[Deck] bUrg Tempo

[Lemnear]

Goyf is no issue with Cruise. Somewhere around 99% of the time your opponent will have an instant + land in their grave so goyf stays a 3/4. At most there might not be a creature in their yard, but if we can always pay 1 extra mana and keep ours. Or better yet just not exile our creature and exile another card instead lol.

Because bUrg is the only deck in the format running Treasure Cruise ... ob wait!

[Contract Killer]

Because bUrg is the only deck in the format running Treasure Cruise ... ob wait!

Bug delver or Team America can run Cruise + Goyf. I'll admit UR delver is the "best" cruise deck out there. Other decks can still benefit from Cruise/Dig as well. No more than 3 weeks ago Gerry Thompson handedly beat me with his Shardless BUG build that had I think 2 or 3 Digs in it.

The only reason why there has been somewhat of a decline in RUG Delver and BUG delver is because UR delver is the better aggro deck. Against any tempo/aggro deck UR delver is favored. Combo or midrange like Stoneblade or miracles they're favored against UR delver.

[laserstone]

What happens to burg as an archetype now that cruise is gone? Do we just gravitate away from YPyro and more towards "bug with bolts?"

[phazonmutant]

I played BURG to the top 4 of a 48-person local tournament for duals. The list was solid, fairly happy with it overall. I'm still frustrated at my loss in the semis, as I'll talk about in a bit.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Nimble Mongoose
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sylvan Library
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Stifle
3 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland

// Sideboard
1 Envelop
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Forked Bolt
2 Golgari Charm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Submerge
1 Thoughtseize
1 Sulfuric Vortex

The maindeck felt very solid. Mongoose and Goyf did a lot of work, and I wonder if RUG isn't just better because it plays 4 of each? Maybe Deathrite is more subtly good. It certainly is necessary to shore up the crazy manabase. My mana did manage to work as long as I had lands that could cast my spells. The sideboard was solid, but I wonder if it has too much combo hate. Submerge was a little too narrow. I might like another Forked Bolt.

R1 - WB Stax 2-0 (David Bauman). I Forced and Dazed the spells that mattered, and got Delvers early and often.
R2 - Sneak and Show 2-0 (Andrew Park). He never resolved a relevant spell this match. I manascrewed him hard with Stifle and Wasteland.
R3 - Jeskai Ascendancy Combo 2-0 (Solomon Burgess). Game 1 was very grindy, very close. I won with all of my mana producing lands in play to play Delver with hard-cast Force backup. Game 2 I drew the right spells at the right time. Golgari Charm got to kill an Ascendancy.
R4 - ANT 2-0 (David McDarby). He was playing Prosak's deck, so spent way too long cantripping around, allowing me to develop my mana and draw cards of Sylvan Library both games.
R5 - ID
R6 - ID
Quarters - Merfolk 2-0 (Johnathan Gingrich). I Pierced Vial game 1, then dropped a Goyf, putting him on the back foot from turn 2. Game 2 he was ahead early when he Diverted an Abrupt Decay to my Goyf with Daze backup, but I held on with a Decay on his Vial then some removal for his lords.
Semis - BURg Delver / Pyromancer 0-2 (Glenn Jones). Kind of a frustrating loss because after discussing it with him afterwards, I think I made the correct plays, but he also played tight and drew better.

Going into the match, all I knew was he had Wasteland, Pyromancer, and Deathrite in his deck. Game 1 on the play, my hand was Delver, Wasteland, Stifle, Bolt, Daze, Scalding Tarn, Scalding Tarn. Super solid hand. I led on Delver, he Wasted my land. Very aggressive. I drew a Ponder, flipping Delver, played a Tarn, and passed. He played a fetch and passed. I drew another cantrip, played Wasteland and passed. He played a fetch, cracked it. I cracked mine in response. He responded with a fetch for Sea and Stifle, I responded by Wasting his Sea, and then he resolved his first fetch and Bolted my Delver. I didn't draw lands for 4 turns and he won easily. Was there some other sequence I could have taken to play around his Stifle (that I didn't know he even had in his deck)?
Game 2 I had a decent opener, but drew reactive spells after he had gotten creatures into play, and didn't draw cantrips until too late.

Overall the deck felt great. I didn't drop a game before the Semis. I won a Savannah and a Taiga, so I guess that's cool. I'd play the same maindeck with the sideboard tweaks I mentioned above.

