  1. #4001
    itsJulian.com - Legacy Videos
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Streaming the Legacy Daily Event with #Elves! - Join us over at http://twitch.tv/itsJulian

    @Worldspine Wurm: It's pretty much dedicated hate for the SneakShow matchup.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  2. #4002

    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Streaming the Legacy Daily Event with #Elves! - Join us over at http://twitch.tv/itsJulian

    @Worldspine Wurm: It's pretty much dedicated hate for the SneakShow matchup.
    I also think of it as the anti-Toxic Deluge card. So for various BUG/Jund decks it's a good board card to have.

  3. #4003
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Damn you Julian. My brain's now playing "Hit the road Jack" nonstop :'(
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  4. #4004

    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by theross View Post
    Please don't bring in Sylvan Library against any Delver deck. Even UWR with its heavy removal suite is ultimately a Delver deck since it plays so few threats and so many conditional counters. You can't afford to spend the life to gain cards immediately, and you don't have time to leverage the card otherwise. Sylvan comes in against midrange decks (Esper, Shardless) and Miracles. Unless Delver decks start bringing out their Delvers and playing a slower game just bring in your Decays and possibly an Ooze.
    Against BUG Delver/Team America style decks, Sylvan Library wins games. That's a matchup I've played literally hundreds of times, and I'm telling you, with the way those games grind out, card selection and some timely extra card draw are just huge. Just on Friday I won a match against BUG Delver on the back of a Library. Paid a total of 12 life and got nearly all of it back with Ooze and Deathrite. Finding Abrupt Decay for 4 life is always better than just dying to an insect, anyway.

  5. #4005

    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by mariobross View Post
    In which metch-up you use Worldspine Wurm? And why?
    Thanks for your help
    Sneak and Show, for the simple reason that it invalidates Emrakul. Also not a bad NO/GSZ target against the white Blade decks. Personally, I don't like it much, since it's only relevant in a very narrow set of circumstances--it would have been better in an older Summoning Pact build--but a lot of people who know the deck perfectly well do seem to like it, so it's worth trying out to see if it works for you.

  6. #4006
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Wurm vs. Plowshares decks? wut?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  7. #4007

    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    Wurm vs. Plowshares decks? wut?
    Your input was extremely insightful. Thank you for clearing that up.

  8. #4008
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    I'm just confused. Why play Wurm vs. StP decks? It's great against S&T and against Decay/Toxic Deluge type setups and is roughly equivalent to Progenitus everywhere else. Except against StP, where it just gets killed unceremoniously and just isn't all that scary for how much it costs to NO/GSZ into play. StP decks are full stop Wurm's worst matchup, so why are you recommending it for those?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  9. #4009
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Men, these questions about wurm are starting to seem a bit dumb (without the intention to offend anyone). It really is just obvious: wurm is good against emrakul and against decks running board wipes but not swords to plowshares/terminus (mainly B/G/x). Spending or not a sideboard slot for him is meta call/personal preference. Maybe something about wurm should be added to the front page so people stop asking why some lists run him?

  10. #4010
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    SCG Indianapolis (2nd SCG Open this weekend; not covered unfortunately) has twice the number of Elvish Visionary (16) in the Top8 than it has Brainstorms (8).

    /Edit: Top4 is 4 Elves.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  11. #4011
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    What? That's cool. How big is the event?
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
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    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
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    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  12. #4012

    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    SCG Indianapolis (2nd SCG Open this weekend; not covered unfortunately) has twice the number of Elvish Visionary (16) in the Top8 than it has Brainstorms (8).

    /Edit: Top4 is 4 Elves.

    Great! Hopefully we will have new sideboard choices to argue about...

    http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...ion=Show+Decks

    Oh my god what is energy storm even?

  13. #4013
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    It's funny to see that the three "regular" lists in that top 4 each ran 4 NO. I was surprised to see another list running Probes though.

    Either the Probes & Blood Moons can actually be a thing, or it was a rather Elf-friendly meta. I do like the idea of peeking at your opponent's hand right before you NO to see if it's safe to do so.

    Energy Storm seems pretty awesome, it pretty much singlehandedly shuts down RUG. The current oracle text states that instants and sorceries don't do any damage at all anymore (so not even to creatures). Cradle makes it's cumulative upkeep easier to deal with. Too bad it doesn't work against storm though and we can't tutor it.

    I wonder against which MU's other then any UR Delver variants and Burn, obviously, (and perhaps LED Dredge to shut down Firestorm) he'd side it in.

  14. #4014
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Am I the only one seeing 1 Sylvan Caryatid in TWO of the Elves sideboards in the Top8? Must be a mistake, right?
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  15. #4015
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Am I the only one seeing 1 Sylvan Caryatid in TWO of the Elves sideboards in the Top8? Must be a mistake, right?
    Almost certainly Sylvan Library.

