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Thread: [Primer] Elves!

  1. #2961
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Because the outcome would be the same without the current wording of GSZ. Someone would walk off after the game with your cards in there deck.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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  2. #2962
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Streaming the Legacy Daily Event with Elves! Join us at http://twitch.tv/itsJulian!
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  3. #2963
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Played in my LGS's monthly legacy event this past weekend, it was a little on the small size with only 16 players, but fun anyway. I still need to obtain my 4th cradle. In the meantime this list played very well. I might add 1 more Birchlore over the llanowar elves. A Birchlore and Nettle Sentinel Is really good. I went 4-0 wining a Liliana of the Veil and 45$ store credit.
    went with this deck list:
    Creatures: 33
    1 Fyndhorn Elves
    1 Llanowar Elves
    1 Viridian Shaman
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Birchlore Rangers
    1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
    2 Craterhoof Behemoth
    2 Dryad Arbor
    3 Heritage Druid
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Elvish Visionary
    4 Nettle Sentinel
    4 Quirion Ranger
    4 Wirewood Symbiote
    Spells 11
    3 Natural Order
    4 Glimpse of Nature
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    Lands 16
    1 Taiga
    2 Bayou
    2 Forest
    1 Wooded Foothills
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Windswept Heath
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Gaea's Cradle
    Sideboard
    1 Progenitus
    3 Cabal Therapy
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Mindbreak trap
    1 Natural Order
    1 Null Rod
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Choke

    Round 1 - vs Tin Fins
    Game 1: On the play opened with a DRS t1 and t2. Opponents starts to set up his hand digging with ponders and brainstorms. I Natural Order into a Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, to my opponents surprise, he was expecting and not lethal Hoof. Opponent concedes anyway.
    I side in some hand disruption
    Game 2: Same sort playing from us both setting up our combos, I hoof for lethal on turn 4.

    1-0

    Round 2 - vs Affinity
    Game 1: Opponents vomits his hand turn 1. Turn 2 swings in with a plating and master in play. Lost very fast.
    I side in Abrupt decays, null rod and pithing needle
    Game 2: I turn 1 Nettle Sentinel, pass turn. Opponent vomits his hand again, though it wasn't as dangerous as game 1. I'm able to keep him in check until a lethal hoofing occurs.
    Game 3: Opponents adjusts sideboards decisions and double thoughtseizes me turn 1, discarding a natural order and quirion ranger, leaving a heritage druid and 4 lands 1 being a cradle. I top deck well and Hoof him again ftw.

    2-0

    Round 3 - vs Elves mirror (Opponent playing with swan song and 4 Cradles, otherwise similar list to mine)
    Game 1: I'm on the play and begin setting up my board with Nettle sentinels and Quirion Rangers. Opponent was also setting up his board with dryad arbors and mana elves, he's able to natural order first and grabs a Ruric Thar, the Unbowed (Hoof was not lethal) thinking he would win the grind. Next turn I take 6 damage playing a Glimpse and combo off casting a Hoof for lethal.
    I only sideboard in an extra natural order, thinking being more consistent was better (opponent was siding in many cards)
    Game 2: Sideboard plan seemed to work, I was able to glimpse into a natural order for another lethal Hoofing.

    3-0 - the only 3-0 player and playing for 1st even a loss here would put me in 3rd.

    Round 4 - vs Pox (opponent record 2-0-1)
    Game 1: Match is a little blurry, but ended up winning with a Craterhoof. I remember it being a little grinding as a pox match would be.
    I sideboard in pithing needle, null rod and thoughseize.
    Game 2: This game was painful, opponent plays a Liliana of the veil turn 1 and it was a downward spiral for me from there. Game loss was slowly inevitable.
    Game 3: I start to set up my board while navigating through edict effects and some hand disruption. Opponent inquisitions me stripping a thoughtseize. He didnt want be taking hid neither void or engineered plague lol. I'm able to get a natural order off with the help of 2 cradles and swinging in for 16 damage getting he to 2 life. Opponent takes his turn and doesn't draw into any out and extends a hand.

    4-0 wining the event!
    All in all elves is a very fun and rewarding deck and plan to invest in that 4th cradle ASAP. I'm going to change the sideboard up a little bit, but like where the maindeck is.
    Some of the other decks I saw at the event were show and tell, BUG delver and shardless, counter-top/miracles, this 10 land mono green thing, the gate, high tide and this stoneforge deck that the sword of the meek combo in it.

  4. #2964
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Got the outline completed on my madness (Ref : Elves! Tattoo earlier in that thread).
    Shit looks crazy

    Pics later.
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  5. #2965
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by domajm32 View Post
    (...)
    Round 4 - vs Pox (...)
    Game 1: Match is a little blurry, but ended up winning with a Craterhoof. I remember it being a little grinding as a pox match would be.
    I sideboard in pithing needle, null rod and thoughseize.
    Game 2: This game was painful, opponent plays a Liliana of the veil turn 1 and it was a downward spiral for me from there. Game loss was slowly inevitable.
    Game 3: I start to set up my board while navigating through edict effects and some hand disruption. Opponent inquisitions me stripping a thoughtseize. He didnt want be taking hid neither void or engineered plague lol. I'm able to get a natural order off with the help of 2 cradles and swinging in for 16 damage getting he to 2 life. Opponent takes his turn and doesn't draw into any out and extends a hand.
    (...).
    Hey, congrats man!