[sdematt]

Too bad you didn't get Blood Mooned into a barrel ;)

-Matt

[lordofthepit]

Going into the match, all I knew was he had Wasteland, Pyromancer, and Deathrite in his deck. Game 1 on the play, my hand was Delver, Wasteland, Stifle, Bolt, Daze, Scalding Tarn, Scalding Tarn. Super solid hand. I led on Delver, he Wasted my land. Very aggressive. I drew a Ponder, flipping Delver, played a Tarn, and passed. He played a fetch and passed. I drew another cantrip, played Wasteland and passed. He played a fetch, cracked it. I cracked mine in response. He responded with a fetch for Sea and Stifle, I responded by Wasting his Sea, and then he resolved his first fetch and Bolted my Delver. I didn't draw lands for 4 turns and he won easily. Was there some other sequence I could have taken to play around his Stifle (that I didn't know he even had in his deck)?

If you really want to play around Stifle, after he cracks his fetchland, you respond by activating Wasteland on his uncracked fetch. This gives you a window to resolve your own fetchland and turn on your Stifle.

You would be 2-for-1'ing yourself, which is better than almost certainly losing on the spot due to tempo loss, but I agree I wouldn't make that play unless I knew for sure he were running Stifle and had a very high likelihood of having it in his hand at the moment.

[alphastryk]

Game 1 on the play, my hand was Delver, Wasteland, Stifle, Bolt, Daze, Scalding Tarn, Scalding Tarn. Super solid hand. I led on Delver, he Wasted my land. Very aggressive. I drew a Ponder, flipping Delver, played a Tarn, and passed. He played a fetch and passed. I drew another cantrip, played Wasteland and passed. He played a fetch, cracked it. I cracked mine in response. He responded with a fetch for Sea and Stifle, I responded by Wasting his Sea, and then he resolved his first fetch and Bolted my Delver. I didn't draw lands for 4 turns and he won easily. Was there some other sequence I could have taken to play around his Stifle (that I didn't know he even had in his deck)?

The only thing I can think is that if he wastes you that aggressively you have to put him on more mana denial - either another Wasteland or a Stifle. In theory you could fetch right away after he does that, but if he has a second Wasteland that's bad - but you can't really do anything about it anyways. It might be worth fetching right away on your turn to play around the potential Stifle.

[phazonmutant]

The only thing I can think is that if he wastes you that aggressively you have to put him on more mana denial - either another Wasteland or a Stifle. In theory you could fetch right away after he does that, but if he has a second Wasteland that's bad - but you can't really do anything about it anyways. It might be worth fetching right away on your turn to play around the potential Stifle.

That's true. If he has a Wasteland, then I can Stifle it and he wastes another turn (heh). There was always Daze to pick up the land too. One of the problems with this deck, though, is the manabase is awkward enough that you want to hold your fetches until you know what land you need.

One line I came up with this morning - since he has two fetches, I can assume that I'll be able to get one of them with my Stifle. So I let his fetch resolve, then Waste his land after he Bolts Delver. If he cracks his fetch to Stifle, I Stifle his fetch and he's left with no permanents. Otherwise we're both in a holding pattern for more lands. The ceiling on this line is the same, and the floor is better. Seems like it's strictly better.

[wcm8]

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...p?DeckID=79211

Any thoughts on this list?

I'm not so keen on Badlands, I think if you really want to resort to a non-blue Dual you'd probably be better of with Bayou, or maybe Taiga. I also am unsure about some of the sideboard choices here, e.g. the single Submerge, Nihil Spellbomb... but overall I could see tempo decks converging into something closely resembling this list. I did a little bit of testing with this list, and the 2 DTT seemed pretty useful.

[alphastryk]

That's true. If he has a Wasteland, then I can Stifle it and he wastes another turn (heh). There was always Daze to pick up the land too. One of the problems with this deck, though, is the manabase is awkward enough that you want to hold your fetches until you know what land you need.

One line I came up with this morning - since he has two fetches, I can assume that I'll be able to get one of them with my Stifle. So I let his fetch resolve, then Waste his land after he Bolts Delver. If he cracks his fetch to Stifle, I Stifle his fetch and he's left with no permanents. Otherwise we're both in a holding pattern for more lands. The ceiling on this line is the same, and the floor is better. Seems like it's strictly better.