  16. #4016
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthepit View Post
    Almost certainly Sylvan Library.
    That's what I thought.

  17. #4017
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Hi everyone,

    after a break, i am also back with elves. Sleeved the deck up last week and conquered top 4 in a small (15 player) local tournament.

    After the warm up i played another local event (32 players) yesterday going 5-1-0, 2nd place. It was a "Eternal Prague" Trial so we played six rounds. One more player and i had earned 1 Bye...

    Matchups:


    R1: 2:0 vs Death & Taxes (Ruric fought some flyers )
    R2: 1:2 vs Miracle (last game only one life was left...)
    R3: 2:1 vs Team America (Packmaster!)
    R4: 2:1 vs Miracle (tight as always)
    R5: 2:1 vs BUGw Control (full with the new Delve Spells, but Packmaster won G3 alone)
    R6: 2:0 vs Affinity (he never had a chance against my miracle hate)

    In a meta filled with lots of D&T, Miracle and BUG Elves was a decent choice, because i was prepared to fight miracle and other grindy matchups.

    Decklist:

    Maindeck - see Julian's latest list with all the grindy stuff. A last minute swap was -1 Craterhoof (cause i also played successfully with only one in the past), -1 fetch and +1 Ruric with +1 Taiga.

    Sideboard:
    1 Reclamation Sage
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Null Rod
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
    2 Cabal Therapy
    3 Thoughtseize

    The bad ass ogre was good enough on it own, won me a matchup vs D&T flyers (i know very uncommon scenario), was able to pressure a matchup against miracle and was generally a good feeling to have him as a maindeck weapon if i face some combo decks.

    With the grindy Packmaster (i really like her), it curved out smoothly: 2 mana Ooze, 4 mana, Packmaster, 6 mana Ruric, 8 mana Craterhoof

    All have standalone power and can turn over some games.

    As other of you already mentioned, against miracle you must grind them out, 2-3 power after each wipe is enough. I really liked the 2nd Arbor (hold up fetches) and Pendelhaven here. I felt that Pendelhaven is one of the key cards here. If i got the land early enough, it really helped to kill miracle fast enough between the common removal waves.
    The 2nd Reclamation Sage also performed well enough; because each body/beater counts (compared to another decay). Null Rod and Needle are common tools and i like them paired to gain advantage in other matchups (needle won me a game against Deed).

    Wilt-Leaf Liege is a tech against BUG, which supports all other grindy matchup. In germany, most players know, that Grafdigger's Cage is a good weapon against elves - so the common NO + Progenitus etc. plan will be easily stopped. Maybe we see some other graveyard hate pieces (who doesnt affect elves), in a meta full with Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise...
    Last edited by MD.Ghost; 09-29-2014 at 01:47 PM.
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  18. #4018

    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    So I ran the following list at the SCG Open in NJ this weekend. After starting off 4-0 (including 2 miracles wins!), I got a draw against Gerard Fabiano in the 5th round, luck turned against me and I ended up 5-3-1 to barely make the cash. I played the following list:

    Creatures (31)
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Quirion Ranger
    4 Elvish Visionary
    4 Wirewood Symbiote
    3 Heritage Druid
    3 Nettle Sentinel
    2 Birchlore Rangers
    2 Craterhoof Behemoth
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Wren's Run Packmaster
    1 Reclamation Sage
    2 Dryad Arbor

    Lands (18)
    2 Forest
    2 Bayou
    1 Pendelhaven
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Windswept Heath
    3 Wooded Foothills
    4 Gaea's Cradle

    Spells (11)
    4 Glimpse of Nature
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Natural Order

    Sideboard
    1 Null Rod
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Worldspine Wurm
    1 Progenitus
    1 Natural Order
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy

    My match results:
    2-2 Miracles
    1-0 BG Rock
    1-0-1 BG Delver
    0-1 Jund
    1-0 Something I forget. Probably another BUG deck.

