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Thread: [Primer] Elves!

  1. #6021
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    B/c they make the cast-1-CMC-stuff-plan worse..?

    Oh, and b/c they're not as nice as yours. Obviously. Perhaps if we get Rebecca Guay to come up with an art for that Reclamation Sage...

    I'm still wondering why the 1 mana plan isn't just maindecking 4 Abrupt Decay. It's a much needed "fuck you" to so many things. Just toss out the Cradles and do it to it.
    Not sure if they'd fit - you'd have to stock up on 4 Heritage Druids and Nettle Sentinels to compensate. A couple maindeck Decays and more consistent Glimpses don't sound bad either way. A more Shardless-esque direction seems like a good place to go, anyway. And you'd have to slot in a land because even if Cradles suck, they're still the second land often enough.

    Cradle-less Chaos Elves, 61 cards:

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Llanowar Elves
    3 Quirion Ranger

    4 Elvish Visionary
    4 Wirewood Symbiote

    4 Nettle Sentinel
    4 Heritage Druid
    2 Birchlore Rangers


    1 Craterhoof Behemoth
    1 Wren's Run Packmaster
    1 Shaman of the Pack
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Scavenging Ooze

    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Glimpse of Nature
    1 Sylvan Library
    2 Abrupt Decay

    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Windswept Heath
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Bayou
    1 Savannah
    1 Forest

    3 Cavern of Souls
    1 Pendelhaven
    1 Dryad Arbor
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  2. #6022
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Lemnear is right about the fact, that Eldrazi is not an uncommon Matchup or random Tier2 stuff like MUD. While i knew both - Eldrazi and Elves - well enough i would say matchup can still be 50:50, because Elves aren't defeated with only Chalice @1, it still needs pressure like fast Seer/Smasher, some Removal and/or Wastelands (to avoid Decay/Sage).

    Cavern helps (against Eldrazi without Wastelands) against Chalice and Elves can still be a force on the field thanks to all the green dudes especially Best Friend Combo or stuff like Packmaster. You simply should be prepared to fight G1 against Chalice, because Chalice belongs to DtB section for a while

    I would recommend 1 Packmaster and 1 R. Sage Main and (at least) 1 more Sage at Side (Lemnear is right here, because a tutorable and cavernwise uncounterable removal on a stick for Chalice&Counterbalance is way better than one more Decay/answer that needs Splashcolor). The good news for Elves are, that DnT is DtB again and all the BGx decks (that are good vs Eldrazi/Stompy) are also good matchups for Elves. Thanks to Eldrazi performance Storm and other Combo Decks are on the decline.
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  3. #6023
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    B/c they make the cast-1-CMC-stuff-plan worse..?

    Oh, and b/c they're not as nice as yours. Obviously. Perhaps if we get Rebecca Guay to come up with an art for that Reclamation Sage...

    I'm still wondering why the 1 mana plan isn't just maindecking 4 Abrupt Decay. It's a much needed "fuck you" to so many things. Just toss out the Cradles and do it to it.
    Would Decays kill much more than Sages, given the later leaves behind a 2/2 body for Nettle/Symbiote/Cradle/Attack/etc?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  4. #6024
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    Would Decays kill much more than Sages, given the later leaves behind a 2/2 body for Nettle/Symbiote/Cradle/Attack/etc?
    Delvers, Gaddock Teeg and assorted other buggers (since we're talking about MD'ing them). It's rather that it can't be countered and costs 1 mana less. Running GSZ + 3 Sage = running GSZ + 1 Sage + 2 Abrupt Decay (to some extend, obviously). That 1 mana can be the difference between life and death.

  5. #6025
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Delvers, Gaddock Teeg and assorted other buggers (since we're talking about MD'ing them). It's rather that it can't be countered and costs 1 mana less. Running GSZ + 3 Sage = running GSZ + 1 Sage + 2 Abrupt Decay (to some extend, obviously). That 1 mana can be the difference between life and death.
    The "extend" is pretty mayor here imo as we talk about cardadvantage and potential recycle of the EtB of Sage in addition to it's body if we compare Sage vs Decay (Decay vs GSZ is nonsense as I would not cut SB Decays even with more MB Sages).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  6. #6026
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    CA and recycling are useless when you're dead. In my opinion we're comparing a 2 mana answer to a 3/4 mana answer.

    Blow stuff up first, generate CA later.

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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    CA and recycling are useless when you're dead. In my opinion we're comparing a 2 mana answer to a 3/4 mana answer.

    Blow stuff up first, generate CA later.
    Delver kills in three turns? Or is in regards to being locked under Chalice while opponent "goes kratos" with Eldrazi beatz (which is a point to consider for sure)?

    Jokes aside, my friend. I support stocking up MB removal for Enchantments/Artifacts since the rise of SFM/Vial/Jitte/Chalice/SneakAttack/Omniscience/etc. in general and just want to discuss pros & contras of mono-green vs. Green/Black mana as well as the value of being an Elf & 2/2 vs being uncounterable in regards to several possible matchups with Eldrazi among them. I think of potential value of the 2/2 body after destroying a counterbalance to create cardadvantage AND put up a clock with a single card against Miracles to make up for Terminus trades, or the cmc restriction in case of one of the befordmentioned enchantments and of course also about Decay as a tool to stall certain decks clocks. :)

    Edit: I think, that if we leave NO behind, we finally have the slots for new tools, but have to remain a certain access to our toolbox even with 4 less tutors
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  8. #6028
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    I guess it'd be best to do some testing with it. The validity of either is probably very metagame dependant. Vs. Miracles you'll probably get away with GSZ into Reclamation Sage, vs. Eldrazi you'd probably prefer to AD their lockpiece T2 so you can start fighting back ASAP.