Yeah, that seems like a better way to handle it. It's clearly been too long since I've played Stifle myself :)

[JosephK]

Tasigur could bring some fresh air to the deck and relieve the manabase : on a grixis splash G basis, one could come up with :

1 [R] Tropical Island
2 [R] Volcanic Island
3 [R] Underground Sea
4 [KTK] Polluted Delta
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [C13] True-Name Nemesis
3 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
3 [FRF] Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
1 [KTK] Murderous Cut
2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
2 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [DKA] Thought Scour
3 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CNS] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [M11] Lightning Bolt
4 [CNS] Stifle
1 [ROE] Forked Bolt
4 [M12] Ponder
SB: 1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 [C13] Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 [RTR] Golgari Charm
SB: 1 [ISD] Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 [5E] Pyroblast
SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [MOR] Bitterblossom
SB: 1 [ROE] Forked Bolt
SB: 1 [AL] Force of Will

It has the same idea as the first Burg ever created : every threat (almost) costs 1 for a very controllish and reactive tempo deck. Tasigur instead of mongoose for a better late game vs Goyf and Decay (vs BUG). Bitterblossom for MUs with Karakas (and Miracle obv). It's a first draft but you can give it a try.

[nitewolf9]

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...p?DeckID=79211

Any thoughts on this list?

I'm not so keen on Badlands, I think if you really want to resort to a non-blue Dual you'd probably be better of with Bayou, or maybe Taiga. I also am unsure about some of the sideboard choices here, e.g. the single Submerge, Nihil Spellbomb... but overall I could see tempo decks converging into something closely resembling this list. I did a little bit of testing with this list, and the 2 DTT seemed pretty useful.

The list was designed so that you can play all your spells off of 2 lands, tropical island and badlands, if needs be. All your threats deploy off of trop, so it is usually the first land fetched, and also why trop is a 3 of. Badlands also helps you against combo decks with fetch sequencing since casting Thoughtseize and Pyroblast are more important early and can lead to awkward hands if it wasn't in the deck. My GP list had a taiga and a badlands with 2 trops, but having stifle over cruise means having more blue early is important.

Submerge was decided on because I wanted another card vs elves and RUG, but is probably just better as decay #4 or even terminate, as there are guys that can't get decayed and it's nice to just have a "kill anything" spell. Pulse is also an option, albeit and expensive one. Spellbomb is simply another card to bring in vs RUG as I expected more mongoose, and is very good to hit off of a dig vs dredge or lands, but I can see trying to fit 1 or 2 surgical extractions in there instead.

[btm10]

I've gotten a little bored with BUG Delver and am thinking of switching decks. I might just play BUG Control, but this bUrg has also been on my radar. To be direct - why should I play bUrg over BUG? From the look of it I get worse Miracles, D&T, and combo matchups in exchange for a better Elves matchup. Am I totally off base in thinking like this?

[Lucipher2k]

Hey there!

At the time I'm trying some different stuff in this deck, so I might share my list first.

MB:

4x Delver if Secrets
4x Nimble Mongoose
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x True Name Nemesis / 2x Tasigur, the golden Fang

4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Stifle
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Spell Pierce
1x Flex Slot ---> I try different things here and I'm quite not sure if that should be just a 1-off or maybe a 3rd Decay/Pierce

7x Fetch
2x Tropical Island
2x Volcanic Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Taiga
4x Wasteland

SB:

3x Pyroblast
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Sylvan Library
2x Golgari Charm / 2x Marsh Casualties
2x Submerge
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Disfigure

That's for the list. The sideboard is just thrown together, so it's not finished yet and needs a little more tuning if anybody of you got an idea.
The Meta where I play consists of something like this: Miracles, Death and Taxes, UWr Variants, Sneak and Show, Reanimator, Delver (RUG, BUG), Storm, Elves, Shardless, Infect and some other random decks.
I don't really know if I got enough/the right in my board against all/the most of the decks.

[Totenstille]

Hi Folks,
This is my First Post To the burg thread.
I am a German Guy and my english is Not that good
Sry for that.

I Play burg now for a Few weeks and i am very happy with it.
Lebt me Start with my List and some explanations To the Card choices.

