Why not go for monoblack and Curse of Death's Hold? Watch your opponent never having lands in play ever again.Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
This way all of their lands become Swamps, and note how those can be enchanted, killed, and so forth...Sadly it's more like a copypaste from the "Lets break some horribad cards" thread than anything serious...
I don't own any Sinkholes... and they are no longer fine nor are they OP. Creatures and effects that get them into play are more powerful than the LD which used to keep them in check. Turn 1 Aether Vial made LD less viable, Show and Tell made LD less viable, a flipped Delver makes it less viable, and so many other effects that just diminish the returns of killing land when the threats are either already in play or don't need land to come into play.
I run LD in one of my stompy builds. A Moggcatcher is used to fetch a Goblin Settler and then Kiki makes copies. But even that is only a secondary part of the deck since the main way I lock out land is with 8 moon effects.
This was always going to happen, Wotc has long said that their vision of the game did not include more LD. Shy of a major shift in policy this is unlikely to change.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
1) Why do you care about their hand if they have no lands? Just smash every dude/land they play and continue to beat face. Use SDT and fetchies to filter bad cards away.1) The black disrutive tactics have two troubles: both LD and discard gets weaker as the game progresses. But these two combined should fare well, as blank card (be it discard or LD) is dead no more - there will always be a target for your disruption, be it land or hand, because less lands in play = more cards in hand. This is hardly surprising,
2) I know, but what surprises me is the fact that except for Pox, there are very few (mono)black aggro/control decks that use thos tactics of continuous depletion of opposing resources.
3) Recently I tested RUG on MWS and I ran into a monoblack deck using these tools (along with ten or so creature removal) and I was completely dead to it. Light on creatures, my deck was unable to overcome the press with just mere "Delver, flip, Force, Force, Force until they die", and since turn 3 or so, I was completely unable to play anything.
If combined with clock (be it sole Ghast or whatever), the fact that he attacks all of my resources (even gravey with DRS), forced me to scoop. So there's not only the usual Pox decks, but maybe one may find different disruptive tactics.
4) I imagine something like this:
4 Wasteland
X Swamp
4 Drit
9 removal
4 DRS
4 Confidant
4 Hypno Specter (I'm serious)
4 Bloodghast
4 Sinkhole
1 Icequake (dodges Spell Snare)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn
May it work?
2) Since people play Leyline of Sanctity, it is extremely hard to justify playing a lot of targeted discard. I hate every single Leyline ever printed because they take interaction out of the game. Sure it does nothing to your LD, but the decks packing LoS can win with two lands easily if you waste all you turns trying to blow up their land while they cantrip into more lands. Also turn 1 DrS into turn 2 KotR just took a massive dump in your cornflakes. Land destruction spells suck. (@OP) Cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get over it. The game changes as time goes on, nobody wanted to eat all of their Mogg Fanatics when the combat damage changed.
3) RUG gets polished off by random jank decks, it's designed to beat tier 2+ decks. I once beat a friend of mines' RUG build playing Lorwyn block Rw Giants, 5 straight games. Does that mean I should think Giants is a viable Legacy strategy? Hells no.
4) I am the godfather of MBAC. I used to win/consistently top8 with it when everyone considered it awful. I just don't think it's time yet, although The Gate and Pox are Tier 2 so all hope isn't lost yet. That list looks fun as hell, but I really don't like the LD, except Wasteland obviously. I feel you could use those 5 slots and probably axe the Hippies (frown town) so 9 slots to shore up whatever matchups your expecting. I'm also not the biggest fan of Hymn anymore, sure it's card advantage but really only if you pluck 2 relevant cards. I feel like one mana discard is far superior these days. I mean we have Inquisition, Seize, Duress, and CABAL THERAPY? Knowledge of their possible lines makes it easy to play optimally. Not to mention Hymn is just too slow against any form of combo these days unless you're on the play or you also have a one mana discard spell to make sure they don't go off Turn 2. That's of course assuming they don't just Duress you first taking your Duress and laugh as they just took away your only play for the whole game.
Damn I wanna play monoblack, but first I must burn every Leyline of Sanctshitty ever made.
Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly."Got any trade boogas?"
Aether Vial can just be nuked with abrupt Decay if you use Bayous in your deck. I honestly haven't run LD since MM was legal, so I can't comment on spells like Show and Tell or Shallow Grave or Sneak Attack, etc etc.
