[Deck] bUrg Tempo

[ESG]

In case anyone is still interested I think this deck is extremely strong in the form of my 9th place GP Col. list.
...
Even though this is kind of way after the fact I might post a short report in the near future.

I've been off of this deck for about nine months but am still interested in hearing developments and your insights. The list I had the most success with was a Young Pyromancer-based one that had only 1 Tropical Island and no Tarmogoyfs, whereas your list is more like BUG Delver with a small red splash. I found that I had better results against Miracles by playing Pyromancers and a few more burn spells, plus Sulfuric Vortex out of the board. I did play a Stifle build at GP Seattle, and Stifle was good, but I had a couple of bad beats in the middle of the day and didn't make Day 2. Lands became way more popular here after Jarvis Yu's win, and so I shifted to decks I felt were better positioned against Lands. Then people's interest with lands waned as Miracles took over, and Eldrazi became a deck, and I was excited to tinker with that. I definitely still have all my Delver cards and will eventually jam them again.

[noobslayer]

In case anyone is still interested I think this deck is extremely strong in the form of my 9th place GP Col. list.

...

Even though this is kind of way after the fact I might post a short report in the near future.

I'd love to hear about some of your other choices like the single Gurmag, or any of the other board slots. Did you test winter orb at all in the slot for painful truths?

[Actinide]

In case anyone is still interested I think this deck is extremely strong in the form of my 9th place GP Col. list.

It was built with aggression in mind as a tempo deck first and foremost, and that aggression acted as a shield for the manabase in many games simply due to the fact that my opponents couldn't get a good opportunity to wasteland me profitably. The build felt good against everything I played against, really streamlined. I liked the threat base of goyf over pyromancer with the way the rest of the deck was built, namely no probes and utilizing stifle. Goyf was also obviously nuts vs Eldrazi and the delver mirrors, and I love me some golgari charm.

If I had to change anything it would be -2 painful truths and +1 Sulfur Elemental, +1 Dismember/Jitte in the board. Truths is just not the way you want to beat miracles and it didn't seem great against anything else, kind of a step backwards from the deck's primary game plan.

Even though this is kind of way after the fact I might post a short report in the near future.

I'd definitely still be interested in a report, even if it is super after the fact. :) I'm interested in just the overall card selection and general boarding strategies you employed.

[Lormador]

I would love a tournament report.

When I saw that decklist I went gaga and sleeved it up immediately. I promptly went to a tournament and got my face caved in. I managed to do OK in some unsanctioned games with the guy who won that event (a friend of mine), but I was never able to become comfortable with the build.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, just looking forward to a learning opportunity because I am very definitely doing it wrong.

[nitewolf9]

Report is up.

I'll have to write a sideboarding guide later if people are curious. Like I said before, I think the truths were not very good and should be a Sulfur Elemental and something else, probably another removal spell or Jitte.

[Whitefaces]

Hey nitewolf9,

Thanks for the report, was great to read!

I've played your 75 at my LGS last week then in a side event at a WMCQ yesterday (scrubbed out of the main event), it feels really good and I'm loving the stifles.

I went 3-1 at my LGS beating Nic Fit, Enchantress and Esper Mentor then losing to Storm in the last round, mostly due to some misplays on my part. Mulled both games too and kept unexciting 6s.

5-0 at the WMCQ side event beating UR Landstill, 12 post, Jund, Sneak and Breach and Shardless with a couple of changes to the SB and one in the MD. With 19 lands and DRS I always like a TNN in the MD, it can steal so many games so I cut a goyf for him. And in the SB -1 Clique -1 Forked Bolt -2 Painful Truths. I think we have plenty of removal and the Forked Bolt isn't needed, the Clique I like vs combo and Miracles but I'd prefer to just cut all the more expensive threats in these matchups and have a dedicated card in this slot, and I'm really not a fan of Truths in stifle decks as they're working against each other. One is pure tempo, the other card advantage. I added a second Flusterstorm over the Forked Bolt as it comes in vs Delver mirrors too and I think we have an edge here anyway with so much removal. One Invasive Surgery over the Clique as it will come in vs Combo and Miracles. It also diversifies countermagic vs Cabal Therapy vs combo decks which is nice. +1 Winter Orb, this has been a house vs Miracles, Lands etc, and it's even better with Stifles. And finally +1 Sulfur Elemental. I'm not sure about this but I'm terrified of Mentor!

Angler has been incredible too, is it crazy to cut the third Goyf for a second one? Might be a bit too taxing on Deathrites then, but every time I've cast him there has been plenty of fuel between both graveyards.

EDIT: Somehow missed you mentioning about Truths and Elemental above! Well, glad you're on the same page :) I like Jitte a lot as well, especially with access to two TNN after board.

