[Deck] Ur Landstill

[warfordium]

It's "win-more" to play a creature that doesn't answer things like snapcaster does. If you have standstill out then you're doing well anyhow and the manlands are a better wincon.

I think this deck wants to play almost all "answer" cards and very few others (standstill and cow).

the other major advantage i see is how the deck basically ignores Abrupt Decay—it lines up very poorly against standstill and manlands. you have more manlands than they have wastelands (and your own wastelands to protect your manlands), the threats that are susceptible to abrupt decay (snapcaster and clique) come down at instant speed and either push the things you can't deal with, or re-buy your answers.

[pandaman]

With the possibility of going U/R/w for StP...

What do you think about 4x Figure of Destiny? Turn1 Figure, Turn2 Standstill... now they're in a predicament, break Standstill or let you sit and turn him into a 4/4 spirit warrior in a couple turns.

Figure is a good card. However, you need to have white or red mana to pump it, so part of me thinks if I was going that way I would just spend one mana on a Delver. Additionally, I don't know if I would ever get enough coloured mana I wouldn't want to use activating and swinging with manlands. At the moment I am trying to stay away from creatures other than flash creatures, to better sneak them under Standstills.

[thefreakaccident]

I have been playing a delver deck with a few standstills in it, and it has been doing great. It has all the answers/cantrips and threats as delver, with the potential to force down a standstill on top of the turn one delver/whathaveyou. It doesn't slow down the clock whatsoever.

[Survex]

My altered shockwave list was similar to yours, I always found that three conclave was awkward when you have two in your opener or have one in your opener and draw the second one soon after. I switched to U/R/w as a metagame call to have more answers to deathrite shamans and tarmogoyfs. It just so happened to be awesome against the decks in the local metagame where I was playing, lots of elves, shardless bug, delver decks, merfolk, etc. I've tried Grim Lavamancer before in a previous build back in the day. The card is pretty good, but it seemed to be at it's best when Merfolk was popular, I personally wouldn't run it currently as we have lots of things to do with 1 mana.

[mini1337s]

My altered shockwave list was similar to yours, I always found that three conclave was awkward when you have two in your opener or have one in your opener and draw the second one soon after. I switched to U/R/w as a metagame call to have more answers to deathrite shamans and tarmogoyfs. It just so happened to be awesome against the decks in the local metagame where I was playing, lots of elves, shardless bug, delver decks, merfolk, etc. I've tried Grim Lavamancer before in a previous build back in the day. The card is pretty good, but it seemed to be at it's best when Merfolk was popular, I personally wouldn't run it currently as we have lots of things to do with 1 mana.

Halifax meta is Delver/burn heavy. In general, it's difficult to stick a Grim Lavamancer and have it do any lasting damage, and it's near impossible here. Swords to Plowshares is also much more relevant with Snapcaster Mage.

While I don't have any experience with it, Sulfuric Vortex seems like a house coming out of the side. With Factory and Snapcaster beats, it seems like it quickly tilts the game in your favor.

[Survex]

Halifax meta is Delver/burn heavy. In general, it's difficult to stick a Grim Lavamancer and have it do any lasting damage, and it's near impossible here. Swords to Plowshares is also much more relevant with Snapcaster Mage.

While I don't have any experience with it, Sulfuric Vortex seems like a house coming out of the side. With Factory and Snapcaster beats, it seems like it quickly tilts the game in your favor.

Vortex is pretty taxing on the manabase requiring double red :(, it could fit in the blue/red shell. I really can't think of a matchup where I would want that card out of the board though.. It does seem cool in theory, just not for this deck. The only time I think the card could be applicable is against control decks, but I think any control matchup is already insane for landstill.

[thefreakaccident]

Vortex is a crazy idea. Out of the question, as you are more than likely going to be the one on the defensive.

[UnderwaterGuy]

Halifax meta is Delver/burn heavy. In general, it's difficult to stick a Grim Lavamancer and have it do any lasting damage, and it's near impossible here. Swords to Plowshares is also much more relevant with Snapcaster Mage.

While I don't have any experience with it, Sulfuric Vortex seems like a house coming out of the side. With Factory and Snapcaster beats, it seems like it quickly tilts the game in your favor.

