[Deck] Salvager Game (Golden Grahams)

[Bane of the Living]

Serenity doesnt hit Meddling Mage or Burning Tree Shaman. Just play Deed, comon now.

[Rambo]

I saw a list on the mana drain, and it was running decree of pain. It is an uncouterable mage and gamekeeper killer, not to mention a goblin hoser with dark ritual. What do you guys think?

[Bane of the Living]

Decree is definitly a good idea. The only real problem is the mana cost. When normally running 19 lands the deck sometimes has trouble hitting 5, especially through denial lands. Whats the decklist?

[Ventus]

What decks in Legacy play Burning-Tree Shaman? Also, how does Burning-Tree Shaman stop you from Gamekeeper-ing out Darksteel Colossus? Your point, I suppose is that Meddling Mage and creatures in general are a big enough problem so that Serenity isn't good enough. I dunno, if you're really worried about critters, keep a Bone Shredder or a False Prophet (tech!) in your sideboard as a wish target - in a pinch, the Shredder destroys Gamekeeper too.

I guess it all depends on the hate you expect to be facing. Most people in the area I play bring in the artifacts to stop me - Tormod's Crypt, Pithing Needle, and Null Rod. Because of Threshold, you can count on seeing Crypt pretty much no matter where you go. I've found that Crypt alone usually isn't enough to stop me.

Pernicious Deed is probably a better answer than Decree of Pain and Engineered Explosives, although all three get shut down by Pithing Needle (unless you're somehow hard-casting Decree) - Decree doesn't hit artifact hate and the Explosives are useless if they have a Null Rod. Then again, Decree can't be Forced and EE can be recurred if you have Salvagers. It's all a matter of what you expect to be facing.

[Bane of the Living]

Zilla Stompy plays BTS. Its an effective beater that ties on a few more points of damage thanks to things like Vial and Fetchlands, are you suprised it's played? It stops me from comboing unless I have an answer for it. Bone Shredder is a good idea, I dont know why I didnt consider him before.

Not sure if you realized this but your opponent can respond to Gamekeepers death by activating their Tormod's Crypt. He'll rfg and he'll never trigger. That makes it so even Colossus plan is trickey with crypt in play. Fortunatly no one I paly against seems to know that. I feel like Im letting the cat out of the bag even mentioning it here.

I really think Infernal Tutor has a place in the deck. Replacing maybe Tainted Pact or whatever other tutor effect people are trying. Its very easy to dump your hand and tutor for that last cog. Its card 'doubling' tutor effect is pretty disgusting with Therapy as well.

[Ventus]

I'm aware that a Crypt can stop the Gamekeeper. But if all they have is one Crypt then you can usually just play around it. If you're careful, Crypt can't stop the Salvagers, and while stopping a Gamekeeper is clearly bad for this deck, it's not the end of the world. STP and Stifle do the same thing, but you can usally nail them with Duress or Cabal Therapy.

I've haven't seen the Shaman yet (no Zilla-Stompy players around), but I have had to deal with Disciple of the Vault, which is equally bad for this deck, so you're probably right that Deed is simply better going into a large metagame.

I'm also beginning to see Leyline of the Void pop up in sideboards (and Iggy-Pop), which tough to deal with if it starts in play, short of wishing for Monk Realist or paying a total of 7 to wipe it with Deed. Stupid replacement effects..

I agree - Infernal Tutor would be absolutely insane in this deck. I don't think it necessarily completely replaces the Pact - Most builds run Night's Whisper or Sylvan Library, and while they're ok, neither of them is as crazy as the Tutor would be. Although I haven't tested it out yet (because I suspect that the WOTC is going to hit the Tutor with the ban hammer in Legacy), I would think that the Tutor would be busted because you can:

- Tutor, sac LED in response, get anything in your deck
- Double LED (if you have another tutor or wish)
- Double Cabal Therapy and rip your opponent's hand to shreds
- Double Gamekeeper (if you're facing down Crypt)
- Rip it off the top with an empty hand for the win.

All this for 2 mana seems pretty solid.

[Bane of the Living]

I highly doubt a new card will be banned in this format. Its been a long long time since a card was banned when first introduced, and I doubt it would be the tutor anyways. Infact, since Infernal Tutor is just around the corner Im sure they took it too mind with the March bannings. If anything LED would probably become ban worthy but it remained unchanged. They did see some Iggy decks post results and werent too worried about it, still printing the Infernal Tutor, which I suspect will bring huge life to the combo scene.

Deed does seem best as of the moment but I've been sideboarding it. Ive been toying around with Darkblast a bit and Im pretty impressed. I originally wanted Life from the Loam for the draw engine and help with the decks mana troubles, but Darkblast showed to be the best candidate. It allows for more lackey answers, also being amazing against the hordes in general. It dredges cogs and therapies into the graveyard, and its another way to off your Gamekeepers. It also takes care of Meddling Mages, even tho slow, it can dredge back through countermagic. Give blast a try and let me know what you think.

