[Article]Eternal Europe: Raiding The Necromancer's Vault

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

I would love to see a similar article on effective Cantripping in cantrip heavy combo decks that feature Brainstorm, Ponder, and Gitaxian Probe; possible also Top and Preordain. Effective ways to see lots of cards for least mana etc.

Duly noted. That definitely sounds like a good subject to cover.

@Kayradis: Whenever I write an article on Storm, I strangely hope not too many people actually listen to me and pick up the deck. I don't want anything to be banned and Wizards hates the archetype with a passion... Meaning I'm not really too sad the whole "Just gotta count to ten" thing happens for most people that try out storm. We wouldn't want enough people to play the deck to really make a dent, would we?^^
That being said, I'm reasonably confident the complexity level of the deck will keep that from happening anytime soon, which is why I still write articles promoting it. That and how much fun actually playing it is! (<- speaking of misconceptions)

@Squirrel: I already have a - very basic - ANT primer (well, rather a presentation of the deck) among my archives, though it remains far from comprehensive enough for me to be content with. Good to know there's a public for more of those kinds of things!

[Sloshthedark]

As I was cited in the article, followed the discussion but was rather busy to respond, so to put some thoughts behind my list:

General construction

Basicaly the setup is mix of local metagaming and playful evening with GP Madrid 2010 lists. Plaing only storm I get bored time to time so I wanted to try something new besides weird SB. Originaly it had 3 SDT, not sure what has to go to put the 3rd top in =/.


Lands

I'd like another 2 fetches best =) , that being impossible... so after observing the biggest impulse to fetch basic is having the other one in hand/play already I tried playing none and it's fine for me... I fetched Sea most times knowing Opp has wasteland in hand anyway and strongly oppose fetching basics preemptively unless the situation calls for it, your 3rd land is going to be nonbasic anyway, the 2 previous restrain your options not to mention stifle leaves you with "just" island. Scenarios where wasteland/basic problem is the only obstacle (like swamp duress, fetch duress kill) are rare for me the accept it... you can obviously face daze+waste+stifle blowout situations, there are many scenarios and some feat. making them waste you, so basicaly you sacrifice some stability preboard to have more postboard - colorwise, mine choice being worse in waste-lock enviroment... I'd say I lose the same I gain in general in my meta.
Not playing Ground Seal I might go for 10 fetch 3 Sea setup. Other than that, you get some element of surprise... like Bayou->top into Badlands-> kill =D


SDT

the idea behind SDT is you with "delayed draw" you can better face discard and setup you Turn, the LDV interaction being obvious and it rather improves your longer games... still you have to accept the card does nothing first 2 turns most games unlike Preordain. Oldschool Ant tech. I don't miss the 4th ponder that much.


LDV

Some spanish guys used to run that 1-2 years ago, I used to dislike this tech post-ban because of card disadvantage, vulnerability to REB, SS and with 2 cc 2 colors it's weird element at first... it still feels very non-fluent, same with BW, but besides my love for old frames, walls of text and incomprehensible paintings I believe it has some real application - being a must counter puts Opps into tough decisions in early game same as it can turn the game upside down lategame. I rarely search for one-offs but cardtypes, combinations, so I haven't thought about looping, interesting how often it's fine to rearange just top 5 cards... Makes deck more challenging.


AN vs. EtW, 2x PiF

I rarely miss Ad Nauseam, EtW, although I dislike the cards looks and style, is more effective solution nowadays. With Ad Nauseam 0 floting you execute yourself more times then the combo itself. Lotus petal being the accelerant you don't want to see multiples, It's better to see useful card rather than improve your T1 Etw potency imo. I might consider AN SB but when to put it in? Also know CC is no limit both SB and MD with that goes my signature 2 PiF tech, used to play it even with AN in - speeds up the deck, prevents random discard+deathrite mishaps and is overall sick beyond belief... btw. still looking for 2nd korean foil... anyone?


SB

Thief - The list cited was build for our weekly LGS, this particular SB expected 2-3 other Ants, 2x reanimator/Tin-fins, 1x S&T in 14-20 people... Ant is the only deck that can actually punnish T2 brainstorm, Thief is more unexpected than Spannish Inquisition, can chip off lives reasonably well in longer games as well as satisfy suicidal tendencies vs. certain creatures... so much for the Thieves... Not definite recommendation but earns you some respect sometimes unpredictible lunatic reputation as well.