If someone beats you because they don't need land to play things though, and your deck is solely aiming to beat them by destroying their lands.... by that logic don't they deserve to win?
Pretty much all of Legacy is a ton of spells which are grossly undercosted, so I guess I'm saying that every deck in the field is trying to do precisely that. Sinkhole and friends are generally not enough to effectively stymie all the things anymore. So, every deck ever is aiming at "do as many things as possible with as few mana as needed" and they are all better than dedicated land destruction for this reason. Asking whether or not it's "deserved" feels like you're telling me I'm surprised by my own argument, was that on purpose? O_o
He's on a baiting spree, i suggest you to ignore him until he stabilize.
Pretty much all of Legacy is a ton of spells which are grossly undercosted, so I guess I'm saying that every deck in the field is trying to do precisely that. Sinkhole and friends are generally not enough to effectively stymie all the things anymore. So, every deck ever is aiming at "do as many things as possible with as few mana as needed" and they are all better than dedicated land destruction for this reason. Asking whether or not it's "deserved" feels like you're telling me I'm surprised by my own argument, was that on purpose? O_o
No, and "telling me I'm surprised by my own argument" doesn't even make remote sense. I made no reference to anything about surprise or your state of mind.
Pretty much all of Legacy is a ton of spells which are grossly undercosted, so I guess I'm saying that every deck in the field is trying to do precisely that. Sinkhole and friends are generally not enough to effectively stymie all the things anymore. So, every deck ever is aiming at "do as many things as possible with as few mana as needed" and they are all better than dedicated land destruction for this reason. Asking whether or not it's "deserved" feels like you're telling me I'm surprised by my own argument, was that on purpose? O_o
If a figure skater hits another in the leg with a steel pipe hoping to win from crippling her opponent and the other figure skater puts her skates on her hands and wins the olympics by skating in a handstand I'd say she earned her olympic medal.
If an LD deck tries to win by LD and another deck wins because they can do things without land then they deserve to win.
If figure skate A goes back next olympics and tries the same thing and loses again then I'd say maybe it's not meant to be and she should revise her strategy.
Same thing here. People love to attribute lack of success to other things, in this case it's WotC. But they've said straight up that they don't like LD and it's not a strategy that they want to promote. Those statements are pretty easily accessible to anyone who has the internet. If steel pipe to the knees isn't working then abandon Tanya Harding. If killing an opponents land isn't doing anything then aim elsewhere.
A "baiting spree"... you heard it here first..... xD Sounds legit.
Sounds about right.
Land destruction sucks, you guys.
Destroy Land ----> Lose Game ----> Destroy Other Things
Destroy Land ----> Lose Game ----> Repeat
Option 1 sounds better but it seems I'll be written off as a troll and you'll go with option 2 instead. Good luck with that.
I hope you were referring to Mental Misstep, but in case you meant Masques - I get the joke now. How long has Sneak Attack been a deck, again? It was pretty well-off during the Misstep-legal days, but you seem to be inferring you have no experience with or against the deck.
I swear to Christ, your reading comprehension is sloppy like Dakota Fanning at a Ke$ha concert.
Nothing makes any sense anymore. I'm locking myself in an empty dishwasher with Drano and bleach and green food coloring. I don't even care what happens next. Science!!
Mental Misstep made everything easy to deal with... was what I meant... and was in the last LD deck I used.
But nice work warping the statement into something completely different.
It's like that one time when you somehow twisted what I said to somehow being you surprised at your own argument. I can see how you're so often confused when you're not only arguing with another forum poster but some voice in your head who's arguing about something completely different.
How are you not getting the issue? Just read the thread title ffs. You're tilting at windmills here.
Bardo, Site AdminNowhere do you see: Efficient Answers to Other Cards. Force and MMS will never be banned. Deal.
I get the issue and responded directly to it multiple times. Although people replied to it trying to twist it into weird passive aggressive unrelated statements about their stand of mind the title topic has been addressed and runs into a dead end at the same place any way you go about talking about it.
New LD support isn't being printed because WotC doesn't like that strat.
With that said, one can either continue playing it as is or change up strats.
If they wanted LD to be an option they'd just unban Strip Mine. They reprinted it in from the Vault, it's not like the card is inaccessible. They don't want the strat to be viable though.
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