[blablub]

what do you guys think about Ben Friedmans list? looks super interesting in my opinion. But 4 Surgicals? i think he has a plan with these in combination with the Snapcasters. Maybe i give it a try :)

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21025&iddeck=160746

[Manipulato]

I really dislike his creature configuration. The rest of the deck looks standard and solid.
5 cmc creatures in the deck are just to many (3 SCM 2 TNN), with this build your fine vs Miracles but really weak vs ANT for example. If you miss the fast Delver opening you just have a really slow clock with only 2 Goyf.

[Whitefaces]

I really dislike his creature configuration. The rest of the deck looks standard and solid.
5 cmc creatures in the deck are just to many (3 SCM 2 TNN), with this build your fine vs Miracles but really weak vs ANT for example. If you miss the fast Delver opening you just have a really slow clock with only 2 Goyf.

Completely agree, the curve is way too high for my liking. I guess four Surgical Extraction with the Snapcasters is great to have vs Lands or other GY strategies, but generally Snapcaster just costs too much. One is fine, three not so much. Unless he's SBing all the extractions in vs Miracles, for example. Extracting StP and Terminus or Mentor and Jace could be quite good if it comes up, but I hate these kind of strategies. Just guessing though, could be completely off.

[AfroSmile]

Hi everybody,

It's been a long time that I didn't come on this forum and it is always nice to see new and more players giving the deck a chance. I want to congratulate all the people who did nice results and particularly nitewolf9 with is top 9 at GP Colombus! Well done! I was so pleased to see the real 4c Delver performing in a big tournament.

Report is up.

I'll have to write a sideboarding guide later if people are curious. Like I said before, I think the truths were not very good and should be a Sulfur Elemental and something else, probably another removal spell or Jitte.

First thank you for you report, it was really interesting to read! I'm curious to read your sideboard plan. A lot of people forgot it but the strong point of this deck is the flexibility. So when it comes to sideboard, it depends also of your version of your deck. Because of that, it's really interesting to see how people sideboard with their version. My version is really near yours (see my actual decklist below) so we may have something to share. I'm looking forward to see your post.

I really dislike his creature configuration. The rest of the deck looks standard and solid.
5 cmc creatures in the deck are just to many (3 SCM 2 TNN), with this build your fine vs Miracles but really weak vs ANT for example. If you miss the fast Delver opening you just have a really slow clock with only 2 Goyf.

I saw this version too. It's really a particular configuration. It would be nice to have comments of Ben about his creature package. 2 years before I play his decklist with -3 Snapcaster Mage -1 Spell Pierce +4 Stifle. It was fine. Snapcaster mage is nice creature in the flex slot dedicated for the creature, but 3 looks too much for me. But it enables insane plays with Snapcaster and Lightning Bolt. 2 Tarmogoyf + 2 True-name nemesis is a build that worked for me earlier.


Now I will discuss about my actual version of the deck. I named it Big BURG because of the creature package. Since the rise of the Eldrazi in Legacy, I feel like everybody want to play more big fatties like a little game in order to know who have the biggest creature package. And I say . "Ok, let's play this game".

[Creatures Package]
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Gurmag Angler

2 weeks before Prag, I was testing this creature package and it feels really great. Since the ban of DTT, I wanted to play Gurmag over Tarmogoyf (because of Decay), but why just putting them together. You play more fatties than Shardless BUG with this version and it feels really great when you're on aggro mode. The point is that all these creatures put a big pressure to the opponent and that's what we want.

The rest of the main deck is classic:
[19 Lands]
4 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

[14 Creatures]
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Gurmag Angler

[27 Spells]
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
4 lightning Bolt
3 Decay
2 Thoughtseize

Sadly I did nothing in GP Prag (another spell package + sideboard wasn't well prepared) and I did top32 at BOM Strasbourg (5 wins, 2 loss, 1 draw).

I'm testing Thoughtseize over Stifle because I feel that's not a meta for it now with Eldrazi. (I know Stifle can be amazing against Miracle, Shardless BUG (and other midrange deck), Storm, etc. But it is only good to pitch to FoW against Eldrazi.

My actual sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
1 Ancient grudge
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion clique
2 Golgari Charm
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
2 Baleful Strix
2 Winter Orb
2 Surgical Extraction

@nitewolf9: Instead of Painful Truth, give a try to Winter Orb.

I really want to speak about Winter Orb. The card is just amazing for me! This is insane. It makes Daze and Spell Pierce incredible in matchup like Miracle, Shardless BUG or other midrange decks. It hits really hard Lands.
And it feels like it's a really nice synergy with Deathrite Shaman and Daze.
Wasteland becomes better by applying more pressure on the opponent manabase. (Keep waste open in order to waste in the upkeep any non-basic land can made them think much more.)
I think, there is only 2 delver.deck which can play Winter Orb so efficiently:
RUG Delver and BURG Delver. => But RUG Delver don't play Deathrite Shaman.
Grixis Delver may need his mana cantriping into cantrip with young pyro.
BUG have a much higher curve than the other delver.

