Today i was playing miracles.... i played 6 games against elves and now i know why i have so bad statistics against miracles...
i feel confidant all the time, cose all the time i had enough answers.. swords, terminus, force, counterspell, counterbalance... just keep throwing this bomb to his face.
And mentor is just nail to the coffin....
I really admire those who beating miracles..
So as I am sure we are all aware, Reanimator is a terrible matchup for us. Is there any tech that might be good to possibly tilt the matchup in our favor? Clip Wings might be good once it is released but is it worth considering diabolic edict? Or just jam more discard effects?
Also does Nissa seem worth a go? She pumps the team, gets around Counterbalance, and turns on Cradles. The only downside I see to her is she doesnt really establish overwhelming board presence, and we potential lose out on the +1/+1 counters when we bounce our elves.
Last edited by jjkbb2005; 03-10-2016 at 04:41 AM.
Elves! doesn't run Go for the Throat either. Make of that what you will.Originally Posted by jjkbb2005
That being said, if you find it a problem in your meta you can always try them. I think Diabolic Edict would be better though. It also gets rid of Emrakul vs. S&T and Tin Fins.
Lost badly to Grixis Pyromancer.
The pilot was more experienced though, and it was 3-1 9in my favor) before sideboard and like 7-2 in his favor after.
I asked what was his sideboard plan, and here it is: 2 Disfigures, 1 Darkblast (didn't see it at all), some extra Dazes, other single-target removal (no Toxic Deluges or any other mass-removal). He sided out 2-3 Ponders and 2-3 Gitaxian Probes.
Not what i expected, but still a plan.
All games were very similar: He had a hand full of cantrips and managed to FoW my 2nd-3rd-4th turn Glimpse/NO (into progenitus), stifled some fetches, disfigured some symbiotes, wastelanded cradles. I cannot say that I made any mistakes really. HE WAS JUST A LITTLE BIT FASTER :(
Now about the SB:
Packmaster is very slow. And the championed creature can get a disfigured.
Sylvan library is in the main. If it's not countered, it's stifled, if not stifled, he has 2 Bolts in hand, after i draw extra crads - very slow.
Marsh casualties. Omg if only this card was an instant...
Didn't get a lot of Abrupt Decays and Cabal therapies in hand, but still too slow.
Didn't have Chokes in that SB, maybe Choke was an option, I don't know.
I sided-out something like 2 glimpse, 1 visionary, 1 quirion, 1 nettle, 1 birchlore, 1 NO, 1 Cradle, 1 heritage (currently playing 4 copies).
Is there something I am doing completely wrong? Any advices, guys?
Btw, how do you link the card name with an image? )
Special Forces Combo Elves
Packmaster IMO should not stay, alot of the time you will be operating with only 1-2 lands, and a 4-mana creature with only one other creature to champion is not a solid plan (Im guessing this is usually the case).
Fetching when he is tapped out is key, and more importantly making sure to have both forests prevents us from running out of resources. You will have to lean heavily on wirewood, DRS, visionary, and ranger. As ranger protects your lands, wirewood/visionary allows you card draw, and DRS keeps you afloat. You should be siding out 2 heritage, and go down to 2 NO (especially on the draw). Library is especially good in the MU and shouldnt be cut as it allows us to keep up in terms of card advantage.
You should be sandbaggin your Cradles, and only using them when you need to. If you can consistently replay your forest (via ranger) save you cradle for your big glimpse/NO turn.
Im not a huge fan of casualties as Nettle is usually better at clogging up the ground (Pendelhaven is also good land to have if you can get it to stick). Also maybe consider Elderscale Wurm in your SB as Grixis usually has no way to deal with it.
I usually cut the therapies/thoughtseizes on the draw, and mainly just try to grind them out (this could be wrong)
Chokes aren't really worth the extra spot for this MU, as they usually end up stuck in your hand.
Miracles have not-so-much target removals: 4 swords, that's it.
Miracles don't interact with our hand: keep 2-3 creatures and a glimpse/order/zenith in your hand and make 2-3 damage swings at them.