    As I mentioned on my previous post, I lost a TOP 4 match against POX last Sunday.
    I'm looking for some tips on this MU, like: what do you think is important there; which play lines to follow; and SB'ing.

    I think I sideboarded like this:

    • IN: NO#4, Prog (against his creature removals), 2x Needles (against Wasteland), 3x Thoughtseize (against his mass removals/general hate, e.g. Night of Soul's Betrayal)
    • OUT: Ruric, Viridian Shaman, 2x Glimpse, 2x Heritage Druid, E. Visionary


    What do you think?

    The thing is: I didn't like how my games played after SB. I was really choked on mana because of, besides my mulliganing after "reliable" producing lands, I was hit hard by his constantly chaining of mana disruption effects, like: Smallpox; Sinkhole; Wasteland; and Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale;... so I got stuck with 2x NO and a Progenitus in my hand for several turns, falling a little more behind each time.
    Eventually, I couldn't recover when he got Tombstalker online.

    Oh, and why did you bring the Null Rod against POX?
    Aside from the Mishra's Factories "auto-pumping", I don't recall seeing any artifacts w/ activated abilities...


    Regards,

    - André

  6. #2966
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Thanks Andre! Yeah I forget to mention I did side in the 4th NO in the pox match as well as pithing needle for the man lands. null rod was in for the cursed scroll. I didn't run prog out there due to his over abundance of edict effects. My thought was with runic out there he'd have to take six to get rid of him and or sinkhole me.
    I was lucky in that the pox player did not have any tabernacles... Those would be hell.

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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    I can see Worldspine Wurm shine against pox ....
    I have no experience about the matchup though, and i'd like to hear from more experienced players if they value more glimpse of nature or natural order against pox. I guess that given the amount of disruption they have, it can be difficult sometimes to reach 4 mana, while a well-timed glimpse chain can win you the game.

  8. #2968

    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    The only time I played against Pox was at GPDC when I played against the BG variant. I had Thorn of Amethyst as my anti combo artifact at the time and that really slowed down his development when I was able to land it. Worldspine Wurm is probably a better target than Progenitus, but both do manage to get the job done. I would probably avoid bringing in discard, you tend to win the game by developing your board and keeping your hand full of cards via glimpse. I would emphasize that plan post board instead of diluting your deck with discard spells.

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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    I fully agree on not siding in discard against wasteland.deck.
    discard is most efficient T1, while you do not want to fetch bayou, especially against pox where you do not want abrupt decay either.

    I will side in only needle (mainly for liliana), NO-pro and wilt leaf liege if you have it. ScOoze too if you do not have it MD.
    I will side out one behemoth, Ruric, heritage.

  10. #2970
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    IRT playing against POX:

    Thanks for the comments!

    I forgot I had seen a Cursed Scroll from POX too. It appeared only in the end of the game, when he had already won. Is it worth to leave/bring the Viridian Shaman in for this (and for any other 'annoyances', like Bottled Cloister)?

    Needles seem indeed very valuable, between facing Wasteland, Mishra's Factory, Cursed Scrool and Liliana. It had such high value that my opponent promptly Inquisition'ed it ...

    You guys are right on pointing that Glimpse is a great way to recover CA here - maybe I just had the bad luck of being hit by so much discard that it felt awkward to discard Glimpse or to have no 'chainable' creatures for it to work.

    About not siding in my discard, the main issue was that I thought of it as an answer to Night of the Soul's Betrayal, which he had online very early on the games (powered by Dark Ritual), and that card simply wrecked my game (my only out to enchants. on my 75 are the 3x Abrupt Decays, that cannot touch it).
    I think it's harder to play around this card in comparison to Engineered Plague, for instance (Plague does not mess with Dryads and Symbiotes; and Decay can destroy it).

    Worldspine Wurm seems cool here, but I don't know if it can fit my SB (I'm not sure if I want to replace Progenitus with this, so I would need to free another slot). I read somewhere that the Wurm would also be nice against S&T. Anyone who has some experience with the Wurm could comment a bit on it's applications and your experience with it?

    Well... maybe I just need to practice a bit more against POX using the SB'ing you guys are recommending (+: NO#4, Progenitus, 2 Needle / -: Ruric, 1 Behemoth, 1 Heritage, 1 another elf <Viridian Shaman/Visionary?> ) ...


    Regards,

    - André

  11. #2971
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Hello,

    First, Night of the Soul's Betrayal is not a common card in pox. I checked and see only one in MD + SB considering the 6 lasts decks on both the POX thread on this website and on mtgtop8.
    So, except if you know for sure your opponent is playing more than one, I do not think that bringing discards and exposing you to wasteland is worth it for this lone copy. You could have be beaten up by this powered out early by dark ritual twice, but it's probably just bad luck. POX games tend to go for the long run and awful topdecks like discards are really bad.