Now my problem is the following, I can't play that much because of my job. If you can share your feelings about these package and Winter Orb, it would be nice. If somebody is streaming with the deck, it would be nice to share or just send me a PM.

I hope what I've written will help somebody. I wish you a lot of fun to play Burg.

[Whitefaces]

I've had a singleton Winter Orb in my sideboard since I picked up the deck and will definitely be adding the second, you're right about all your points, the card is amazing in the deck. Jonathan Alexander was playing one MD and two SB at GP Prague, although RUG is a slightly better tempo deck than us I think we share all the qualities that make it great. It also gives us this new SB plan of keeping some number of Daze and especially Pierces vs Miracles and other big mana decks. We can drag them kicking and screaming back into the first turns of the game

About the creature package. I see where you're coming from to have a lot of fatties, currently I've got nitewolf9s creature suite -1 Goyf +1 TNN and am quite happy with it. I've thought about cutting another Goyf for a second Angler but am worried about drawing both in the early turns. The TNN still serves a similar 'fatty' role vs Eldrazi as it blocks anything bar a Smasher, which we still need to get a fifth card type into the GY for Goyf to work, I don't like relying on us hitting a Chalice or something to do that. It's also immune to Displacer which unchecked takes over the game fast, as well as be great vs Miracles alongside Stifle for Terminus.

I'm not a fan of Thoughtseize in this deck since it's a loss of tempo and we don't have any bombs to power through. I remember when TNN was first printed BUG decks picked it up to take out sweepers for the fish, but we don't have a plan like that here. Despite being poor vs Eldrazi, Stifle has a much higher ceiling and is off a lot of peoples radars currently thanks to Grixis mostly dropping it.

I'm still figuring out what I like and don't like in the SB, playing Stifle or not changes this quite a lot. I like the idea of Strix vs Eldrazi but if running Stifle I'd prefer to just get under the other decks it's good vs rather than play their game, so I'm sticking with a Murderous Cut and a Diabolic Edit (also fine vs Lands) in those two spots instead. The third card to come in vs Eldrazi for the three Stifles is an Ancient Grudge. Ideally after that the Pierces could be cut on the draw, but I'm not sure how to tie this in yet.

Clique doesn't seem necessary if running Stifles as we already have an answer to Terminus, vs PWs we have either Decay, Bolt or Pyroblast and vs Combo I'd prefer to be shaving threats anyway so it's not replacing a TNN. Here's some thoughts on my SB at the moment.

2 Pyroblast - these seem set in stone, half the reason to run red.
2 Surgical Extraction - could also be a 1/1 split of Surgical and Grafdigger's Cage.
2 Winter Orb - as above, insane in this deck.
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Murderous Cut - Dismember is an option to play over one of these, but vs Eldrazi or the mirror 4 life can cost the game. Edict is nice for opposing TNN and Mongoose too. Hooting Madrills be tough to answer too.
1 Sulfur Elemental - Mentor is a scary card.
1 Ancient Grudge - set in stone.
2 Flusterstorm - Goes without saying how good it is vs combo and the mirror.
1 TNN - For midrange matchups, this could be a wasted slot and be moved MD over a Goyf instead of adding another Angler.
2 Golgari Charm - these haven't been overly impressive so far, but I've not played against a lot of Mums recently either.
1 Fire Covenant - I just love this card, but since we're already running 7 maindeck removal spells it might not be necessary. Null Rod will probably replace it.

[Manipulato]

About the Winter Orb topic...
Winter Orb´s best place is in a Delver deck which has Deathrite Shaman, Stifle & a as low as possible cc2/cc3 count as possible. I think a Stifle Grixis list is the perfect home for it, the whole synergy between Probe/Stifle/Wasteland/Shaman/YP/Daze etc. with only 4 cc2 spells in form of YP is just perfect.

4c Delver with 2-3 AD, 4 Goyf & 1-2 TNN has a lot more "expensive" spells so that sometimes your own Winter Orb hits you (I had such situations before!). But a 4c Stifle Goyf version is still a solid home for 2 Orb´s in the SB, no doubt.

I would strongly advice anybody to play 2 in the SB just because we want to draw it early, a T5/6 Orb is just meh...

[AfroSmile]

About the Winter Orb topic...
Winter Orb´s best place is in a Delver deck which has Deathrite Shaman, Stifle & a as low as possible cc2/cc3 count as possible. I think a Stifle Grixis list is the perfect home for it, the whole synergy between Probe/Stifle/Wasteland/Shaman/YP/Daze etc. with only 4 cc2 spells in form of YP is just perfect.

That's true, I missed the point with Grixis Green. But Winter Orb doesn't do what Young Pyro wants to do => cantriping into more spell in order to create tokens.

4c Delver with 2-3 AD, 4 Goyf & 1-2 TNN has a lot more "expensive" spells so that sometimes your own Winter Orb hits you (I had such situations before!). But a 4c Stifle Goyf version is still a solid home for 2 Orb´s in the SB, no doubt.

