From my experience with UB Tezzeret (similar list), Tezzeret can completely change the game around. Not to say Jace isn't a better card, but in this shell, Tezzeret allows you to dig much deeper for your combo, turns your Baleful Strixes or Thopter tokens into huge threats, and his ultimate gives you an alternative win-condition. That being said, when I was playing UB, it wasn't utilizing the Thopter combo, and the token advantage might make Jace a better choice (considering you can protect him).Originally Posted by sdematt
Why aren't you running Ancestral Vision? Maybe drop Tops for them?
Also, isn't Loam worth it instead of the Noxious Revival? It gives you inevitability with Intuition.
I'd like to get a single Creeping Tar Pit in there.
I do agree on Decay > Swords; especially when you're running Intuition.
Is Misdirection really worth with all the recursion going on? You don't have something like Counterbalance which you'd like to protect from opposing Decay.
I'll try to give a spin and see how it goes.
On other news, I took the deck to a tournament on Sunday. I lost round 1 after drawing mono lands off my Visions, getting Chocked game 2. I went on tilt, and played REALLY BAD rounds 2 and 3, literally giving away game 3s. I got a bye round 4, decided it was enough, dropped and went home. I hated not having answers to resolved permaments out ¡side of Krosan Grip, so Abrupt Decay might be welcome.
It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
I feel like at this point we're turning into a Shardless BUGw monstrosity. Unless I'm running rainbow lands I have a thing against using 4+ Colors.
Deathrite helps, but not enough, and it makes running utility lands more difficult unless you want to start trimming spells.
Decay isn't the only reason to go black, but I doubt the merit of adding black strictly for it, deathrite, or a combination of the two in the main. It cuts deeply into the deck, and it isn't even about what it does to the manabase.
Ultimately, we are trying to make this deck as potent as we can. With the power of our threats: counterbalance, stoneforge, thopter foundry, maybe goyf, we should be pressing the issue. The removal comes later. This being said, we need to start looking at good possible enchantment hate cards. I want to test trygon predator in here, and that might force me to bring Jitte back into the main. I don't know yet for sure. It all still seems bad.
My buddy brought up mother of runes, which seemed interesting, but felt strange, awkward even.
I have been looking for a new deck to play, I think I will be giving this a try. How is the main deck combo matchup so far?
It depends. Against Storm or Belcher you need to mulligan aggresively into Force. If you can find a Counterbalance before they kill you, you should be okay. Post board you bring a million cards so you're favoured.
Omni and Sneak and Tell are by far worse match ups. Counterbalance is also your best ally, but they can ignore it with Show and Tells/Sneak Attack (post board leave the Agents in just to have more 3 drops to flip). I'm looking for better ways to hate them out which aren't dead against the rest of the format. Maybe the new counter (Swang Song) could be nice, since it stops both Show and Tell and Sneak Attack cold, no questions asked; and the 2/2 should be largely irrelevant.
It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
Well, I've been playing this deck exclusively for the past couple of months, and even though I'm not yet convinced it's good enough, it's all I have practice with and therefore I'll be playing it at SCG Milwaukee this weekend.
Testing with it has been all kinds of fun, and most games that I lose I can blame on my own errors. My overall record in matches is probably around 60%. I've always finished at least 2-2 in local four-rounders.
I tried the deck with goyfs main and didn't really like it, and I also tried it with RiP/Helm, Entreat the Angels, and more control cards instead of the Thopter Combo and SFM package. I didn't like either configurations, so I ended up back where I started. Goyfs in the board are great, though. They really slow down any deck with ground pounders.
I've had a lot of trouble with storm. The storm players in my meta board in dark confidant and abrupt decays, which really hurts my gameplan of sticking a counterbalance and then eventually finding a win condition. I added the leyline of sanctity's to give me another angle of attack. I'm interested in hearing what people have done to fight storm and show/tell.