4 wastelands
7 fetch
3 Underground seas
2 Tropical Island
1 volcanic
1 Taiga

4 delver
1 tnn
3 Goyf
3 deathrite
2 tasigur

4 Brainstorm
3 ponder
4 Lightning bolts
4 Stifle
1 spell Pierce
2 spell snare
4 daze
3 Force
2 Decay
1 Life from the loam ( flex. Slot)
1 izzet charm

Sideboard :
1 zuran Orb
1 Maelstrom pulse
1 golgari charm
1 toxic deluge
1 Dread of Night
1 vendilion Clique
2 ancient grudge
2 curgical extractions
2 spell Pierce
2 pyroblast
1 Force of will

13 creatures i feel its the right number.
29 Spells is the Minimum To flip delver efficintly.
Tasigur is in my Testing Phase right now i cuttet mongoose
For him. I feel mongoose + tasigur isnt a good Match.
I feel thresholde is Not That Easy To resch and delve kills it.
The loam is in my maindeck cus i Sideboard it in quiet often
And can go down To 18 Land with it.
It wins some Games in combination with wasteland.
I think tarmogoyf is so efficient that we cant refuse To Play him.

Feel free To ASK or Post something that we can discuss

[SecludedGlenn]

One line I came up with this morning - since he has two fetches, I can assume that I'll be able to get one of them with my Stifle. So I let his fetch resolve, then Waste his land after he Bolts Delver. If he cracks his fetch to Stifle, I Stifle his fetch and he's left with no permanents. Otherwise we're both in a holding pattern for more lands. The ceiling on this line is the same, and the floor is better. Seems like it's strictly better.

This line gets you completely blown out by Daze (he counters your Stifle and saves his land from your Wasteland). In general, you should try to avoid casting spells in response to Wasteland activations against tempo decks for this reason.

[Plague Sliver]

The list was designed so that you can play all your spells off of 2 lands, tropical island and badlands, if needs be. All your threats deploy off of trop, so it is usually the first land fetched, and also why trop is a 3 of. Badlands also helps you against combo decks with fetch sequencing since casting Thoughtseize and Pyroblast are more important early and can lead to awkward hands if it wasn't in the deck. My GP list had a taiga and a badlands with 2 trops, but having stifle over cruise means having more blue early is important.

Submerge was decided on because I wanted another card vs elves and RUG, but is probably just better as decay #4 or even terminate, as there are guys that can't get decayed and it's nice to just have a "kill anything" spell. Pulse is also an option, albeit and expensive one. Spellbomb is simply another card to bring in vs RUG as I expected more mongoose, and is very good to hit off of a dig vs dredge or lands, but I can see trying to fit 1 or 2 surgical extractions in there instead.

Dan! Didn't know you were still rocking Delver in the free world! Sad to see it's not Team America, but it's still a tempo shell.

What decks did you face at the Invitational?

[Lucipher2k]

I don't know if it has been asked before and didn't found any information about that, so I'd like to know of you all what's your experience with Stifle?
Yesterday I've played several games against different kinds of decks (RUG, BUG, TES, ANT, Belcher, Infect, Miracles, etc.) and I'm not really happy with Stifle. I play three main and it was like either I didn't draw a single copy or my opponents knew about it and played around (Probe, Discard).

Is it just me or is it really that Stifle got worse after game 1 where your opponent knows on what you're?
What do you think about it?

[crush]

I play 3 stifles and am quite happy with this configuration. I could see myself go up to 4, but not lower then 3. Many people here reported good results with 0 stifles, so this is surely a viable option.

I guess it all depends how you would like your deck to function. If you play 0 stifles, you enter deep midrange territory - the question is, aren't you better of playing something else then? Also, I think 0 stifles only work as long as your opponents believe you have them in your deck and play around them :)

[Contract Killer]

I've gotten a little bored with BUG Delver and am thinking of switching decks. I might just play BUG Control, but this bUrg has also been on my radar. To be direct - why should I play bUrg over BUG? From the look of it I get worse Miracles, D&T, and combo matchups in exchange for a better Elves matchup. Am I totally off base in thinking like this?

Burg is a bit of a broad deck in terms of what you can play in it. The main advantage to it over bug is that you gain red so not all of your removal is decay, disfigure, and maybe lili. Disfigure is Ok bolt is just more flexible and lili is a bit of mana intensive when it comes to removal. The other nice addition red brings is pyroblast out of the board which of you ask me increases your miracles match up. Combo match ups again I would say get better because you get pyroblast.

The other main addition burg gets is young pyromancer. Personally I think goyf is better but they play completely different so that's not a fair comparison. I'm also not very family with the yp builds maybe someone more experienced could explain that build.

After that it just depends on what form of burg and bug you're comparing. Both can go all in on the tempo plan with geese and stifle or more midrange with tnn/tasigur/lili etc.