I think without stifle, it is okay too. If you're not too heavy on the 2CC/3CC like me. I like to wait until I have a threat only before playing Winter Orb into a full tap opponent.

[theMonster]

Hey, y'all, sleeved up 4C Delver for the first time on Friday, beating Lands and Burn and drawing against Jund Nic Fit. I'll post my list, which is probably pretty standard, but am mostly curious about sideboard improvements and strategy.


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Tarmogoyf
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Gurmag Angler

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Daze
3 Stifle
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will

9 blue fetches
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

// sideboard //

1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Hydroblast
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Golgari Charm
1 Darkblast
2 Winter Orb
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Go for the Throat
1 Ancient Grudge


- I've found that Burn often appears at the weeklies in L.A., so I don't think I should leave home without a Hydroblast. Plus it does double duty against Sneak Attack, Young Pyromancer, and Blood Moon.
- Darkblast is the card I'm unsure about. DnT is popular here, and I see Elves somewhat often. Infect makes an occasional appearance, too. Perhaps this would be better as a Forked Bolt, a second Golgari Charm, or a Fire Covenant.
- I put the third Abrupt Decay in the sideboard for a Dismember because Miracles isn't well-represented in the weeklies here.
- Winter Orb is an absolute house. I had an occasional awkward turn where I wanted to cast Goyf after tapping out for Orb or couldn't develop my mana due to the Tabernacle tax, but those minor annoyances were well worth it.
- Go for the Throat was a hedge against other Goyf decks, Eldrazi, and silly stuff like Griselbrand. I liked it but didn't love it.

Here was my sideboarding plan for those three matches. I'd love some feedback, as I'm unsure about a few choices.

Jund Nic Fit:

-2 Abrupt Decay, -3 Lightning Bolt, -1 Spell Snare
+2 Winter Orb, +1 Go for the Throat, +1 Hydroblast, +2 Surgical Extraction

He ran a build with Punishing Fire, so Surgical Extraction felt right. I left in the Dazes on both the play and the draw because the cards I'm most scared of - Pernicious Deed, Liliana, and Green Sun's Zenith - cost 3+ mana. They run the Veteran Explorer package, but my plan was to Stifle the land search trigger (which worked great and won me game 2). One Bolt was insurance against a resolved Liliana since I took out the Decays.

Lands:

-4 Lightning Bolt, -1 Dismember, -1 Spell Pierce
+2 Winter Orb, +2 Surgical Extraction, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Ancient Grudge

Most of this seems obvious, but I brought in Grudge (and left in both Decays) to kill Mox Diamonds and/or sideboard Chalices and Sphere effects. Maybe I should leave in Pierce and board out a Daze instead.

Burn:

-1 Dismember, -2 Daze (on the draw - match only went two games)
+2 Flusterstorm, +1 Hydroblast

I left in Stifles because he was running fetchlands, Grim Lavamancer, and Searing Blaze maindeck. Decays were to kill the creatures and Sulfuric Vortex.

I'm still learning when Daze and Stifle should remain in the deck. My Lands opponent played around Stifle both games, for example, but I should still leave it in, right?

Thanks a lot for the help!

[Draggo]

Hey, y'all, sleeved up 4C Delver for the first time on Friday, beating Lands and Burn and drawing against Jund Nic Fit. I'll post my list, which is probably pretty standard, but am mostly curious about sideboard improvements and strategy.

*....*

I left in Stifles because he was running fetchlands, Grim Lavamancer, and Searing Blaze maindeck. Decays were to kill the creatures and Sulfuric Vortex.

I'm still learning when Daze and Stifle should remain in the deck. My Lands opponent played around Stifle both games, for example, but I should still leave it in, right?

Thanks a lot for the help!

Don't keep Stifles in your deck vs. burn, it's simply not worth it. You either have a chance to hold back a land drop when you have Stifle, hold back a Lavamancer activation or Stifle a suspended Rift Bolt. All these options are sub-par becouse you can't follow up the land lock with Wastelands and holding back a Lavamancer does not fix the problem that there is one on the field.
Just add the Fusterstorms, Hydroblast, GftT and Decay from the board and play the removal game. Remove all creatures and counter PoP. You'll get more life back with the Shaman and the Burn deck should be forced to kill your creatures ASAP becouse you'll have the clock down instead of them. In the long run you'll have a better outcome.
So -3 Stifle -2 Wasteland and add the 5 cards I just said. Should work perfectly.
Keep the Daze in to have a higher chance to counter the Eidelon or grab back some lands when you get hit by a PoP you can't or don't want to counter becouse it will only hit for 2 or 0 damage after the Daze.

[Whitefaces]

While discussing options against Eldrazi a friend of mine suggested Ghost Quarter in the sideboard, thoughts? I've seen this tactic once or twice before but it could be quite effective here as well as Delver mirrors, lands etc.

