[Deck] Ur Landstill

[pandaman]

Edit: the defining list is Lam Phan's GP Top 8 beast. Although he lost out to Infect in the Top 8 he crushed through the metagame with manland beats under Standstill, eschewing the much more popular draw engine, Treasure Cruise. Although Cruise has been banned and the metagame has changed, Lam's list is still a good place to start.

*LANDS

4*Wasteland

4*Scalding Tarn

4*Mishra's Factory

4*Volcanic Island

2*Snow-Covered Island

2*Faerie Conclave

1*Snow-Covered Mountain

1*Wooded Foothills

1*Misty Rainforest

1*Flooded Strand

3 CREATURES

3*Snapcaster Mage

29 INSTANTS and SORC.

4*Stifle

4*Lightning Bolt

4*Brainstorm

4*Force of Will

3*Spell Pierce

3*Spell Snare

3*Sudden Shock

2*Counterspell

1*Dig Through Time

1*Treasure Cruise

4 OTHER SPELLS

3*Standstill

1*Jace, the Mind Sculptor

SIDEBOARD

1*Red Elemental Blast

4*Relic of Progenitus

2*Surgical Extraction

2*Pyroblast

3*Pyroclasm

2*Engineered Explosives

1*Flusterstorm



Note - primer in progress, please bear with me!

Conception

I have always liked Landstill. Playing the Legacy-legal Ancestral Recall seems to have waned in popularity lately but I still love drawing 3 and the frown-inducing 2-cost Blue enchantment that could.

But how to keep it viable? I enjoyed the emergence of Abrupt Decay in Legacy and played UBg Landstill for a while but I got onto thinking about other colours when I identified (subsequently highlighted by Carsten Cotter in his article '10 to try' [editor's note: correct name and URL to come]) that Pyroclasm is insane in the format right now. All the Elves, Deathrite Shaman, Noble Hierarch, Stoneforge Mystic, pretty much every creature in Death & Taxes, Shardless Agent, Snapcaster Mage, Vendillion Clique, Merfolk of all size and description (subject to pump from Lords) - Pyroclasm kills then all for the bargain -basement cost of a colourless and a red.

I decided to abandon the UBg Landstill shell and see what Ur had to offer.

This is what I've developed so far.

Ur Landstill by pandaman - 4 September 2013


Lands (25)

2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
1 Barbarian Ring

Instants (22)

4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm

Planeswalkers (4)

4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Enchantments (4)

4 Standstill

Artifacts (4)

2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Engineered Explosives

Sorceries (2)

2 Pyroclasm

Sideboard (15)

2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Dismember
2 Firespout
2 Ancient Grudge

Preboard strategy

In short, hang around and kill or counter creatures until you can resolve a Standstill, accumulate card advantage into a Jace or a Crucible for a fateseal or recurring manland win.

Pyroclasm helps you gain advantage with favourable 2 and 3 for 1s as its low cost allows it to be available early. Engineered Explosives is excellent at handling planeswalkers, as is Lightning Bolt. A significant counter package allows you to win the counter war the majority of the time.

Postboard strategy

Post board, the deck can shore up its weaknesses. Force of Wills can come out for Firespouts and Dismembers against creature decks. Against fellow control decks Red Elemental Blasts provide good answers for Jace and Counterbalance both on the stack and on the battlefield. Against combo, stack in as many counter spells as you can. Ancient Grudge deals with artifacts for good value, and Relic of Progenitus doubles as graveyard hate and Mongoose and Goyf-shrinker extrordinaire.

The deck is quite strong against aggro, aggro control and control strategies, where it assumes the role of the control deck most of the time, forcing the opponent into plays. However, it is somewhat weak against combo, RUG Delver, and big creatures such as Knight of the Reliquary and Tarmogoyf. If you don't have a counter for something with toughness of more than 3, you have to rely on your 2-of Engineered Explosives, which isn't ideal.

