[SCD] Goblin Guide

[Patrunkenphat7]

Obviously Goblin Guide is a solid aggressive 1-drop...

The real reason I wanted to start a thread about this guy is because I think the vast majority of people play him incorrectly in tournaments. So I pose the questions...

When do you play him on turn 1?
When do you NOT play him on turn 1?

If you have a Kird Ape and Goblin Guide in hand on turn 1 (in a RG deck), which do you play first and why? What factors change this decision?

If you have a Wild Nacatl and Goblin Guide in hand on turn 1 (in a Naya deck), which do you play first and why? What factors change this decision?

In your Burn deck, do you kill the Deathrite on turn 1 or play the Guide?
In your Zoo deck, do you kill the Deathrite on turn 1 or play the Guide?

[Megadeus]

Obviously Goblin Guide is a solid aggressive 1-drop...

The real reason I wanted to start a thread about this guy is because I think the vast majority of people play him incorrectly in tournaments. So I pose the questions...

When do you play him on turn 1?
When do you NOT play him on turn 1?

If you have a Kird Ape and Goblin Guide in hand on turn 1 (in a RG deck), which do you play first and why? What factors change this decision?

I play GG on T1. If I am on the play it is an assured 2 damage whereas Ape may eat a removal spell. factors that change this decision? Meh Probably every time I play guide unless my opponent is on the play and goes something like fetchland into Grim Lavamancer.

If you have a Wild Nacatl and Goblin Guide in hand on turn 1 (in a Naya deck), which do you play first and why? What factors change this decision?

Here again I go T1 Guide. Even if My Nacatl can be a 3/3 by T2 Guide is hitting for 4 by Turn 2. Again playing the dude with 3 toughness may be better if my opponent goes T1 Lavamancer, but that is a cornercase.

In your Burn deck, do you kill the Deathrite on turn 1 or play the Guide?

This one is actually difficult. DRS can shit out something like GOST or KOTR or some other fat wall like dude that guide cant swing through, but at the same time he will more than likely not be gaining life on T2... I think you probably kill the dude hoping they were hinging on playing a 3 drop T2.

In your Zoo deck, do you kill the Deathrite on turn 1 or play the Guide?

I dont actually have much experience playing aggressive decks, but these are my lines of play and my reasoning for it. I figure that in a burn style deck or something hyper aggressive like Zoo or Burn just wants to put in as much damage as quickly as possible and just hope it is good enough.

[HammafistRoob]

Agree with all the above except the Nacatl scenario. If you play Nacatl turn1 Guide turn2 you hit them for five right there, and they only got one trigger from your Guide.

[Dice_Box]

I play burn, when do I drop guide? Right away. Asking if I would hit DR or go with the guide? I am going to say if it is game one, guilde. Game two, I am going to make that choice dependent on what happened game one. But since I do not have Fetches in my burn deck, I am more willing to let a DR live. At the same time, if DR has proven to be an intrical part of their plan, I do not want to hand them fetchlands so I will kill him.

But really, Guide is best used fast and early, when they have nothing to block with or what they have is stuff they do not want to lose. Drop the guide, get as much use as you can and then move on. Also something to think about if you are playing against DR. Sometimes you do not want to kill creatures so that way they do not have a way to gain life with him. You will not always have spells you can use to remove other DR's. Sometimes you will draw Price or Flame Rift. Then you have to deal with the fact that your card advantage is eaten up by someone gaining life. While playing burn, them gaining life is the last thing you want.

[troopatroop]

Life totals don't matter as much as gamestate and card advantage. In a Zoo deck, I will always lead with the Kird Ape or Wild Nacatl. Holding Guide until turn 2 or 3 can save you card disadvantage, and while it seems like you missed out on damage, you were always going to have to get through the summoning sickness. Turn 1 isn't bad, but it's not as good as turn 2 imo. Haste becomes even more relevant PAST turn 1.

[Justin]

Goblin Guide is typically a creature that you want to drop on turn one, especially when on the play. Steppe Lynx is one creature I would cast before Guide, because you are limited as to how many landfall triggers you will get. Decks that play Guide are fast aggro and burn decks and they will almost always want to kill an early Deathrite Shaman immediately. That little bugger will ruin your day with mana accel and life gain if you allow it to stay online.

