omnitell
hive mind
sneak/show
reanimator
If their is already a thread about show and tell in general, then i am sorry, i am on a plane writing this and the wifi is cheap, but slow. I wanted to get a general feel of what show and tell is to the meta, and how important it is to the decks using it. i am speaking mostly of reanimator, hive mind, omnitell, and sneak/show. Also the occasional 12 post deck. So my point in making this is, people have very mixed feelings about the card, ranging from "its cute" to its format breaking and must be removed. This is not another BAN X because Y thread, however i would like to discuss that as well. first of all, 6 sneak/show decks have topped recently, and 6 omnitell. My information on that comes from metamox.com. This does not seem like a whole lot, until we look at it this way. lets call these two decks, "show and tell decks", even if sneak/show can win with sneak attack and omnitell with dream halls. if you say show and tell decks, you have 12 decks (excluding reanimator and hive mind). esper deathblade, the deck we have all heard so much about as of late has made 10 top 16 spots recently, and rug delver has 8. Does this make show and tell the best decks in legacy ( notice i say deckS)? I dont think it does. One thing we have to notice is sneak/show did better a while ago, while omnitell has topped more recently. Is omnitell the new show and tell deck making sneak attack obsolete? I dont think it is, but has the meta shifted in a way (jund is not around as much, esper stoneblade is less in favor of deathblade which has a slightly worse combo matchup). Before people start saying OMG they are different decks i am offended! please note that i am well aware that sneak and show and omnitell and hive mind, are different, they just have similar paths to victory, even if one is combat based.
Another thing i want to talk about is the newer more optimized omnitell lists, the ones using laboratory maniac or the clash ants card, and no griselbrand. I have seen the deck play, and it feels strong. has a competent pilot just not taken it to a large scale event? Is it capable of fighting the faster combo decks with its only real counters (lets not count pact for your opponent going off) 4 force of will, and 1-2 flusterstorm? Is having a three card combo on one color worth it being three cards in comparison to our brother deck sneak/show? I have sneak and show built currently, however i have learned from playing it that a resolved show and tell into emrakul is anything BUT a won game. These are just some things i would love to see discussed and feel like if we did, we would all have a better understanding of its place in the meta, and what direction we feel it is heading. lastly, i will leave it at this, Do we think it will be banned? and if it is, will similar decks stick around and win in different ways like dream halls? or will us combo players go back to storm.
The poll is for what deck we think is the strongest of the show and tell decks.
In my opinion, mono-U Show and Tell is the strongest due to it being the most redundant/consistent, although it suffers from inherent card disadvantage because Dream Halls requires a pitch card, in a vacuum sans Duress/Thoughtseize/Hymn to Tourach or if unmolested, the deck "goes off" more reliably.
Historically combo decks were built like this: 4x + 4y = win. The mono-U version can combo off like this: 8x + 8y, not taking into account the number of Intuitions in the deck. 4 DH / 4 Omni + 4 ETI / 4 C-Wish = win, thanks to Firemind's Foresight.
Basically a 2-card combo. I consider Show and Tell in the list as an accelerant like Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors. The deck wins on the same combo turn, without waiting for the next upkeep or combat phase.Originally Posted by BanShowAndTell
I like that alot about it, one reason i may switch is in my combo meta lgs, half of my show and tells end in my death. Any insite on the decks not running firemind and decks using clash kill vs laboratory? How does it deal with abrubpt decay? Just respond with a brainstorm?
Brainstorm or any of the 7-10 counter spells/C-wish you just drew with your entire deck. Specific strategies and questions should be posted and discussed under the Omnitell threads.
People who do the laboratory trick usually has noxious revival in the board to bring it back. Another way is since you have your whole hand in play, you can usually brainstorm. The only card that kills laboratory finish is that one red card that deals 2 damage to a creature with split second. Thats when you go the noxious revival route.
Sneak and Show has had better finishes than Mono Blue OmniTell since Dragon's Maze was released. Sneak and Show is less powerful, but more consistent. OmniTell's main advantage is the manabase, but a good Sneak and Show player should be able to play around Wasteland most of the time. OmniTell also straight up folds to more cards (Iona).
fixed that for you.
I agree, no deck has a clear advantage over the other on an unknown meta. Both decks have their advantages and disadvantages. Which is better right now... tough call - if you believe the DTB section of June:
Canadian beeing #1 is pro Omnishow
Jund and BUG in the top 4 (and esper rising) is pro Sneak because sneak handles discard much better (needs less cards and maindeck misdirections).
Sneak and show beeing popular is also a minus for omnishow altough some people have even results (which I cannot understand - if you know what you are doing as sneak player you should have a very clear advantage over omnishow).
Currently playing: Elves
On topic: the sneak attack deck is the fastest combodeck among them which still performs, but it's easier to hate out than the Omniscience build. Your question is largely metagame dependent. If you're preparing for a large event, like BOM or a grand prix, the Omniscience deck would be a safer, but maybe not a better, choice.
Off topic: I know you're still young, but learn the difference between their, there and they're. I was raised in Dutch and I learned it, you can do it too.
Last edited by Stan; 07-10-2013 at 03:25 AM. Reason: nm
Omniscience has more inevitability and will generally win if allowed to combo. Sneak Attack has fewer combo pieces to assemble and thus can be quicker to combo off, but comboing doesn't always mean winning that turn. Less cantrips and less action means that Sneak Attack can also suffer more from bad draws (especially after having combo'd off once and trying to fire again).
I agree with akatsuki and his wording. Sneak is more consistent because it requires less operating pieces. Omni is more powerful because it has a deterministic kill which only requires you achieve the prerequisite (Omni or Dream Halls + cards in hand). Being the more consistent deck is a big boon for Sneak and means it will edge out over Omni in long tournaments.
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The way you stated your argument made it seem like Omni is more consistent because it has fewer required pieces (just Omni or DH + cards). Nonetheless, less operating pieces doesn't warrant consistency. ANT, for example only requires Ad Nauseam (its mana source/accel are built-in) but the deck is not regarded as super consistent by that virtue alone if not for the tutor + filter + draw spells since its business spells only make up 6/60 of the entire deck. Between Sneak, ANT and Omni, the latter two run full sets of BS/Ponder/Preordain. While all three were built with consistency in mind and are DTBs, in long tournaments, whichever has more ways to manipulate its draws, library, or land drops would come out to be more consistent.
This. B/C-Wish versions of Omni has always ran full sets of the trifecta.
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