All in all, the Red performs better than I expected it to. Staying 2 colours versus 3 is great for man's consistency, and Lightning Bolt finishes both planeswalkers and players off nicely. And NO ONE sees Pyroclasm coming maindeck!

The deck needs work. A single dual in a fourth colour would allow the deck to Engineered Explosives for 4 and kill Jace. Submerge seems like a great sideboard card. Fire//Ice could replace 2 of the Counter spells in the deck to give some utility and increased possibilities for value.

Please, help tune with me!

[pandaman]

Reserved for specific matchup analysis and further expansion of primer.

[SirTylerGalt]

I love U/R Landstill. I remember an interesting discussion about it a few months ago, which you might like: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...UR-StifleStill

[pandaman]

I love U/R Landstill. I remember an interesting discussion about it a few months ago, which you might like: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...UR-StifleStill

Thank you for that link, Sir, was very interesting reading. I got a lot out of it.

Looking at the above list, I have some immediate changes I will make and try out:

-1 Volcanic Island +1 Underground Sea

I really want to be able to Engineered Explosives for CMC 4 permanents, it gives the deck a lot more resiliency against Jace and Elspeth.

-1 Misty Rainforest +1 Island.

I really want to be able to run off all basics if necessary.

-1 Counterspell +1 Fire//Ice.

I think 3 Counterspell is good when I might not reliably make UU on Turn 2. I will give Fire//Ice a try for good utility potential.

Other changes I am thinking about are:

To Snapcaster or not to Snapcaster?
A 5th (or more) manland?
Is Izzet Charm actually that good?
A third Pyroclasm?

Would appreciate your thoughts.

[frogger42]

I'm trying to run Landstill right now, and Wasteland + Factory is a pain because of the lack of blue. I like switching out a Waste or two for Tolaria West, which also gets Eng Exp. And 7 Fetches is probably high, I think 5-6 is generally good enough (I tend to run 4-5 - I like having more lands to fetch out).
Pyroclasm's a neat idea, but I think I still really like Supreme Verdict.

[pandaman]

I'm trying to run Landstill right now, and Wasteland + Factory is a pain because of the lack of blue. I like switching out a Waste or two for Tolaria West, which also gets Eng Exp. And 7 Fetches is probably high, I think 5-6 is generally good enough (I tend to run 4-5 - I like having more lands to fetch out).
Pyroclasm's a neat idea, but I think I still really like Supreme Verdict.

I get the pain of not having enough blue mana sometimes. That is a big reason why I'm considering whether I should be running Counterspell and Izzet Charm, or whether I should be cutting them and running things like Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, and Fire//Ice, which don't require UU or UR and can be cast with 1 colourless mana.

I also agree that I might not need 7 Fetches. I might try to cut down to 6. Thanks for the suggestion.

I used to run a singleton Tolaria West in UW Landstill, but I just absolutely hate CIPT lands... it's one of the main reasons I hate Faerie Conclave. Also, again, it's UU to transmute. But it is certainly not off the table and I will make sure to test it again.

Finally, I do love me some Supreme Verdict, but I am trying to attack the meta a bit more with this deck, for which Pyroclasm seems very good value.

[frogger42]

Finally, I do love me some Supreme Verdict, but I am trying to attack the meta a bit more with this deck, for which Pyroclasm seems very good value.

Yeah, I think Pyroclasm might actually be fairly legit. I'd probably max out on it while playtesting just to see how useful it is in the meta, then cut down to 2-3. Wrath always was a 1-2 of because of casting cost, but having a wrath at 2 mana might change that traditional idea.
Also, Firespout used to be pretty decent. I'd still try running Pyroclasm over it, but just make a mental note when that extra damage (Mongoose and maybe Lodestone Golem, Merfolk) would make a difference.

The CIP on Tolaria West does suck, but so does pitching double-Waste hands. I like doing 2 because multiple Wastes aren't any more special with Crucible anyway. Waste-lock isn't what it used to be nowadays.
Good luck with testing!