[SillyMetalGAT]

I've been tinkering around with dredge in this deck on apprentice, and it certainly is good. It helps the decks biggest issue: Having Salvagers but no artifacts in the yard. I use Life from the Loam too, but thats because I play super secret tech at the moment. Darkblast dredges for the same number, and it can kill most of the usual suspects, and it even shoots at your Gamekeeper if theres no better option.

[Watcher487]

What are people's opinion about adding blue into the deck?

Lim-Dul's Vault and Brainstorm are both awesome cards that really does need some consideration.

Now this will make the mana base worse for most considerations, but Teferi's Response makes all LD into 3 for 1's

This is what I ran @ Kaddy's DLD on 4/8/06
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Pollutted Delta
2 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strands
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Snow-covered Swamp

3 Gamekeeper
2 Auriok Salvagers

2 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Pernicious Deed
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
2 Night's Whisper
3 Tainted Pact
2 Brainstorm
4 Living Wish
1 Krosan Reclaimation
1 Life from the Loam

I ended up going 4-2 overall you can read my match-ups here:
http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showt...t=3170&page=12

This is something that I've been kicking around since Hollywood built 'The Game' a little over a year and a half. The deck is amazingly more consistant even with all of the 'Non-basic hate' floating about. I think the big thing that people need to consider is that since heavy Wasteland decks are not putting up the numbers that they used to. It might be an interesting idea to consider the splash.

[Bane of the Living]

When SillyMetalGAT played the deck at the Kadilaks he had alot of luck with Spoils of the Vault over Tainted Pact.

@Watcher487
The blue splash is interesting but did you ever have problems with your mana base? This deck doesnt have the best base with 19 lands anyways.

How did you like dredge in the deck?

[SillyMetalGAT]

Well, as Bane already mentioned, I played this at the D4D's. ended up going 2-3 DROP with it, but I had a blast playing it. On the way home though, I got to thinking, what about a blue splash? So after to talking to Niknight for a while in the car, I decided to test it out. I present to all of you, my lastest creation:

Gifts-Keeper

Land:
3 Bayou
3 Polluted Delta
3 Windswept Heath
2 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains

Creatures:
3 Gamekeeper
2 Auriok Salvagers

Draw:
4 Living Wish
3 Gifts Ungiven
2 Night's Whisper

Artifacts:
4 Lions Eye Diamond
4 Chromatic Sphere
1 Pyrite Spellbomb

Removal/Disruption:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
3 Innocent Blood

Accel:
4 Dark Ritual

Super Secret Tech:
2 Reanimate


SB:
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Darksteel Colossus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dragon Breath
1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kjeldoran Dead
1 City of Brass
1 Trinket Mage
1 Gamekeeper
1 Auriok Salvagers

Out of initial testing alone, this deck is slower by about 1-2 turns, but the consistency makes me wet myself. Gifts is probably the most rediculous card for this deck. When the deck goes EOT turn 2 Gifts for Salvagers, Keeper, LED, Reanimate....... Things get pretty hairy. Let me know what you think.

[Lego]

ended up going 2-4 DROP with it

You can't drop after the last round :-P

Out of initial testing alone, this deck is slower by about 1-2 turns

I don't know that slowing the deck down is the way to go, but if you're consistency is increased enough, you could still be okay. I think you need to consistantly be comboing out on Turn 3, as many aggro decks can win by Turn 4. Slowing the deck down by 2 turns means that you sometimes won't be winning until Turn 4 or 5, when Goblins could already have beat you.

[SillyMetalGAT]

@Lego_Army_Man: Nice catch on the 2-4, should be 2-3. As for the slowing down, the nice thing against Goblins is that this deck kinda combos off a turn earlier against them; What I mean is that Goblins would be stupid to swing into a Gamekeeper without having lethal on the board. I've never seen Goblins go lethal on turn 3, but if it happens, im quitting Magic.

[Bane of the Living]

It also means if your going Darksteel C route he needs 2 more turns to win putting you at turns 6-7 ftw. Yuck.

Sorry I dont see Gifts being worth a 4th color. This deck was nice and simple as The Game at 2 colors. Salvagers was painstakingly added for the crazy combo win it warranted. At a shakey mana base of 19 land you want to add another color for a 4cc spell that isnt keeper or salvager. Hence a 4cc spell that wont win the game when it resolves.. And now your at 18 land. I dont see it being worth it.

Im skeptical about the blue splash for even the Brainstorms yet Vault seems quite powerful. I know theres a way to keep a good combo deck from going 4 colours though.

Reanimate seems like it could be usefull but I think Ill try my luck with Infernal Tutor first.

[noobslayer]

This is rather random. But as far as wishboards, why does everyone seem to prefer Darksteel Collosus? I have a personal preference to Akroma. To me, she seems to alter the state of the game a lot more, and hits hard while remaining on defense. I like the Akroma-Razia plan game 2.