[L0cke]

Life totals don't matter as much as gamestate and card advantage. In a Zoo deck, I will always lead with the Kird Ape or Wild Nacatl. Holding Guide until turn 2 or 3 can save you card disadvantage.

I think it is correct to play it turn one every game one IF you DON'T know what they're on. Giving them an extra land on average one of every three swings in this format is nothing compared to the information you're getting seeing some of their deck. In the blind seeing one card off the top combined with their turn one play tells you a lot about what they are and aren't playing. And every card you get to look at gives you more and better information to play with as the game goes on.

I would agree that games 2 or 3 it might be beneficial to play a non-hasty threat if you don't need the information on their deck and then hit for more turn 2 but even so Goblin Guide is typically a one-mana Ball Lightning by turn three, and that is hard to turn down against most decks.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Life totals don't matter as much as gamestate and card advantage. In a Zoo deck, I will always lead with the Kird Ape or Wild Nacatl. Holding Guide until turn 2 or 3 can save you card disadvantage, and while it seems like you missed out on damage, you were always going to have to get through the summoning sickness. Turn 1 isn't bad, but it's not as good as turn 2 imo. Haste becomes even more relevant PAST turn 1.

I think troopatroop makes a good point here.

[funyun45]

But really, Guide is best used fast and early, when they have nothing to block with or what they have is stuff they do not want to lose. Drop the guide, get as much use as you can and then move on. Also something to think about if you are playing against DR. Sometimes you do not want to kill creatures so that way they do not have a way to gain life with him. You will not always have spells you can use to remove other DR's. Sometimes you will draw Price or Flame Rift. Then you have to deal with the fact that your card advantage is eaten up by someone gaining life. While playing burn, them gaining life is the last thing you want.

Qft. Think of Guide as a really good bolt. You usually get in 4-6 damage with just one card, which in a burn deck is pure CA. The sooner they can effectively block him, the less value you're squeezing out of that card.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I think troopatroop makes a good point here.

As a counterpoint if they have removal Guide is gonna eat it which clears the way for your other dudes.

[Patrunkenphat7]

As a counterpoint if they have removal Guide is gonna eat it which clears the way for your other dudes.

Yes absolutely. The turn 1 removal if your opponent is on the draw makes Guide a better play than Ape or Nacatl turn 1. So that raises the question... Which do you play turn 1 on the play if you have Nacatl, Kird Ape, and Guide vs an opponent blind???

[TraxDaMax]

Also depends if you're on the play or on the draw.
On the play, if you cast guide and attack, and they hit land, they'll end up with 9 cards in hand, meaning they need to play 2 or they discard their extra card. Not that that's super important, but I'd calculate it in. A looting is worse then a normal draw in my opinion.
And alot of decks don't have a 1 mana permanent to play turn one, leaving them in this position if they reveal a land with GG.

[Einherjer]

Also depends if you're on the play or on the draw.
On the play, if you cast guide and attack, and they hit land, they'll end up with 9 cards in hand, meaning they need to play 2 or they discard their extra card. Not that that's super important, but I'd calculate it in. A looting is worse then a normal draw in my opinion.
And alot of decks don't have a 1 mana permanent to play turn one, leaving them in this position if they reveal a land with GG.

Well, drawing one random card and discarding the worst one for this given MU doesn't sound too bad either.

Greetings

[TraxDaMax]

Well, drawing one random card and discarding the worst one for this given MU doesn't sound too bad either.

Greetings

Totally agree. But it still means one card less. Which leaves less options for Brainstorm/Force of Will/Jace for instance.
The downside will always be a downside, just a tad less in the scenario I described :)

[Braves54321]

I don't think anyone is properly assessing the drawback on goblin guide. I was playing u/r burn with delver, snap, and guide as my creatures. I replaced guide with vexing devil, as there was many times where guide may have been getting in there, but sometimes I'd give away 2-3 land in a row. You all say getting an extra land is bad, and they will have to discard. But you forget about the extra card they drew, you can actually give your opponent buisness cards where they would have drawn a land. It came to the point where I actually lost some games due to guides ability letting the opponent dig so he could find big threats like goyf.

I'm not saying goblin guide is completely awful, just its drawback can either be really good and give you info of what your oppnent will draw next, or it literally says for them to draw an extra card.
Comes down to luck, and how you cut their deck, I'd rather run vexing devil, as both cards have the drawback of being an awful lategame topdeck but devil does not have the give away cards drawback.