[Qweerios]

As much as I love UR landstill, It never compares to white. I have tried and tried multiple times to make it work but there are too many drawbacks of going red and very little benefits.

1) Sending a Bolt to the face is 99.9% win-more because by the time we start inflicting damage, we have a good grip on the board. Compared to StP, it doesn't answer all creatures (Goyf, Tombstalker, KotR mostly) and as soon as a single one sticks, we get a headache.

2) If your opponent plays a Liliana or Elspeth, he will immediatly be out of Bolt range. A single fateseal also puts Jace out of Bolt range. It is much easier to save counters for a planeswalker than it is to save them for every Goyf your opponent plays.

3) Even though Pyroclasm is an extremely powerful card at the moment, it isn't good enough for Landstill because it doesn't provide the required effect of sweeping the board unconditionally. You are left with the same problems as article 1.

4) REB/Pyro are a welcomed addition but I don't think they make up for the loss of Elspeth, Supreme Verdict, Oblivion Ring/Detention Sphere, Disenchant, Humility, Moat, Enlightened Tutor...

If you want to be in control of the game, you have to react to your opponent accordingly. Relying on multiple cards to handle a single one is doomed to fail. It is hard enough as it is to find everything you need by drawing 3 cards or brainstorming, I can't imagine finding the right cards in time when my opponent's turn 2 play puts me on a 4-5 turn clock. Overall when you compare red to white as a complementary color for a dedicated control landstill deck, white wins by a significant margin.

...On to constructive criticism!

I would recommend Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, and Faerie Conclave for a UR list. Trying to play all-out control won't work for the reasons stated above. One of the strong points of a red splash in landstill is that you can easely flashback your sweeper and get additional reach with Bolts. Snapcaster on Bolt answers planeswalkers much better than a lone bolt and can potentially block and kill a Goyf by flashing a Bolt. The big selling point of flash creatures for landstill is that they are the quickest path to board superiority while leaving mana open for counterspells. A turn 2 Snapcaster was a frequent play of mine because it forced my opponent to blow up my turn 3 Standstill. Clique and Conclave both fly and will put evasive pressure on your opponent in the cases that you don't have answers to, say, a Goyf but that you manage to stall him or get your opponent low enough to race and finish him with Bolts. In other words, having flying flash creatures gives the reach of Bolt a bit more relevance. As a bonus to all that, Faerie Conclave is a blue source that will untap through Choke.

4 copies of Counterspell is too many with 14 blue sources... Well, 14 blue sources is too low to begin with, I suggest going up at at least 16-18. You don't need a basic Mountain because your opponent will always be able to set you back with Wastelands... And for Blood Moon, you get the point. The early stages of the game is where you will have the most trouble, I suggest cutting at least 2 Counterspells for another Spell Snare and another Spell Pierce. Spell Snare is crucial for any UR Control deck. Most card advantage cards tend to be 2 mana as well (SFM, Snap, Hymn, Strix, CB, Foundry, Chalice, Bob).

One way that I found to increase my colored sources was to replace 2 of my 4 Wastelands for 2 Tropical Islands and replaced 2 Crucibles with 1 Intuition and 1 Life from the Loam. By doing so I splashed into green for EE @3, SB Krosan Grip for Counterbalance, and I enabled Intuition piles with LftL + Academy Ruins + EE/Zuran Orb/Pithing Needle/Vedalken Shackles. You will inevitably end up drawing less Wastelands but you will draw more blue lands. You can also achieve a Wastelock with LftL and 2 Wastelands via Intuition. Another really important aspect of LftL is that, unlike Crucible, it doesn't get Decayed (deck is Decay-proof now) and it puts 3 cards in your hand for you to convert into fuel via Jace or Brainstorm. Being URg with Intuition and LftL also gives you access to Punishing Grove as well. A single copy of each is enough to get the recursion going with a single Intuition.