Choke, Sylvan library, Ruric-Thar and Shaman of the Pack are soooo good in this matchup. Gaddog Teeg is worth siding too, cuz it prevents you from Terminus, Wrath, Entreat and Jace - no wincons, until they find StP.
I don't think that cutting all 4 Orders and 2 Behemoths is an option. I often cut 2 NO and 1 Behemoth (+1 Ruric and 2 Chokes)
Special Forces Combo Elves
+ 3x Snapcasetr + 1x Council´s Judgment => 8x target removal
Then he place counterbalance, and your entire hand instead of zenith... are deadcards. Zenith get force/counterspell
After SB you have to be prepared against Vendilion Clique, so your hand is not 100% save
Choke is a killer, but if opponent expect it, just fetch for plains, place karakas... its not 100% but very strong SB piece, eats and clean your way
Sylvan Library - yea, when u manage to place it t2, your chance to win are much much MUCH better - drive me to play second piece in SB
Gaddog Teeg - swords... elves arent DnT with mothers, Sylvan safekeeper pop up in my mind now again...
Ruric - I love this card, but i saw him win this MU only once... you have to be sure, opponent dont have removal in hand and its helpful if he dont have top to dig for some kind of removal...
but again.. in my experience he is in 90% just 6 damage to opponent...
Hi guys,
new here, and pretty new to Legacy Elves. I've just gotten myself the deck (spare for some duals I can always borrow, but I do plan on getting them eventually). I have been playing a proxied NO version, but with aquiring Cradle's, I've sleeved up the Chaos build (as I'm only missing the Duals and Karakas at this point). I've also been playing Modern Elves for a long time (way longer then when Collected Company entered Modern), so I'm not entirely new.
I'm running Julian's MCM Milan list (+1 Birchlore Ranger, -1 Llanowar Elves, everything else is an exact copy) and I've played yesterday for the first time (vs. Miracles). I've actually managed to pull a clean 2-0 (it should be noted my opponent isn't an experienced Legacy player, he's in the same boat I am, making the transition from Modern to Legacy).
My question for you guys: how do you sideboard (vs. Miracles, but also in general)? What I did yesterday was the following:
-3 Heritage Druid
-3 Nettle Sentinel
-1 Scavenging Ooze
+1 Null Rod
+2 Pithing Needle
+1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+3 Abrupt Decay
How do you feel about this? Sounds good? Or terribly wrong?
I have read sideboarding guides, but they are all writen for NO Elves...
Thanks in advance!
Sorry to be away for so long. I suppose that's another way to look at my question. There are lots of threats to the creatures on our board. Are we more likely to run into targeting spot removal or untargeting mass removal effects?
Seems like the right track to me. Elves seems to either board in anticipation of grindy games or combo fast games.
Against Miracles, usually best bet is to shave off on the combo aspects and keep in everything grindy and having to do with card advantage. Thus you never shave off Visionary or Symbiote, instead reducing things like Heritage Druid, Birchlore, Quirion Rangers, and Nettle Sentinel. Birchlores here might be important enough to keep in simply due to wanting to be able to play Thalia and Teeg.
I'd want to keep in the Ooze, that guy can prevent Snap-Swords and can present a decent clock on his own, depending on the circumstances. He sort of helps to not overextend. Maybe other players disagree there.
Surgical Extraction is nice to have against Miracles - save it for when they try to miracle a Terminus for the second time, and you can get it out of their hand (and the rest of the copies out of their deck) in response.
Iam thinking about this too....
Swords or terminus out of game... thats could be VERY helpful...
I can see your point. To be honest I didn't like boarding out Ooze, but I didn't see any alternative. That's my biggest issue. I would've loved boarding in Extraxtion as well but since boarding out Ooze was already a call I didn't like, I didn't saw any more cards to cut.
Do you mean there is actually a window where you can Extraction a GY Terminus, and therefore "countering" the Miracle Terminus (and removing the remaining one(s))? Explain please :)
Isn't surgical extraction on terminus a pipe dream?
I'm thinking that most of the time they terminus they already have top and counterbalance in play.
In a red splash version, Ive considered slaughter games. We could do nothing and then slaughter games once we reach 4 mana.