    Some overall thoughts on the tournament:
    - The list (Julian's) felt really strong, but I still go back and forth on the Packmaster. I actually like it most in the BUG matchup, but I'm not impressed in the miracles match-up which is the match-up I want the card to cover. I'm not sure what I'm going to do for the next tourney, but I feel like the other 59/60 are what I want. I'm considering adding the 4th NO and putting a real dedicated anti-miracles card in that SB slot.
    - I absolutely love Lantto's strategy against miracles. My ideal board state is Wirewood, Quirion Ranger, Dryad Arbor, Pendelhaven, Needle on Top, and a Sylvan Library (and with an AD in hand is icing on the cake). I won game 3 against miracles when he was at 2 life and had Jace and like 4 cards in hand, by going EOT fetch Arbor and then attack and pump with Pendelhaven. Felt amazing. I'm considering not bringing in the NO-Pro package since it's a liability.
    - My match against Gerard Fabiano (playing BUG Delver) was a feature match (my first match on camera though it didn't air), and they were great games and he was a great opponent. The first game I forced him to use his resources on my terms, which allowed me to resolve a NO for the win. During game 3, time was getting low and I think he had 1 creature and was at very low life (3-5), while I had 2 guys and a natural order. During the 2nd and 4th turns of extra turns, any mana source would have allowed me to win the game. Even though we drew, we talked about the match afterward and he showed me he would have had the mana to hardcast FoW next turn. So it really would have been anyone's game at that point. Very fun match.
    - I played against Rudy Briksza in (I think) the 4th round. In game 1, he had a board of Delver, Deathrite and Goyf, and just resolved a Treasure Cruise. He was tapped out, so I draw and cast Glimpse of Nature. The way he says OK tell me I can do what I want this turn, so I being to combo off. At some point he calls a judge over. He tells the judge that I missed the draw trigger from Glimpse when I played a creature. The judge tells him it's a beneficial trigger for me, so he can choose whether I have it but it isn't a warning or anything. I don't draw and we continue. At another point, he tells me I missed more draw triggers. I was trying to remember them, but I had played two Glimpses and we are now at the point where I probably have over 20 creatures in play, have activated 4 Wirewoods, have had a 10-15 minute single turn, and was playing off 3 hours sleep and not eating in 7 hours. He calls a judge and I tell the judge that I honestly don't know but that he's probably right. The judge tells him again, he chooses but it's not a warning. He appeals the the head judge who talks to me off to the side, then Rudy. He walks back to his seat and says "Go." I ask him what happened, and he said nothing is going to happen. I finally draw a NO (because I was not sandbagging him, I really hadn't draw a way to kill him yet) and finish him off. We go to game two and I smash him with a turn 4 NO I believe. His friend comes over and he quickly comments how I got the perfect draw. When your opponent clearly tries to scumbag you and get a win off a rules violation when they were clearly beneficial triggers (I wasn't decking myself ) and he was clearly going to lose, and then you smash him 2-0, that's what magic is all about.
    - One fun highlight came against eventual 4th place finisher Steve Guillerm playing miracles. It was one of those miracles matches where they play well and have control of the match the whole time. The way he said "Yes" to my actions was almost making me feel bad for wasting his time with the formalities. But I'm one of those players that wants to play every bit of a match even when I'm losing, because I don't get to play much and want as much experience each time I do get to play. Anyway, I think he has Jace, G. Cage and I think a top in play with 2 cards in hand. He passes the turn and I go for the hail mary NO assuming he has a terminus in time even if I get a Progenitus. You caught it right? I realize there is a Cage in play as soon as I finish saying NO and put the card on the table. Just as I feel like the worst player ever, I look up and my opponent is exiling a card. He casts FoW pitching FoW. He puts his cards away, looks up and says "We're both really stupid ya know." I say, "Yeah, Cage." We both laugh and he finishes me at some point by casting an Asian, foil Entreat. At least I got killed by something pretty.
    - After my match with Gerard, I turned around and saw Ross Merriam. I had thought to myself that if I happen to bump into him, I was going to have him sign an elf card I had in my binder and tell him to keep up with the great writing. We end up talking Elves with some other person and we ended up agreeing on all the strategy points we were talking about. Great to meet another cool Elves player. (Julian don't be surprised if you get asked to sign an elf at GP NJ )
    - In a weirdly masochistic way, I enjoy the post-sideboard miracles games. They can be really fun and skill-intensive. But the pre-board games are so upsetting that I don't want to ever see it in a tournament. Ever.
    Last edited by MadRhetoric17; 10-01-2014 at 10:55 AM.

  19. #4019
    DocteurGabe
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    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    TIL : When you want to tell Julian to fuck off, you simply say "Go Lose to Miracle".

    Julian list is sound and tested. Im so glad so many elves decks made Top 4. They covered the wrong open IMHO.
    Im curious about what Julian will sleeve for NJ....!? :D
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I facepalm so hard in Public that hipsters gonna make this a new trend

  20. #4020

    Re: [DTB] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by theross View Post
    Please don't bring in Sylvan Library against any Delver deck. Even UWR with its heavy removal suite is ultimately a Delver deck since it plays so few threats and so many conditional counters. You can't afford to spend the life to gain cards immediately, and you don't have time to leverage the card otherwise. Sylvan comes in against midrange decks (Esper, Shardless) and Miracles. Unless Delver decks start bringing out their Delvers and playing a slower game just bring in your Decays and possibly an Ooze.
    Ross: any chance you will do an elves primer on SCG before the GP in NJ?

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