This might be a crazy idea but they just printed a 2RG Planeswalker that puts 2/2 Haste tokens on the battlefield, perhaps he's worth looking into as an Elspeth replacement.

[Mesercus]

Agree with qweerios this deck could work if tuned to use the red splash strenght: tempo and a clock so you can end the game with damage instead of fatesealing.
-1 barbarian ring , +1 island.
i'd cut a couple of counterspells for 2 cheap rebounds

[pandaman]

Thanks for the comments, very helpful. I agree, I have been thinking about it more and more and I came to the same conclusion that, for a control Standstill build, White is strictly better. I agree that Red should focus more on being tempo-inclined.

So the immediate changes are some that have been suggested: Snapcaster Mage, Vendillion Clique and Faerie Conclave in, Counterspell out and replaced with more copies of Spell Snare and Spell Pierce. Jace number reduced down.

Will see how it plays out at next week's local tourney.

[pandaman]

Here is my updated list, which I intend to take to next week's local weekly tournament:

Maindeck (61)

Land (24)

1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Academy Ruins

Creatures (4)

4 Snapcaster Mage

Instants (26)

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Mana Leak
1 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Intuition

Sorceries (1)

1 Life from the Loam

Enchantments (4)

4 Standstill

Planeswalkers (1)

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts (1)

1 Engineered Explosives

Sideboard (15)

4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Life from the Loam


I have taken on board the use of Red - including Lightning Bolt in a deck almost by necessity changes its focus to tempo, by virtue of the fact that it does direct damage. Also, with the use of Snapcaster, you can Bolt, EoT flash in Snapcaster, flash back Bolt, then swing the next turn. Even better, you drop a Standstill before you swing the next turn! That's 8 damage and some good card advantage going.

Still sticking to a high land count, with 24. However, I've increased the man-land count to 6 to better support the tempo strategy under Standstill.

I have put a lot of conditional counters in the deck - Pierce and Mana Leak - to allow the deck to (hopefully) operate off two basic lands while the other mana is used for animating man-lands and swinging.

Stifle gets the nod because it has excellent synergy with Wasteland and supports the tempo strategy.

Finally, a smattering of control elements complete the package: Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and an Intuition package (for Loam, Academy Ruins and Engineered Explosives). This reduces my Abrupt Decay exposure to zero.

Essentially, the strategy will be early-game disruption with soft counters, Stifle and Wasteland, sneak in a Snapcaster/play a man-land and start the beats under a Standstill, using it to refill with answers. Certainly, I aim to make it a lot harder for Green decks to stick Mongeese, Goyfs and Knights.

[SirTylerGalt]

Here is my updated list, which I intend to take to next week's local weekly tournament:

Maindeck (61)

Land (24)

1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Academy Ruins

Creatures (4)

4 Snapcaster Mage

Instants (26)

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Mana Leak
1 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Intuition

Sorceries (1)

1 Life from the Loam

Enchantments (4)

4 Standstill

Planeswalkers (1)

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts (1)

1 Engineered Explosives

Sideboard (15)

4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Life from the Loam

I think you need a second Tropical Island for the Loam package. If you run a single green mana-source, they can shut down Loam by wasting it.

[Norm]

Is Grim Lavamancer not awesome in this deck, especially with the current meta?

I feel like Grim + Wasteland is super good against 3-4 color decks with Deathrite Shaman to lean on.

[Malakai]

Standstill is not a viable card. It hasn't been for a couple years now.

[thefreakaccident]

Standstill is not a viable card. It hasn't been for a couple years now.

This is definitely still a good card, nothing has changed that. It is still an ancestral recall for two, cannot be stifled nor abrupt decayed. It is still at the very least as fast as a cascade into ancestral visions.

[Survex]

This is definitely still a good card, nothing has changed that. It is still an ancestral recall for two, cannot be stifled nor abrupt decayed. It is still at the very least as fast as a cascade into ancestral visions.