[Jonathan Alexander]

I ran a Ghost Quarter in my Team America sideboard for a while and I liked it. I would add Loam first, but if you already have that, Ghost Quarter is very reasonable. The extra Wasteland is indeed good in Delver mirrors.

[Whitefaces]

I ran a Ghost Quarter in my Team America sideboard for a while and I liked it. I would add Loam first, but if you already have that, Ghost Quarter is very reasonable. The extra Wasteland is indeed good in Delver mirrors.

Nice to hear it was good for you, I'll run a pair at the next event I go to.

This pains me to write as I love the card, but while I like Loam in theory here I'd prefer to just have another GQ. In Delver mirrors an opposing DRS can to eat the Wastelands, GQs or Loam and vs Eldrazi I want to be pushing the tempo advantage as hard as possible and not tapping two mana each turn. If we're on the draw Loam can be snagged by a TKS or we can already be too far behind on board for it to matter. There is also the problem of just two Trops to cast Loam which can be awkward in Delver mirrors.

[wcm8]

So I've been playi-testing Dan Signorigni's 4C Delver list from the last US Grand Prix (with a few minor SB tweaks) and it seems *really* amazing. I'm actually quite surprised to not see his list catching on more and posting results on Top 8 deck-list aggregator websites -- perhaps if his tiebreakers at GP Columbus were just a single percentage point-or-two better and he made the cut top 8, things would be different and more Delver pilots would be net-decking his list instead of the latest SCG Open Top 8 Grixis list at their local events and SCG Opens.

Regarding Eldritch Moon: I don't think the new set has introduced anything that will significantly impact or influence the Legacy metagame at large, so the deck lists from the Columbus GP are still extremely relevant despite already being a few months old at this point. The only thing that really seems worth testing is Bedlam Reveler -- which I think perhaps could take 1 slot of the Gurmag Angler or a Goyf if the deck incorporated a a copy of Badlands in its land-base... but the mana reduction aspect is actually harder to achieve than it might seem at first glance, *especially* in a Delver deck not running 4 copies of Gitaxian Probe.

link to Dan's GP tournament report and deck list: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...th-BURG-Delver

I'm trying not to come across as a fanboy, but I've been a fan of Dan's approach to deck building for awhile now and I think he and his local playgroup manage to come up with some great ideas. I think when good Legacy players and innovative deck builders such as the Hatfield brothers, Lejay, and of course Dan Signorigni post impressive results with a new deck, it's definitely worth paying attention to. Even if you don't agree with all of their card choices, it's often worth incorporating some aspects of their innovation in your own decks (e.g. Lejay splashing White in BUG Cascade for access to cards like Meddling Mage -- a worthwhile inclusion that patches up some of the weakness that deck has to combo).

Needless to say, all of the following discussion about the deck is just in my opinion and based on my personal perspective and impression of my local Legacy metagame (which is IRL paper Legacy tournaments and FNMs located in and around the NorthEast US). The perspectives might not be as applicable in a different metagame, e.g. MODO or European metagames. Thus, some of the analysis might come across as hyperbolic or even outright wrong based on the decks being played elsewhere. Anyways:

The main 60 is basically as close to Perfection you can get within the Delver archetype, especially given the current card pool and opposing DTBs in the current Legacy metagame. The mixture of spells -- the disruptive and efficient Blue counterspells that have synergy with each other and the 4 Wastelands; the versatile, efficient and powerful removal package of 4 Bolts + 3 Decay that cleans up basically every major and common threat in the format (and is further backed up by the SB removal options); the 13 most efficiently-costed and aggressively-minded aggro/control creatures in the format (with additional pressure provided by SB 3-CMC utility threats); the maximized consistency of the deck's role as the aggressor while disrupting the opponent's gameplan (whatever it may be), achieved with 8 copies of the format's best Blue cantrips... These elements all come together to provide a TON of strategic versatility and raw power. By running 4 Colors, the deck has access to all of the tools necessary to win against basically any Legacy deck -- and the cost of running 4 colors is mitigated by the color-fixing provided by DRS, a fetch/dual mana base, and the simplistic nature of most of the spells only requiring a single color of mana and/or the Duals all providing Blue mana*.

*perhaps it might be worth dropping the 9th fetchland or something else for a Bayou or a Badlands to have better color coverage, at the cost of occasionally awkward hands lacking a Blue source. So far though, the deck as-is with 6 Blue duals + 9 fetches hasn't had much trouble with getting timely access to the color needed for the current game's scenario.

With the deck's power all said, you still need to play very tightly to win. As Dan pointed out in his tournament report, this build needs every turn to be played optimally and turns need to planned out several moves ahead; otherwise you can lose due to a seemingly minor incremental advantage that your opponent achieved. This is different from how other Delver builds often achieve victory: Dan's 4C list often wins in what might seem like "close" games, whereas other Delver decks frequently win in an incredibly lop-sided fashion. The thing is, those same Delver decks frequently *lose* in a similarly lop-sided fashion and lack the cards necessary to come back from a losing board position (e.g. Grixis can lose to a resolved CB or Chalice on 1, and without Decay has a much tougher time getting back into the game). The 4C build has a chance of coming back in practically every game thanks to the mixture of spells (obviously ignoring instances of extreme luck for your opponent or massive misfortune on your part, which are simply a frustrating aspect of MtG -- randomness makes it so that those 80-20 matchups still end up as a loss 20% of the time).

