Show and Tell/Exhume + Elesh Norn + Clone

[Kap'n Cook]

Let me preface by saying this is not a stupid "Can I kill their Emrakul/legend by putting in my Phyrexian Metamorph" question.

Upon resolving Show and Tell or Exhume I choose my Phyrexian Metamorph and my opponent chooses Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. At what point does the global +2/+2, -2/-2 buff happen? I know that off of a show and tell you can 'see' what the other player put in so you can name Griselbrand/Sneak Attack with a Phyrexian Revoker.

Basically I am wondering if I can choose to copy my Imperial Recruiter (or any other creature with ETB for others) with my Metamorph to get the trigger before both die, or whether Elesh Norn is already considered on the battlefield with it's global effect.

[Tammit67]

Basically I am wondering if I can choose to copy my Imperial Recruiter (or any other creature with ETB for others) with my Metamorph to get the trigger before both die, or whether Elesh Norn is already considered on the battlefield with it's global effect.

419.1b Effects that read "[This permanent] comes into play with . . . ," "As [this permanent] comes into play . . . ," or "[This permanent] comes into play as . . . " are replacement effects.

In order for a replacement effect to happen, the event it is going to replace has to not have happened yet. Therefore, when you make the choice of what to copy, your metamorph (and their elesh norn) aren't yet in play. You can choose Recruiter and get its triggered ability. Both copies of recruiter will be in the graveyard before the trigger goes on the stack, however.

[phazonmutant]

Let me preface by saying this is not a stupid "Can I kill their Emrakul/legend by putting in my Phyrexian Metamorph" question.

Upon resolving Show and Tell or Exhume I choose my Phyrexian Metamorph and my opponent chooses Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. At what point does the global +2/+2, -2/-2 buff happen? I know that off of a show and tell you can 'see' what the other player put in so you can name Griselbrand/Sneak Attack with a Phyrexian Revoker.

Basically I am wondering if I can choose to copy my Imperial Recruiter (or any other creature with ETB for others) with my Metamorph to get the trigger before both die, or whether Elesh Norn is already considered on the battlefield with it's global effect.

Clones modify how they enter the battlefield - before they hit play, you choose what to copy. So with Exhume and Show and Tell, both creatures hit play simultaneously, ETB triggers are placed on the stack, and as soon as they ETB, static effects (like Norn's abilities) apply. Then once the spell has resolved, State-Based Actions are checked, and your Recruiter and your Metamorphed Recruiter die. Finally, players get priority with the triggers on the stack.

Something to think about - Hypergenesis doesn't put creatures into play simultaneously, you take turns putting them in. So if you put in Metamorph before Recruiter, you'd have to copy something already in play, but if you put in Recruiter then Metamorph, it can copy Recruiter. But in either case, even if your opponent puts in Norn first, then you put in Recruiter, then Metamorph, because SBAs aren't checked until after the spell is done resolving, you can still copy Recruiter.

[cdr]

Clones modify how they enter the battlefield - before they hit play, you choose what to copy. So with Exhume and Show and Tell, both creatures hit play simultaneously, ETB triggers are placed on the stack, and as soon as they ETB, static effects (like Norn's abilities) apply. Then once the spell has resolved, State-Based Actions are checked, and your Recruiter and your Metamorphed Recruiter die. Finally, players get priority with the triggers on the stack.

Not quite correct - triggers trigger when creatures ETB, but SBAs happen before any triggers go on the stack.

[phazonmutant]

Not quite correct - triggers trigger when creatures ETB, but SBAs happen before any triggers go on the stack.

Thank you, I misspoke (-wrote?)

[Kap'n Cook]

Okay I thought of another question regarding SnT or Exhume.

Player A casts Show and Tell/Exhume. Player A plans on putting into play/returning Iona while Player B plans on Painter's Servant. Obviously Player A wants to name the same color that Player B picks and Player B wants to avoid that at all costs.

Since 'choosing a color' is not a triggered ability does the active player/non-active player stacking still apply? Or does choosing a color happen simultaneously? If it is the latter, how would one go about implementing this in a tournament setting?

-Kapn

[Koby]

Okay I thought of another question regarding SnT or Exhume.

Player A casts Show and Tell/Exhume. Player A plans on putting into play/returning Iona while Player B plans on Painter's Servant. Obviously Player A wants to name the same color that Player B picks and Player B wants to avoid that at all costs.

Since 'choosing a color' is not a triggered ability does the active player/non-active player stacking still apply? Or does choosing a color happen simultaneously? If it is the latter, how would one go about implementing this in a tournament setting?

-Kapn

Multiple instances of "choose a ___" controlled by different players are indeed covered by AP/NAP ordering.