    Don't forget Reclamation Sage is only 2/1 though, no matter how beautiful they are .

  9. #6029
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    I guess it'd be best to do some testing with it. It might very well be incredibly metagame dependant. Vs. Miracles you'll probably get away with GSZ into Reclamation Sage, vs. Eldrazi you'd probably prefer to AD their lockpiece T2 so you can start fighting back.

    Don't forget Reclamation Sage is only 2/1 though .
    My bad about the toughness ;p

    Every choice is metagame dependant, but we seem to agree that trying to get away with 4 GSZ + 1 Sage with such an oppression by Miracles & Eldrazi is tad lose and adding only 3 SB Decay is no turning point to reliable fight back games 2 & 3 in common matchups. Its up to testing which density tool or actual solution to common permanents fares best across the possible matchups
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  10. #6030
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    My bad about the toughness ;p

    Every choice is metagame dependant, but we seem to agree that trying to get away with 4 GSZ + 1 Sage with such an oppression by Miracles & Eldrazi is tad lose and adding only 3 SB Decay is no turning point to reliable fight back games 2 & 3 in common matchups. Its up to testing which density tool or actual solution to common permanents fares best across the possible matchups
    Seconded!

  11. #6031

    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Hello all! I'm new to the discussion here, and I was wondering if this is the place to talk about ALL Elf decks or just the Glimpse of Nature combo builds? I've got a more aggro-based list that I want some opinions on.

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  12. #6032
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    Hello all! I'm new to the discussion here, and I was wondering if this is the place to talk about ALL Elf decks or just the Glimpse of Nature combo builds? I've got a more aggro-based list that I want some opinions on.
    More for the Elfball ones. Though calling even this a combo deck is a bit of an exaggeration. It's a midrange deck first, a combo deck second.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  13. #6033

    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    More for the Elfball ones. Though calling even this a combo deck is a bit of an exaggeration. It's a midrange deck first, a combo deck second.
    I'm using combo a little (ok, a lot) loosely.

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  14. #6034
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    I'm using combo a little (ok, a lot) loosely.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    Why not just post the list and wait for some opinions?

    Warning: Make sure you wear the proper safety gear before doing this.

  15. #6035
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Why not just post the list and wait for some opinions?

    Warning: Make sure you wear the proper safety gear before doing this.
    Potential safety hazards include getting rapped on and yelling Lemnears.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  16. #6036
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    And yes, that's 2 p's.

    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    It's been a while though. He never really managed to recover after Ogre Tea. It's hard to follow up such a masterpiece. No wonder the pressure got to him, poor guy.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  17. #6037

    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Why not just post the list and wait for some opinions?

    Warning: Make sure you wear the proper safety gear before doing this.
    Better deploy the hatebears. This is a budget list, but I'm tinkering it slowly.
    Creature (34)
    1x Craterhoof Behemoth
    4x Elvish Archdruid
    4x Elvish Champion
    3x Elvish Mystic
    1x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
    2x Fyndhorn Elves
    3x Imperious Perfect
    4x Llanowar Elves
    4x Priest of Titania
    1x Quirion Ranger
    1x Reclamation Sage
    1x Scavenging Ooze
    3x Sylvan Messenger
    1x Terastodon
    1x Wirewood Symbiote
    Sorcery (7)
    4x Green Sun's Zenith
    3x Natural Order
    Land (19)
    1x Dryad Arbor
    18x Forest

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  18. #6038
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Uhm... Lemnear..?

    Please be gentle.

    Maybe a power ballad. Or a slow jam.

  19. #6039

    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Uhm... Lemnear..?

    Please be gentle.

    Maybe a power ballad. Or a slow jam.
    *braces for impact*
    Yes, I'm new to legacy. No, I'm not in a super competitive setting. This is mostly for the occasional LGS event. Yes, this is a more aggro based approach, and I understand that there are a lot of things that need to be fixed with this list. That's why I'm posting it. Again, this was a budget list I found that I'm using as a template. I just want to see what needs to be added.
    Annndddddd I just noticed the inexcusable absence of Elvish Visionary.
    Maybe I deserve to die now.
    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    Potential safety hazards include getting rapped on and yelling Lemnears.
    Rofl

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    And yes, that's 2 p's.

    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    It's been a while though. He never really managed to recover after Ogre Tea. It's hard to follow up such a masterpiece. No wonder the pressure got to him, poor guy.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.
    Atomrofl.

    Edit - found it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post

    Lights!

    Camera!

    Action!




    This ain't the Legend of Zelda, but a Link to your Past?;
    Wanna waste slots in da board, 'cause of all the matches you've lost?;
    Tell your local burn player, the show's over;
    The discussion's so-so, Peter's posts pwn posers!;
    I wrote a rap, motherfucker! Hope your reading it too;
    Giving specific instructions how to fuck with burn players like you;

    Wanna burn me out after I got Ruric down?;
    You better re-read Mike Flores' "Who's the beatdown?";
    You think, killing my creatures is destructively?;
    I got a million elves - they die for me!;
    I know that you like to think you're so macho;
    But you can play your deck with one hand while eating some nachos;
    I work hard for my wins, while you and your boyfriend Steve;
    Just keep tapping a Mountain for dealing me three?;
    Look, we all want to win, kid, but you took it too far;
    You played butthole roulette and you lost the draw!;
    Are you already afraid? Am I smelling some pee?;
    Yo, Homeboy! Finish this rhyme for me!;



    They call me Ruric Thar, you wanna mess with me?;
    I'll put my balls in your mouth like Ogre tea!;
    I got an axe on my arm! Yeah, I steal the show!;
    6 damage to your face for every spell, you know?;
    I don't tap for attacking, so you can't get past me;
    This battle's your last judgement, Trust me!;



    Now hand me some of these:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

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