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
4 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Academy Ruins
4 Shardless Agent
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Terminus
3 Ancestral Vision
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will
2 Thopter Foundry
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Batterskull
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard:
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Flusterstorm
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Humility
1 Counterbalance
1 Detention Sphere
1 Supreme Verdict
I like your list. Good luck in Milwaukee.
I finally started putting together a list. Had a few questions since I don't really play blue.
1. When is counterbalance bad? Besides against abrupt decay.
2. Would misdirection fit since it can't be cascaded into? Or is that to much card disadvantage.
3. Do you side out Shardless Agent vs storm for more counters?
1. Decks that play cards with very high CMC (MUD for example) and vial decks (Goblins, Merfolk, Death and Taxes).
2. Haven't tried it, but its good vs. BGx decks, which should already by positive match ups.
3. Yes, you take Agents out and bring in Flusterstorms, Canonists, etc. I do keep agents in vs. Show and Derp, since your best plan is finding a 3 drop to flip to counterbalance.
It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
Lately I have been fooling around with a list with Stoneforge Mystic and Shardless Agent as well, and in the thread I made for that deck someone mentioned the Thopter Combo has been tried in such a list earlier, so I tried to add it to my deck as well, but apparently there already was a thread for that (this one), so here's my latest list:
Creatures:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Shardless Agent /12
4 Brainstorm
3 Ancestral Vision
2 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Entlightened Tutor
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor /27
Lands:
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
1 Academy Ruins /21
Sideboard:
3 Meddling Mage
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Disenchant
2 Pithing Needle
1 Detention Sphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Humility /15
I recently removed the playset of Noble Hierarchs from the deck, in order to be able to add an Entlightened Tutor, a Top and two Ponders. Perhaps this current list needs one more land, but my curve is quite low, so I'm not absolutely sure yet. The Tutor does improve my sideboard options dramatically.
For reference: my old list with Hierarchs aimed to expand the board state as fast as possible. Shardless should in that list as often as possible cascade into threats. SFM, Goyf or a Foundry, preferably. The deck feels really good in both setups, but in the current meta, I think we don't really need the accelleration of the Hierarchs.
Not a huge fan of Ponder with Shardless Agent. Rudy's deck was a good set up for Thopters, but I think you like having the Goyf plan more?
Yes, definitely. Shardless into Goyf is just sooo much value.
This meta seems to be all about board presence, so Goyf for me is an auto include.
Ponder is there because I want to have something to do on turn one.
Vision is bad when you have to suspend it, while Ponder has immidiate effect.
This deck has so much card advantage, one less Vision should be just fine.
I had a medium sized tournament today and was going to play this deck; but in the end I couldn't get there. Anyhow, here's what I would have run:
MD:
4 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
3 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
3 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
1 Karakas
2 Academy Ruins
4 Shardless Agent
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Council's Judgment
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Counterbalance
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//Sideboard
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 2 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Counterbalance
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
Flex slots are:
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Stoneforge Mystic (4 can be to many)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (I like it, but sometimes its a dead draw given that I run few creatures).
Maybe I'd go -1 Canonist +1 Enlightened Tutor in the board. I'm not sure though, I've played the deck a lot with a single SB Enlightened Tutor and I have yet to ever cast it.
Given my previous experience with this deck, I think Council's Judgment was something we needed, since non creature permanents can be troublesome; and Cascade made other available options too clunky.
Thoughts?
It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
10th at the highly competitive Baltimore Open, very interesting development. Looked like Rudy's build with a small tutor package and Bridge as a trump card.
Hey guys,
I have been testing Shardless Bant exclusively the last months because I think it has alot of potential.
I started out with the list from Rudy .. Personally, the first thing that I would change were playing more basics. This is mainly a UW control deck with a light G splash which makes it very effective to change to an all basics shell..
Being able to cast all your spells without the fear of potential wastelands is so huge. This deck will win most games against the field except like ANT,.. G1/Miracles can be tough, so negating a huge part of the legacy metagame by ignoring wasteland is awesome, and its not like playing more basics hinders your plays. Also u can now play Back to Basics, and with the E. Tutor u got virtual 2 copies.
This is the list Im playing atm. I made some adjustments over time ..