    Quote Originally Posted by andrebonotto View Post
    IRT playing against POX:
    I forgot I had seen a Cursed Scroll from POX too. It appeared only in the end of the game, when he had already won. Is it worth to leave/bring the Viridian Shaman in for this (and for any other 'annoyances', like Bottled Cloister)?
    - André
    Yes, it is woth keeping it in

    Quote Originally Posted by andrebonotto View Post
    IRT playing against POX:
    Worldspine Wurm seems cool here, but I don't know if it can fit my SB (I'm not sure if I want to replace Progenitus with this, so I would need to free another slot). I read somewhere that the Wurm would also be nice against S&T. Anyone who has some experience with the Wurm could comment a bit on it's applications and your experience with it?
    Well, Worldspine Wurm is a good NO-target. It is better than Progenitus versus every non-stp MU. But only marginally better, generally Progenitus is winning as well once it gets online. And you really want it (proge) against miracle, UWR-delver, D&T, every blade variant, ... So to my mind Progenitus should be in your SB, no matter what. It is your main gameplan against so much things. And adding Worldspine Wurm as an aditional NO-target in SB against Liliana.deck is a wasted slot. Again these decks, I always felt Wilt-Leaf Liege to be way better, as it is an answer to golgari charmm, plague (even your Night of the Soul's Betrayal) and it is a GSZ target. But even it is not always enough to make the cut.

    Regards,
    David

  12. #2972
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Gathering Elves-masterminds for a state-of-the-art podcast! #WeWantDan
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    #WeWantDan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I facepalm so hard in Public that hipsters gonna make this a new trend

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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Seem like this thread is dying.
    What's shaking guys?
    No ideas?
    What would you change in the MD?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I facepalm so hard in Public that hipsters gonna make this a new trend

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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kayradis View Post
    Seem like this thread is dying.
    What's shaking guys?
    No ideas?
    What would you change in the MD?
    Why bother? Every suggestion made seems to be met by something along the lines of "Meh, it can't possibly be better then what we have now, so just don't".

    This thread is doomed.

  16. #2976
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Why bother? Every suggestion made seems to be met by something along the lines of "Meh, it can't be better then what we have now, so just don't".

    This thread is doomed.
    Funny, because I have the impression that not even 30min of thinking and evaluating is put into some suggestions before being posted on the last 20 pages. "Can we play card x?" is no base for a discussion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I have the impression that
    Thank you for highlighting my point.

    Also...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    "Can we play card x?" is no base for a discussion
    Neither is simply stating "No". People like to forget this works both ways.

  18. #2978

    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    I've been running a sideboard with 3 Pithing Needle and 1 Null Rod, along with a 3 Thoughtseize/2 Cabal Therapy discard package, and was curious how to sideboard against Miracles.

    The cards in the SB that I definitely want are 3 Abrupt Decay, Null Rod, and X Pithing Needles.

    In Julian's SB guide, he advocates 2 Needles, 2 Seize, NO+Progenitus, and 3 Abrupt Decay.

    Since current sideboarding has more Needles/Null Rod, is the extra Needle and a Null Rod going to be more effective than the 2 Thoughtseize?

  19. #2979
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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Neither is simply stating "No". People like to forget this works both ways.
    Now that's a strange way to discuss. We have a working shell (that possibly needs more stability in the current metagame) people come up with ideas without giving any founded reasoning for inclusion of cards and want them to be discussed and now it should be my duty to find counterarguments for some more or less random cards named?

    Pal, every time a green fatty is spoilered it is suggested for elves because of NO and GSZ without adressing up- & downsides or any relevant topics. I certainly have better to do than writing an essay about "why card x is inferior to card y or why x has no use at all" after people drop a one-liner and a picture of the card. I know no other archetype which is discussed in such a way.

    Hell, there wasn't even a real discussion about Decay vs. krosan Grip which was a topic on the last pages with waging advantages of the one or another now that Night of Souls Betrayal, moat and Humility see some play

    Quote Originally Posted by shopshopshop View Post
    Since current sideboarding has more Needles/Null Rod, is the extra Needle and a Null Rod going to be more effective than the 2 Thoughtseize?
    These cards don't even necessarily adress the same decks. You should ask yourself if you expect more Miracles or more Storm/Show&Tell for your tournament even if needle (griselbrand) and Rod (LED) can help against the combo decks. The artifacts are worse against combo overall but fullfil double-duty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

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    Re: [Deck] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Why bother? Every suggestion made seems to be met by something along the lines of "Meh, it can't possibly be better then what we have now, so just don't".

    This thread is doomed.
    The deck ebbs and flows. People these days seam more content to test, then suggest over talk first and debate. I think that's a good thing.

    Also, solid suggestions are solid, but you need to be able to say "X is better than Y in this way, for these reasons and it helps the deck overall in this fashion". Instead what I see a lot of is "Hay, X has just been spoiled, it's green and beats for a ton, fits right in the deck yes?". To those people, no really is the best answer.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
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    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

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