[SillyMetalGAT]

First off, the deck very LIGHTLY splashes the white, and granted, I only played the deck in 5 rounds and thats my only expirience, but I had no problem mana-wise. This could be because nobody plays Wasteland anymore. The White shouldnt even be considered a splash, so this really just comes down to teh deck being B/G/U. As for the Green, the only cards that are green are Gamekeepers and Living Wishes. 7 cards with 11 different ways to produce green seems ok to me. So your really only dealing with having to get blue and black. Not that hard with 6 fetches.

From here, we can look at the possibilities of tutors. For Black, you have Tainted Pact, Plunge into Darkness, and Spoils of the Vault. All of these are pretty sub-par (especially Spoils considering it lost me 2 games) Black also has card draw in the form of Night's Whisper. Whisper is probably one of the best card draws out there just because of its simplicity. Draw 2 and lose 2. Sounds good to me. It also saved my ass multiple times because it ripped 2 lands off the top of my deck that normally would suck!

So, as we can see, Black is good for dealing with the Keeper, disruption, and mana accel, but sucks badly at searching. So, until I see something that is much better (Infernal looks LEGIT, not good enough to run though, I could be wrong though) Im pretty sure this deck can run off another color.

So, with 2 colors left to explore, Red and Blue, Im guessing BLUE is better. Looking for Tutors, one card came across right away: Gifts Ungiven. THE CARD IS CURRENTLY DOMINATING 2 FORMATS!!!! It can't be bad!

If I need to help prove this point to anyone, I will gladly playtest this out online, my AIM screenname is on my profile.


@Noobslayer: Akroma is a really strong option, I was also considering..... NO FLAME PLZ...... Sundering Titan? He may suck big time for the land thing, but he is a 7/10..... and it does slow the opponent down TREMENDOUSLY!

[noobslayer]

I believe sundering titan was tested in the original straight version of The Game... with poor results.

[Bane of the Living]

You didnt have any mana problems because you were lucky enough not to play many opponents with Wastelands. Also because I fixed the mana base in your deck to include 7 basic swamps and 3 less fetch lands than other builds.

Plunge is actually not terrible since it acts as a way to kill off keeper. Tainted Pact needs to be built around, Spoils I guess is the same its always been, good but it can kill you. Gamekeeper is your Tutor, so is Living Wish. I still dont see a reason to add 4 colors to this deck.

Akroma wont kill your opponent in two turns. Sundering Titan is just terrible in this deck. It geddons you and has no evasion. DC is the way to go, I dont see much arguing in that. You dont need Akroma to be defensive because as soon as DC hits the table your opponent should be the one worried. Especially if you get Dragon tech on him. You dont bring in the DC plan against most aggro decks anyways since that plan is 2-3 turns slower. You need to go combo against aggro and race them.

If your plan is to play slower Id rather add cards like Vindicate or Deed to the main.

[SillyMetalGAT]

This deck works perfectly fine, if not better with another color. As mentioned earlier, the white shouldnt be considered, theres only 2 cards in the deck (3 if you include the SB) that use white, im surprised the deck even plays 3 plains-based lands, But I wont disagree with results.

What does this deck do when your opponent goes StP for the win? Just roll over and die? At least Reanimate gives you some help (animate keeper and repeat the wash) Gifts gives the deck to grab WHATEVER it needs at the time.... I dont know if a lot of people know this, but im pretty sure that you can search for less than 4 cards. I asked a level 2 and a level 1 judge and they both said the same thing: Gifts can go for any amount of cards and your opponent chooses 2 to put in the graveyard. So you could go for Chromatic Sphere and LED, have them both dropped and win... off of topdecking a Salvagers. Howabout searching for just Salvagers, Keeper, Reanimate AFTER you pop LED in response? or just going Salvagers, LED, Keeper while holding Reanimate in hand? Hell, even throw Therapy in one of those if you wanted to just to have the backup!

@Titan: Just an idea, he worked wonders in Welder Survival, so I thought maybe...... Im guessing no. Darksteel is cool and all, but man hes got a HUGE bullseye on his head. At least Akroma swings in for 6 once maybe, she also frees up a sideboard slot (no more dragon breath FTL)

[Bane of the Living]

StP hurts any large creature just as much as DC but you shouldnt have a problem with that thanks to 4 Therapy and 4 Duress.

I think the biggest arguement I have against Gifts is that the deck already has its combo search engine. Gamekeeper is there along with Living Wish w/LED mana to cheat out Salvagers. Gamekeepers mill affect should put the cogs needed to win into your graveyard already. I dont have a problem comboing off with those cards. Its support cards for the combo that I want. I think something like Unmask or Hymn to Tourach would benifit the deck more than Gifts Ungiven.

What does this deck do when your opponent goes StP for the win? Just roll over and die? At least Reanimate gives you some help (animate keeper and repeat the wash)

The Gamekeeper RFG's when he triggers so he's not in your yard if you comboed with him. Wouldnt Reanimate work better with something like Darkblast?