I like Sulfur Elemental instead of the vortex (still a sulfur card). It's uncounterable so it's fantastic to bring in against control decks and white decks that play mom/thalia/stuff. Most importantly though, flash means that we can actually cast this card safely when we get the chance. Spells need to be back-breaking to risk casting them on a main phase and I think playing more than just a very few cow's and jace is reckless.

[Survex]

I like Sulfur Elemental instead of the vortex (still a sulfur card). It's uncounterable so it's fantastic to bring in against control decks and white decks that play mom/thalia/stuff. Most importantly though, flash means that we can actually cast this card safely when we get the chance. Spells need to be back-breaking to risk casting them on a main phase and I think playing more than just a very few cow's and jace is reckless.

I can get behind the idea of having Sulfur Elemental out of the board. I think it would be pretty sweet. Just depends on the meta and the card surprisingly fits the deck well having flash and all.

[pandaman]

I went to the dark side last local, ladies and gentlement, playing UR Dreadstill. I wanted to see how UR would work with a blazing fast clock (Delver and Dreadnought). Not surprisingly, it works well. But Abrupt Decay is such a pain in the ass. And actually relying on creatures that aren't lands makes abrupt decay and all sorcery speed removal live, which is a real headache. The deck felt all-or-nothing, but sans Dreadnought and adding Snapcaster, it feels bottomless in terms of answers most of the time. I can imagine that when I add StP (testing tonight with the boys) it will feel even more that way.

Will report back my testing results tomorrow, hopefully. Work has curtailed my participating in tomorrow's big legacy event (first prize English Moat) but I will still be playing 4 eternal events over the weekend so I will be happy! Plus my Mox Sapphire showed up in the mail *does a dance*

[pandaman]

Back with more testing results, this time with the addition of White for 3 Swords to Plowshares. Left EE in to see how it ran, but shaved a Counterspell, Spell Pierce, and Spell Snare to fit the StPs in. Finally the deck is starting to be able to tempo Shardless BUG like I had envisaged. I definitely agree that Swords are required. Stifle continues to be amazing, but against other Wasteland decks I'm wondering if I am using it correctly sometimes when I Stifle fetchlands. Should I be using them more defensively to nullify their Wastelands? It may be a situational decision. I shall play more and see how it turns out.

Next on the testing dais will be Jace and EE I think, and also the mana base. 3 Conclave could well be clunky but the increased manland count, especially flying manland, really helps against Jace. When you both get into topdeck mode, the deck REALLY needs to be chipping awaway for damage, that is what wins you most games, it seems.

I also cut 1 Standstill, going down to 3. Had a little more trouble finding one. You have to pay very careful attention to ensure you always have an optimal board state to drop one if you draw it. But that is what makes this deck so fun!

Of course, the devil on my shoulder is always telling me to play Shardless BUG so you can topdeck a Shardless Agent on an empty board and hand, cascade into Baleful Strix and draw and play a Tarmogoyf. And people say that Standstill annoys them!!!!

[Survex]

Back with more testing results, this time with the addition of White for 3 Swords to Plowshares. Left EE in to see how it ran, but shaved a Counterspell, Spell Pierce, and Spell Snare to fit the StPs in. Finally the deck is starting to be able to tempo Shardless BUG like I had envisaged. I definitely agree that Swords are required. Stifle continues to be amazing, but against other Wasteland decks I'm wondering if I am using it correctly sometimes when I Stifle fetchlands. Should I be using them more defensively to nullify their Wastelands? It may be a situational decision. I shall play more and see how it turns out.

Next on the testing dais will be Jace and EE I think, and also the mana base. 3 Conclave could well be clunky but the increased manland count, especially flying manland, really helps against Jace. When you both get into topdeck mode, the deck REALLY needs to be chipping awaway for damage, that is what wins you most games, it seems.

I also cut 1 Standstill, going down to 3. Had a little more trouble finding one. You have to pay very careful attention to ensure you always have an optimal board state to drop one if you draw it. But that is what makes this deck so fun!

Of course, the devil on my shoulder is always telling me to play Shardless BUG so you can topdeck a Shardless Agent on an empty board and hand, cascade into Baleful Strix and draw and play a Tarmogoyf. And people say that Standstill annoys them!!!!