Obviously, 4C Delver has some difficulty against decks that are traditionally good versus Delver.dec, but that's expected. However, and despite the archetype's softness to some strategies (e.g. RG Lands, D&T, Elves, and UWr Miracles to some extent), Dan's 4C list addresses these problematic matchups with its well-thought out card selection, and perhaps more importantly, it does this *without* giving up much power against the decks that Delver is traditionally favored against. Compare this to Brainstorm Brewery's "Miracles Slayer" Delver list (which among other changes, drops Goyf in favor of 4 Nimble Mongoose) -- while that build certainly *does* have a good Miracles matchup, it achieves that by weakening itself against a significant number of other decks that still need to be considered going into a tournament. I don't really think super heavy meta-gaming is an ideal approach in Legacy, as the format simply has so many decks that you're not at all guaranteed to even face the deck you've metagamed against, or at least enough times to justify it. This variety is also partially why I love the format so much.

In contrast, lot of the other Delver decks that only run 2-3 colors generally have a glaring weakness that can be easily exploited by other decks -- e.g. by running mostly 1-drops and not running Decay, you become vulnerable to CounterBalance and Chalice of the Void; conversely running ONLY Decay but not Bolt makes it harder to close out a game and also make it hard to deal with must-answer 1-drops such as opposing DRS or Mother of Runes.

The 4C list's mana base obviously ends up being a bit worse by the nature of running 4 colors, but generally speaking I've not had too many instances of losing to Mana screw.

Deathrite Shaman is definitely broken. Despite my fondness for playing RUG Delver, I think the lack of DRS (and also general weakness to the shaman) makes the deck overall worse in comparison to Delver decks that *do* run DRS. He's a 1-mana planeswalker that does everything and more, and also helps patch up the weaknesses inherent to the archetype -- he provides mana, reach, life-gain, and graveyard disruption. A swiss army creature.

I think a noteworthy aspect of this list is how it's running 5 large threats. I appreciate how running 5 biggies (the 4 Tarmos + 1 Angler) + 4 DRS gives us a huge advantage against other Delver decks, particularly if they are only running Bolts as removal. Even YPyromancer isn't that big of a deal if you can answer him earlier enough, as the 1/1s are little more than temporary speed bumps against a massive Goyf.

Additionally, having Decay to clean up anything that manages to make it on board is a big advantage of playing this deck instead of Grixis. You don't just lose to a resolved permanent, and you also have a removal spell that WILL resolve.

The 15 sideboard cards: I think the GP's sideboard could use a few tweaks, and my changes are mostly based on my local metagame. I dropped Painful Truths entirely -- I'm not as enamored with the card as some people seem to be, but am running 1 Sylvan Library as a method of CA/selection. I also shifted around the removal selections to attack the decks I see locally, so now I am running:

1 Forked Bolt
1 Dark Blast (alternatively, could be a copy of something such as Fire Covenant or Toxic Deluge -- basically another card to beat D&T, UG Infect and Elves. Dark Blast is just really really good in general right now, even against Grixis Delver.)
1 U. JITTE (amazing if you get it running -- Life gain is relevant as well against UR and mono-Burn. I would probably not run it if not playing TNN though.)
1 TNN (this + Jitte = gg. Not really the best threat ever but has a lot of utility against current Tier decks. Seems a bit too narrow for this archetype to run MD though).
1 VClique (could instead be another Flusterstorm if you see more Combo than Miracles.)
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle (alternatives to this and Grudge: Null Rod; Kolaghan's Command)
1 Sylvan Library
2 Pyroblast
2 S.Extraction (a 1/1 split with Grafdigger's Cage is alright in a meta with lots of GY decks; however Surgical is better against RG Lands, most forms of combo, and actually is sometimes worth bringing in against certain Miracles builds by functioning similarly to Stifle)
2 G. Charm -- versatile and necessary to beat decks packing lots of small creatures

Another card that could likely find its way in the list is Winter Orb. I am not sure which card would be best to cut, but given the prevalence of RG Lands, Miracles and Chalice midrange decks, this card is likely worth running -- perhaps a cut to consider is Darkblast if the local trend skews towards decks that are soft to this effect.

I also agree with Dan's comment re: Sulfur Elemental and/or Dread of Night. White creatures (particularly those in D&T, but also Monastery Mentor and the occasionally-encountered Lingering Souls, etc.) make this sort of hate worth considering. Again, not sure which card to cut, possibly Darkblast or Jitte if you consider it to be too slow/un-wieldly. I like running a bunch of cards that can be brought in against a wider range of decks, so at the moment I haven't really felt like these cards are necessary. But then again, I seem to ALWAYS face Death and frickin' Taxes at EVERY event I play, often multiple times within the same event. So perhaps I should over-board to help fight them.