Pyroblast - unlike discard hits S&T, topdecked or with Leyline, and important BS in mirrors, has nice application vs. T2 CB which control player does not expect, covers Clique and Delver (which is not irrelevant as best Threshold starts against AnT feat. DoS).. works great for me

Ground Seal - before DRS discard alone used to be a joke, and many decks have GY hate as best and sometimes only choice in SB, and since spell can cost 2 lifes you play LDV, you know... sadly sometimes DRS is enough to stop you... Seal cycles itself so it's acceptable inclusion, practical aplication is kind of ok, hasn't been stellar for me as DRS decks leave some AD or Pulse in, but won some games... again is unexpected and prevents you from getting paired vs. reanimator =/

Lightning Bolt - wanted to play 3, have just 1 Alpha =D ... seriously - just decided I can't fit all 3 in with other cards I want to try... application - kills DRS, pings for 3...and you don't expect it...


and that's about it... Carsten, thank you for the article interesting read as always, maybe we'll meet at Bom or GP someday...



I don't think that play-right article is desirable, it's experience, general game knowledge and sharp mind that rewards you and defines your playstyle... thinking for a minute... maybe it's needed considering what happens under SCG camera...

[sdematt]

I liked the article. Not many people know how good LDV really is.

We referenced you in the latest Everyday Eternal Podcast :)

-Matt

[Kayradis]

@ Mon,Goblin Chief : I think SCG deserves a new Elves! primer. The last one was almost 2 years ago by Chris A. and with all the new options it could be a sweet piece.

I also understand you when you talk about bannings. Fortunately for us, Legacy is not Modern!

[mike1987]

C.K. productions proudly presents: Even more ways to efficiently count to ten.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ers-Vault.html

Enjoy & test it out!

Awesome article as always Carsten! Really enjoyed reading it. I think LDV does make ANT even more consistent.

Just a few questions if you dont mind.

1) I see that your new list plays 2 Sensei's divining top. May I know what is the rationale behind it? Cause SDT is inherently a slow card and removing one lotus petal might combo-ing off ad nauseum even harder(Yes I know ANT is a bad ad nauseum deck as compared to TES) but sometimes going via that route is needed depending on card draw and the situation of the board state.

2) Since ANT is more of a PIF deck, so a lethal tendrils is more often than not the winning condition. Adding ETW does indeed give you a higher win rate against decks like Canadian threshold if you naturally draw it(or it is easier to play around soft counters as it costs 1 less than ad nauseum and PIF effectively) or even an alternative win con against decks like jund or maverick if it's being cast early in the game. Just wondering how is it treating you so far in your matches?

3) Lastly, I am really psyched to try out LDV in ANT, what do you think of this change that I make to your old list.
Old list: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...xperience.html

-2 Preordain, -1 Grim Tutor, -1 Island --> +2 LDV, +1 ETW, +1 Badlands


Hopefully we can see more awesome articles from you! Thanks:)

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

@sloshthedark: Thanks for putting down your thoughts/motivations. Some answers:

basics: what happens most for me is that I play first against RUG and fetch an Island, they drop their Delver/Cantrip/counter something and I get to get the swamp. At that point its really hard to lose in my experience. As such basics feel worth it to me.

LDV: felt the same about it before but retesting it fell in love with the card. It often feels like you can't lose when you resolve it, so sweet. Also: finally got to loop into a kill this weekend needing brainstorm and double accel in the same pile - so sweet :)

Double PiF/ANT: have been testing that, too, lately. It's pretty good because drawing Pif is sweet but still not sure it's actually necessary. In that build I have AdN and the missing Petal in the board, bringing it in against heavy discard decks and S&T - quite useful in those matchups to randomly win or at least necro for 10+ cards.

Your arguments for the SB cards are good, will try out some of them. I've also played with the idea of boarding a couple of Bolts independently - BURG can be a problem when they have Delver and Shaman and you can't deal with either. Killing Delver just buys you so much time, it might even be worth it for that alone.

@sdematt: Darn it, still behind on my listening schedule. Thanks for reminding me! Sadly couldn't listen to the first one on the "road", sound wasn't loud/clear enough to hear through subway noise - might be my MP3 player, though. Checked out the one with the judge Q&A, the sound quality seemed much better so I'll try listening to them outside again. Is that the one I'm referenced in (I skipped a bit of the Q&A because it felt like I knew all the answers already ;) )?

@Kayradis: would need to test some more to really cover Elves well. Will look out for the opportunity to test it more (managed to borrow it for one mini-tournament so far).

@Mike1987: Thanks :) As to the questions:
1)Basically the same reasoning Sloshthedark had. Makes your matchups against discard better and is very good when setting up cute plays/LDV. I wouldn't fault anyone for running the more standard Preordains instead, which might still be the correct choice. For every game Top wins me, there's one where it doesn't really do much of anything because you have better things to spend your mana on.

2)EtW wins games no other card could. I only use it once in ten games maybe (more in certain matchups, though tutor chains and Pif into Tendrils are still the main plan) but it's really worth it for those, especially as tempo is pretty much the hardest matchup among the most common decks.

3)I'd probably cut the 7th discard spell before the second Preordain, though doing what you suggest seems quite reasonable, too. Remember that having extra-cantrips also really helps to make LDV insane.