To the OP.

I've been having pretty good success with Landstill, but I would suggest running Crucible of Worlds somewhere in that sixty and if you are going to run academy ruins you could consider nevinyrral's disk as disk locking people is pretty gg. I don't like Barbarian Ring at all I would recommend playing another fetchland and some brainstorms. In regards to Stifle, that card is just insane. I am not sure I would ever play a blue deck without it, it just has way too many applications. Can randomly blow people out by Stifling: Living Weapon, Batterskull's Bounce ability, can get opp's Ancestral Visions off suspend, storm, fetchlands and more. The way you want to play UR is being very aggressive and play the tempo game and aggressively attack with Factories. Surprisingly they actually die fairly fast.

Original UR List from xShockwaveX
U/R Landstill

3x Standstill
3x Spell Snare
3x Spell Pierce
3x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Brainstorm
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Stifle
1x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Ratchet Bomb or Engineered Explosives

4x Wasteland
4x Volcanic Island
3x Island
1x Mountain
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Faerie Conclave
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Misty Rainforest

I was playing this but I did find that I needed a way to deal with some boom-booms like Goyf, or honestly just have extra removal. I went with the greedy way of adding white to the deck. I'm not sure that the way I added it into the manabase was correct or even ideal, but it played good.

URw Landstill

3 Standstill
3 Spell pierce
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Stifle
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Brainstorm

4 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Faerie Conclave

Sideboard:
3 Relic of progenitus
2 Surgical extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Wear/Tear
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Pyroclasm


To finish off I loved the way the above list played and I actually felt like I had no hard matchups or everything just came down to like player skill or decisions during the match. The only cards I can see being literally impossible to beat is Thrun and a resolved Blood Moon/Back to Basics. Literally the only way to deal with Thrun is playing Crucible of Worlds and land locking yourself with Mishra's Factories which is only parity and not actually beating the card.

[pandaman]

0-4 at the local last night. Even managed to lost a game against TES where he cracked 3 of my Standstills and I had a Snapcaster Mage beating since Turn 3 under a Standstill. No counters to be seen for hi Silence after drawing 9 cards off a Standstill and 2 Brainstorms.

A little upset, but it happens.

Thoughts on the latest incarnation of the list.

Intuition package blows, give me back my Crucible of Worlds!

Barbarian Ring is meant for a more controlling build of Land still, it is getting cut.

I need more removal of some description. Maybe a White slash for Swords to Plowshares? You would have to try and be disciplined in using it though, only when necessary because it messes up your tempo game.

New list to come shortly...

[pandaman]

@Survex, thank you for contributing! And I like your list, I think my list is likely to go the way yours is. Congratulations on your latest finish with it, well done!

[Mesercus]

try some steal-creatures cards ;)

[MGB]

Here is a UR Landstill deck that did well at a Vintage tournament:

http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.ph...8&iddeck=81139

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Dismember
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Mental Misstep
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Spell Pierce
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

Enchantments [4]
4 Standstill

Planeswalkers [4]
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts [7]
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Engineered Explosives

Lands [24]
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
2 Island
2 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland

SB:
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Goblin Welder
1 Firespout

This list is very portable to Legacy. Take out Library, Strip Mine, Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, and the two Moxen. Sub 4 Counterspell for the 4 Mana Drain.

I feel as if it is a mistake to go with Snapcaster Mages. Landstill is a *control* deck, not a tempo deck. All Snapcaster does is provide a body attached to an answer in the graveyard. Instead, what Landstill realy wants is bulk quantities of answers and the cheapest possible answers. Snapcastering a Counterspell means you are playing a 4 mana counterspell and the 2/1 body is often not that important to you because all you want to do is control the board and land a Jace.

I would definitely stick with the 4 Jace, 4 Standstill, 4 Counterspell, 4 Force build and go heavy on the Engineered Explosives.

Also worthy of consideration is a Blood Moon in the sideboard.