Anyways, hope you're all well! Good luck to my fellow Delver players with whatever tournaments you're playing in this weekend!

[NegatorITA]

So I've been playi-testing Dan Signorigni's 4C Delver list from the last US Grand Prix (with a few minor SB tweaks) and it seems *really* amazing. I'm actually quite surprised to not see his list catching on more and posting results on Top 8 deck-list aggregator websites -- perhaps if his tiebreakers at GP Columbus were just a single percentage point-or-two better and he made the cut top 8, things would be different and more Delver pilots would be net-decking his list instead of the latest SCG Open Top 8 Grixis list at their local events and SCG Opens.

Regarding Eldritch Moon: I don't think the new set has introduced anything that will significantly impact or influence the Legacy metagame at large, so the deck lists from the Columbus GP are still extremely relevant despite already being a few months old at this point. The only thing that really seems worth testing is Bedlam Reveler -- which I think perhaps could take 1 slot of the Gurmag Angler or a Goyf if the deck incorporated a a copy of Badlands in its land-base... but the mana reduction aspect is actually harder to achieve than it might seem at first glance, *especially* in a Delver deck not running 4 copies of Gitaxian Probe.

link to Dan's GP tournament report and deck list: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...th-BURG-Delver

I'm trying not to come across as a fanboy, but I've been a fan of Dan's approach to deck building for awhile now and I think he and his local playgroup manage to come up with some great ideas. I think when good Legacy players and innovative deck builders such as the Hatfield brothers, Lejay, and of course Dan Signorigni post impressive results with a new deck, it's definitely worth paying attention to. Even if you don't agree with all of their card choices, it's often worth incorporating some aspects of their innovation in your own decks (e.g. Lejay splashing White in BUG Cascade for access to cards like Meddling Mage -- a worthwhile inclusion that patches up some of the weakness that deck has to combo).

Needless to say, all of the following discussion about the deck is just in my opinion and based on my personal perspective and impression of my local Legacy metagame (which is IRL paper Legacy tournaments and FNMs located in and around the NorthEast US). The perspectives might not be as applicable in a different metagame, e.g. MODO or European metagames. Thus, some of the analysis might come across as hyperbolic or even outright wrong based on the decks being played elsewhere. Anyways:

The main 60 is basically as close to Perfection you can get within the Delver archetype, especially given the current card pool and opposing DTBs in the current Legacy metagame. The mixture of spells -- the disruptive and efficient Blue counterspells that have synergy with each other and the 4 Wastelands; the versatile, efficient and powerful removal package of 4 Bolts + 3 Decay that cleans up basically every major and common threat in the format (and is further backed up by the SB removal options); the 13 most efficiently-costed and aggressively-minded aggro/control creatures in the format (with additional pressure provided by SB 3-CMC utility threats); the maximized consistency of the deck's role as the aggressor while disrupting the opponent's gameplan (whatever it may be), achieved with 8 copies of the format's best Blue cantrips... These elements all come together to provide a TON of strategic versatility and raw power. By running 4 Colors, the deck has access to all of the tools necessary to win against basically any Legacy deck -- and the cost of running 4 colors is mitigated by the color-fixing provided by DRS, a fetch/dual mana base, and the simplistic nature of most of the spells only requiring a single color of mana and/or the Duals all providing Blue mana*.

*perhaps it might be worth dropping the 9th fetchland or something else for a Bayou or a Badlands to have better color coverage, at the cost of occasionally awkward hands lacking a Blue source. So far though, the deck as-is with 6 Blue duals + 9 fetches hasn't had much trouble with getting timely access to the color needed for the current game's scenario.

With the deck's power all said, you still need to play very tightly to win. As Dan pointed out in his tournament report, this build needs every turn to be played optimally and turns need to planned out several moves ahead; otherwise you can lose due to a seemingly minor incremental advantage that your opponent achieved. This is different from how other Delver builds often achieve victory: Dan's 4C list often wins in what might seem like "close" games, whereas other Delver decks frequently win in an incredibly lop-sided fashion. The thing is, those same Delver decks frequently *lose* in a similarly lop-sided fashion and lack the cards necessary to come back from a losing board position (e.g. Grixis can lose to a resolved CB or Chalice on 1, and without Decay has a much tougher time getting back into the game). The 4C build has a chance of coming back in practically every game thanks to the mixture of spells (obviously ignoring instances of extreme luck for your opponent or massive misfortune on your part, which are simply a frustrating aspect of MtG -- randomness makes it so that those 80-20 matchups still end up as a loss 20% of the time).