+back to basics ,this card is win
+more basics for obvious reasons
-jitte /dont feel like its really needed anymore
-detention sphere/while its usefull- again not really needed rather play something else
+sword FxF/ The combo mu is alrdy pretty weak and now ur stoneforges are live// u need sword fxf anyhow postsb//its pretty good against bug,jund,.. too
+sylvan library, fixes ur draws/cascades,combos with all the life gain//dont always have spare mana to top//awesome card
+cascadable hatebears sideboard// I prefer this over counterbalance which is another really good option for this deck but I think solo visions are better..
Shardless Bant
4 misty rainforest
4 flooded strand
3 windswept heath
6 island
2 plains
1 forest
2 tundra
1 tropical island
4 shardless agent
4 stoneforge mystic
3 jace tms
4 ancestral vision
4 stp
4 brainstorm
4 fow
1 enlightened tutor
1 back to basics
1 sylvan library
1 ensnaring bridge
1 sword of feast and famine
1 sword of the meek
1 batterskull
3 thopter foundry
SB
1 grafdiggers cage
2 pithing needle
2 relic of progenitus
2 ethersworn canonist
2 meddling mage
2 vendilion clique
2 supreme verdict
1 humility
1 path to exile
Any comments/ideas/discussions are welcome for tweaking this deck !
Greets-
Creatures: 9
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Shardless Agent
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Equipment: 3
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of the Meek
Artifacts: 4
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Thopter Foundry
Enchantments: 2
1 Sylvan Library
1 Detention Sphere
Planeswalkers: 2
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Spells: 18
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ancestral Vision
Lands: 22
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Island
1 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
Sideboard: 15
1 Path to Exile
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Krosan Grip
1 Council’s Judgement
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Meddling Mage
Mine is pretty stock, I'll test out BtB though.
This thread seems dead, and I am going to try reviving it, as I am building this deck. Lets start with a list I copied from tcdecks that I like:
4 Shardless Agent
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Force of Will
3 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Batterskull
1 Sylvan Library
1 Humility
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Academy Ruins
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
3 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
//Sideboard
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Detention Sphere
SB: 1 Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 Supreme Verdict
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
Lets talk about the deck. First of all, it really beats aggro decks. Maindeck Supreme Verdict and Humility (got Abrupt Decay?) are great against all aggro decks, without stopping us from winning. You will also note that the sideboard is mostly dedicated against combo decks.
Creatures:
I see some people like Goyf in the deck. IMO thats going a little too deep into the aggro route. If i'm killing my opponent with attack damage, it would probably be with Batterskull. Stoneforge provides both the Batterskull route and finds Sword of the Meek. Deathrite lets us ramp and occasionally gain life against fast decks that could be a struggle. Shardless is just a part of the card advantage. I dont have any plans changing this setup as of now.
Instant/sorcery:
I might want to cut the tutor. Between visions and Brainstorm i dont feel the need to tutor often. More testing needed to verify this. Its worth noting though, that it works well with some of the sideboard cards.
Lands:
I might be inclined to cut the 3 Wastelands for basics, and follow RancOr's Back to Basics idea. the only lands i can think of that is annoying, is Tabernacle.
This seems like a very interesting deck. How does it play? Are there any videos available? Have you been playing this for a while? Can you tell a bit about the MUs? Sorry for all the questions, but I find Thopter Meek combo very fun and I want to know if it's actually playable outside of Esper colors. I don't like no basic Islands though, if -god forbid- Blood Moon resolves you're completely out of the game, feels week to Loam + Wasteland and Pox/D&T decks.
I love the idea of Shardless + SFM + Thopters though, feels like so much value.
As mentioned above, it wrecks aggro decks. Combo is the weak matchups, which is why much of the SB is dedicated to fight that. I played against manaless dredge yesterday, and I became aware that my SB is not good enough for that matchup yet ( it might also be my rusty play as it is a while since i've met manaless dradge)
No videos that i know of.
It is for sure the SB that i want to take a better look at in the near future.
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