An obvious contender for a UR shell, so let's break him, shall we?
Here is my attempt:
Creatures (14)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (28)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
Lands (18)
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
Grim Lavamancer and Dark Confidant are also contenders for the creature base. Anyways, pitch in your ideas!
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
He seems so incredibly vulnerable to hate that it seems almost foolish to build around him.
Dies to any removal
Valid target for almost any counter
Incredibly vulnerable to any sweepers
Tokens don't have any kind of evasion
Eats up your 2 drop turn
Maybe I'm underrating him but he looks very unimpressive to me.
Is this a joke?Originally Posted by kwis
Most creatures die to removal, most creatures can be countered, most creatures are vulnerable to sweepers, most creatures don't have evasion. So, congratulations: you've just described most creatures.
And it eats up your 2 drop turn? OMG you have to pay mana for it!?!?!?
You know what else dies to removal, can be countered, doesn't have evasion, and costs two mana? Snapcaster Mage, Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, and Stoneforge Mystic.
Young Pyromancer is raw advantage when it gets going, and for a two mana investment--how does this not seem at least good, if not amazing? Sure, it's not "the best creature ever printed," but I think any shell utilizing it--like the one listed in the OP--isn't exactly going all-in on this card.
SCM makes value when cast
Goyf is the most efficient beater/wall in the format
BOB buries the opponent in CA if he gets to live
SFM replaces itself with Jitte/Batterskull at worst
Thalia taxes decks which helps her protect herself and win on mana
Young Pyromancer spits out 1/1 tokens. He's quite far from the power level of almost all of the 2 drops that commonly see play.
In the list you posted I see Young Pyromancer as the least valuable player. I expect your wins to come on the back of flipped delver, DRS, and Daze/Force. I'm sure that the deck can generate value using Young Pyromancer, however I also think that you could probably slot in another 2 drop and have equal or better results.
This is what Young Pyromancer does. This is not a build-around deck, anyway. It's similar to most other tempo decks, except it has a mini-Talrand.
I think the deck should have counters that Snapcaster can flash back if we were to run him, so maybe Flusterstorm or Spell Pierce should be in.
I hate to be that guy but..
Wouldn't Goyf almost always be better then the Young Pyromancer, as it would represent more attack power by itself then a few 1/1s after some spells..?
Cheers if you do break the card!
What about putting it in some kind of nivmagus shell? Seems like it would be really good with something like that. Or it could be cool in that combo deck with paradise mantle in modern (but updated for legacy).
Why hate on attempting to build something new? Sure, maybe it wont work, but it also might, and innovation only happens when you try. Don't worry about the haters, lets give this a shot.
i honestly think that the interaction between the red guy, gitaxian and therapy is just great!
from that list i'd just change the 2x snapcasters for trying a shell with 2x more catrips (preordain probably), for let us draw more (and having more cards useful for searching answers and triggering the pyromancer "for free")... or maybe just with 2 more counters...
i'll try this deck cause the idea seems very interesting
I don't have a decklist in mind yet, but I can see this guy performing in a creature/combo hybrid deck. Something that features
Rite of Flame
Deperate Ritual
Pyretic Ritual
Seething Song
Manamorphose
Empty the Warrens
Mass Hysteria
I'm just naming the cards that havn't been named yet. Obviously Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy are very good options.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Cards I can think of off the top of my head:
Faithless Looting
Ideas Unbound
Strategic Planning
Maybe a singleton Chandra, the Firebrand? If only that chick was...
OFFTOPIC -sorry-
Funny you posted this. The first thing I thought of when I saw this card is he might be a very legitimate sideboard card in Belcher. A lot of decks side out all or most of their removal for games 2&3, except for sweepers though because of EtW. It might not work but someone that plays Belcher should give it a run through the gauntlet.
Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly."Got any trade boogas?"
There's been talk about using the Pyromancer in the Zombardment shell.
I was thinking about the BWr colors as well. Stoneforge Mystic and Lingering Souls appear to be natural fits with Young Pyromancer.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
I'm also really interested in a Grixis Tempo deck that abuses Young Pyromancer. Ral Zarek would also be pretty fun to tap down a goyf / untap a Deathrite Shaman for one more activation.
Punishing Fire is also pretty good with Young Pyromancer. But that would be some kind of Next Level Threshold deck, not a grixis deck.
It seems that this creature looks alot like Quirion Dryad. You need it down before you chain instants for it to really be effective. On top of that it takes a turn for it to attack. How do you deal with that problem? Also wouldn't you want Dark Confidant with a curve like that?
Another Way to make him viable could be:
"Hells Gate"
The Gate + R
4 Innocent Blood
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Tseize
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Bolt
Dark Confidant
4 Bitterblossom
3 Jitte
I don't know if i want to include Punishing fire's and lose the stability of being an Br deck, but it seems like he's a good inclusion into the gate, being another bitterblossom, and quite good with jitte, innocent blood (makes it one sided) and therapy
Quirion dryad is much worse than pyromancer. If the dryad is killed all the "additional value" of casting spells is gone. With pyromancer you still have the tokens.
Currently playing: Elves
IMO Pyromancer is very nearly a straight upgrade from things like Kiln Fiend in formats that are heavy on removal - you get tangible benefit even if he's removed, your benefit sticks around for more than one turn, and he can give benefit the turn he comes into play. Downside is that it's impossible to one-shot someone on the turn you cycle through and the power you get out of your instants is a little less.
What this tells me is he's best in a grindy deck that just keeps going and going with the pressure.
With that in mind, I'd assume he's best in a Jund shell, probably with slightly more good sacrifice outlets and additional instants/sorceries. DRS/Pyromancer seems like a very strong set-up, though, so it might be worth toying around with.
This would be the start of any shell I'd ever try with this guy...
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Cabal Therapy
2-4 Innocent Blood
If you wanted to make an explosive turn it seems like he's the best candidate for that.
Would Catch // Release be good in the Grixis version with Cabal Therapy and Innocent Blood?
- Gain control of your goyf, attack you with everything (including your goyf), sac your goyf to flashback Therapy.
- Gain control of your Liliana with 2 counters, you sac a creature, Lili is destroyed.
- Gain control of your Germ Token, attack with it, cast Innocent Blood during second main phase to destroy the Germ Token and your Dark Confidant.
Or is it too cute?
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