Yes, as soon as the opponent draws the miracle card, there is a miracle trigger which goes on the stack and can be responded to. The card is in their hand and if it is removed from their hand in response to this miracle trigger then they won't be able to cast it.
I've heard that MTGO is buggy and if the opponent has multiple Terminuses in hand, it won't indicate which one was miracle'd, and you can accidentally choose the wrong one. I'm not sure if that has been corrected since I heard about it.
I actually find Reanimator to be a pretty even matchup with DRS, unless they are making a Turn 2 Elesh Norn on the play. Last weekend I won the matchup 2-0, including a successful race against Iona on Green with a few elves in play. That said, turn 2 Elesh Norn isn't all that uncommon of a play, and it's pretty unbeatable. Anything you use to shore up the matchup should be based around trying to stop that from happening.
I don't agree with this, I find Choke to be an insane blowout in this MU. 4 mana can be tough, but 3 mana is very doable if you sandbag cradles and sequence your lands correctly. I also am not a big fan of Cabal Therapy in this matchup unless you are very intimately familiar with your opponent's build - it can be hard to hit the right things effectively, without knowing whether they are (like your friend) all-in on spot removal, or running one of several flavors of sweepers (Marsh Casualties, Electrickery, Pyroclasm, Engineered Explosives, Staticaster). I do bring in the thoughtseizes though, usually in place of something like Nettle Sentinel.
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Julian and Jan Legner are playing the mirror in the finals of Prague Eternal right now!
I am in agreement with you regarding Cabal therapies I've just seen Julian side them in a couple of times against Grixis delver and wanted to let EEk1TwEEk know that it is possible strategy used by some elves pilots. As for Choke, a lot of the time, especially on the draw, it doesn't have the impact I would expect. Having to deal with a flipped Delver and playing a choke when they have deathrite shamans isn't really going to help you when you are already behind (as I would rather save more spots for hard combo in my SB). I also wouldn't cut too many Nettles as it is very good at locking up the ground against YP.I don't agree with this, I find Choke to be an insane blowout in this MU. 4 mana can be tough, but 3 mana is very doable if you sandbag cradles and sequence your lands correctly. I also am not a big fan of Cabal Therapy in this matchup unless you are very intimately familiar with your opponent's build - it can be hard to hit the right things effectively, without knowing whether they are (like your friend) all-in on spot removal, or running one of several flavors of sweepers (Marsh Casualties, Electrickery, Pyroclasm, Engineered Explosives, Staticaster). I do bring in the thoughtseizes though, usually in place of something like Nettle Sentinel.
Last edited by jjkbb2005; 03-15-2016 at 02:02 AM.
Ok let's imagine a situation: it's your turn, u have a fetch and cabal therapy, you are playing with grixis pyromancer after sideboarding, obviously. He keeps all 7 cards. If you want to cast Therapy, what will you choose? DRS or Delver? Or bolt maybe? Or some cantrips, like brainstorm or ponder?
I mean, the opponent can keep a hand with either a fast 3 delver, bolt, bolt in hand, or a more "control" version with disfigures and decays, or some DrS and cantrips, or bolts, cantrips and pyromancers or any other variety of cards there.
And the pilot is aware, that you sideboard therapies, so he will not play cautiously, and will try to win by tempo, so casting therapies later will be less impactful on him.
I think thoughtseizes are better in this situation, but again, u don't want to lose 3 life (fetch-thoughtseize) T1 against a tempo deck.
Special Forces Combo Elves
I think the mistake here is bringing in therapy vs a delver deck.. but I can see argument for siding in 2~ copies.. I'd never fire it off on turn 1 or even 2 (unless the end of a glimpse chain to try and nab a sweeper). I think holding it for the turn you intend to win and strip out countermagic or instant speed interaction is better.
also.. @Capt4in: hope to dodge is the best answer for reanimator. The only other options are keeping hands with t1 DRS, surgical, or ways to get scooze in play by t2. Chances are unlikely they'll keep a hand slower than turn 2 elesh norn, so don't assume you can outrace them.. any hand without t2 elesh/gb probably has FOW.
hey guys,
have you seen Arlinn Kord?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/sh...50-arlinn-kord
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