Obviously, 4C Delver has some difficulty against decks that are traditionally good versus Delver.dec, but that's expected. However, and despite the archetype's softness to some strategies (e.g. RG Lands, D&T, Elves, and UWr Miracles to some extent), Dan's 4C list addresses these problematic matchups with its well-thought out card selection, and perhaps more importantly, it does this *without* giving up much power against the decks that Delver is traditionally favored against. Compare this to Brainstorm Brewery's "Miracles Slayer" Delver list (which among other changes, drops Goyf in favor of 4 Nimble Mongoose) -- while that build certainly *does* have a good Miracles matchup, it achieves that by weakening itself against a significant number of other decks that still need to be considered going into a tournament. I don't really think super heavy meta-gaming is an ideal approach in Legacy, as the format simply has so many decks that you're not at all guaranteed to even face the deck you've metagamed against, or at least enough times to justify it. This variety is also partially why I love the format so much.

In contrast, lot of the other Delver decks that only run 2-3 colors generally have a glaring weakness that can be easily exploited by other decks -- e.g. by running mostly 1-drops and not running Decay, you become vulnerable to CounterBalance and Chalice of the Void; conversely running ONLY Decay but not Bolt makes it harder to close out a game and also make it hard to deal with must-answer 1-drops such as opposing DRS or Mother of Runes.

The 4C list's mana base obviously ends up being a bit worse by the nature of running 4 colors, but generally speaking I've not had too many instances of losing to Mana screw.

Deathrite Shaman is definitely broken. Despite my fondness for playing RUG Delver, I think the lack of DRS (and also general weakness to the shaman) makes the deck overall worse in comparison to Delver decks that *do* run DRS. He's a 1-mana planeswalker that does everything and more, and also helps patch up the weaknesses inherent to the archetype -- he provides mana, reach, life-gain, and graveyard disruption. A swiss army creature.

I think a noteworthy aspect of this list is how it's running 5 large threats. I appreciate how running 5 biggies (the 4 Tarmos + 1 Angler) + 4 DRS gives us a huge advantage against other Delver decks, particularly if they are only running Bolts as removal. Even YPyromancer isn't that big of a deal if you can answer him earlier enough, as the 1/1s are little more than temporary speed bumps against a massive Goyf.

Additionally, having Decay to clean up anything that manages to make it on board is a big advantage of playing this deck instead of Grixis. You don't just lose to a resolved permanent, and you also have a removal spell that WILL resolve.

The 15 sideboard cards: I think the GP's sideboard could use a few tweaks, and my changes are mostly based on my local metagame. I dropped Painful Truths entirely -- I'm not as enamored with the card as some people seem to be, but am running 1 Sylvan Library as a method of CA/selection. I also shifted around the removal selections to attack the decks I see locally, so now I am running:

1 Forked Bolt
1 Dark Blast (alternatively, could be a copy of something such as Fire Covenant or Toxic Deluge -- basically another card to beat D&T, UG Infect and Elves. Dark Blast is just really really good in general right now, even against Grixis Delver.)
1 U. JITTE (amazing if you get it running -- Life gain is relevant as well against UR and mono-Burn. I would probably not run it if not playing TNN though.)
1 TNN (this + Jitte = gg. Not really the best threat ever but has a lot of utility against current Tier decks. Seems a bit too narrow for this archetype to run MD though).
1 VClique (could instead be another Flusterstorm if you see more Combo than Miracles.)
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle (alternatives to this and Grudge: Null Rod; Kolaghan's Command)
1 Sylvan Library
2 Pyroblast
2 S.Extraction (a 1/1 split with Grafdigger's Cage is alright in a meta with lots of GY decks; however Surgical is better against RG Lands, most forms of combo, and actually is sometimes worth bringing in against certain Miracles builds by functioning similarly to Stifle)
2 G. Charm -- versatile and necessary to beat decks packing lots of small creatures

Another card that could likely find its way in the list is Winter Orb. I am not sure which card would be best to cut, but given the prevalence of RG Lands, Miracles and Chalice midrange decks, this card is likely worth running -- perhaps a cut to consider is Darkblast if the local trend skews towards decks that are soft to this effect.

I also agree with Dan's comment re: Sulfur Elemental and/or Dread of Night. White creatures (particularly those in D&T, but also Monastery Mentor and the occasionally-encountered Lingering Souls, etc.) make this sort of hate worth considering. Again, not sure which card to cut, possibly Darkblast or Jitte if you consider it to be too slow/un-wieldly. I like running a bunch of cards that can be brought in against a wider range of decks, so at the moment I haven't really felt like these cards are necessary. But then again, I seem to ALWAYS face Death and frickin' Taxes at EVERY event I play, often multiple times within the same event. So perhaps I should over-board to help fight them.

Anyways, hope you're all well! Good luck to my fellow Delver players with whatever tournaments you're playing in this weekend!

good analysis, shameful I work 14 hours day each days till september, by the time I'll be able to play again I bet something new will be printed and my deck shifted...
what it's really hard here to understand is what to cut for the sideboard cards, will need a lot of practice.