Glad to see you're enjoying it, in regards to how to play with stifle it often just comes down to your hand and play experience. Generally what I like to do is fire off the stifle unless they play around it by just not cracking fetches on their early turns, and if they do that - generally just save it for CITP effects or saving manlands, etc. Another situation is that, if you're manalight and need to protect your early duals or manlands, definitely hold stifle for wastelands.

[warfordium]

here's the list i put together and spun against Burn, Pox, Junk, Shardless BUG, non-Hoogland Jund Loam and UWr Miracles this week:


Creatures (5)
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Spells (24)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce
3 Counterspell
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Repeal
1 Dismember

Others (7)
4 Standstill
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives

Lands (24)
3 Faerie Conclave
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroclasm
2 Flusterstorm
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Redirect
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Hibernation
2 Sulfur Elemental


I'm not comfortable running Stifle with my playstyle—thats the main change compared to some other lists in this thread. It opens up a few other options, however. Chief amongst them is Repeal, which has been fantastic. I also like Clique in the main.

All the threats in the deck are immune to Abrupt Decay (manlands, recurrable in principle) or have Flash (Snapcaster and Clique, either re-buying answers or pushing things you can't deal with, the beating under a Standstill).

I'm running Koth over Jace because I noticed that the games close very fast with a flurry of damage—and i wanted an extra 4 per turn which was immune to Abrupt Decay once I got to that stage. That did lead me to playing a second mountain, but i've since reversed that position.

Deathrite Shaman, Tarmogoyf, Loxodon Smiter (!!!—I know, but it might well become a Legacy card…) and Knight of the Reliquary are problems for the deck, but you can make a plan against them with Snare, Bolt, Snapcaster, and Repeal. The Dismember was also a concession to those fatties but I don't think I want to be paying all that life…

After reading Qweerios' excellent post here, I'm going to try this next.


Creatures (5)
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Spells (25)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce
3 Counterspell
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Repeal
1 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam

Others (7)
4 Standstill
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Engineered Explosives

Lands (24)
3 Faerie Conclave
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroclasm
2 Flusterstorm
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Redirect
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Zuran Orb


I have been suspicious for a little while that Life from the Loam had been outclassed as a card advantage engine—and as a dedicated strategy it might well be. I was also worried that Intuition as a tutor-for-game-turning-pile (especially where Ruins/EE/Thopter-Sword were all concerned) card was dead as well. I want to be wrong about that, so the narrow use in this deck to salvage your man lands/EE going late is superior to Crucible of Worlds from my perspective on the deck—in the BGx matchups. You probably only need to resolve Loam once or maybe twice after casting Intuition in order to seal the game.

I'm now anxious about Punishing Fires—our local Jund player doesnt run them, but our local Miracles player does—and none of the manlands survive (unless you're very careful with Factories); this is what lead me to the 2/2 Surgical Extraction/Relic of Progenitus split. I still have anxiety about Tarmogoyf. Some comedy sideboard options beyond the obvious Submerge:

Mind Harness
Hibernation
Curse of the Swine (followed up by Pyroclasm for a pig roast!)
Rapid Hybridization

I also wanted to spur some discussion about sideboarding—my minimum 4 grave-hate slots and 2 Flusterstorms are in place. I am trying 2 Redirect but will consider Divert and Misdirection during playtesting when Redirect is drawn. EE/Grudge/Orb/Pithing Needle are all designed to work alongside the Loam/Intuition/Ruins package. Other considerations: Sulfur Elemental as another Flash threat with applications against Maverick and Death and Taxes (not too many people play locally so I don't have much time to test) and, given the green splash, Destructive Revelry as an out to…potentially troublesome artifacts. Maybe EE and Pyroclasm are enough?

Anyways, this deck is scratching my control itch after a few months playing Omni-Tell and ANT. I think we can make it a great metagame choice right now—thoughts?

[Megadeus]

Please tell me Koth is awesome.

[warfordium]

He was pretty great as a 1-of. You'll basically only use the +1 to smash face. a 4/4 is surprisingly big in this format.

[Grizzly_Bear]

If you've transformed into RUG Landstill and are worried about Goyf, there's always the possibility to play your own goyfs...
This is untested from my side, just throwing it out there...

[warfordium]

pandaman, how'd your string of events go?

[evanmartyr]

He was pretty great as a 1-of. You'll basically only use the +1 to smash face. a 4/4 is surprisingly big in this format.

But is a 4/4 that dodges sorcery-speed removal really worth four mana? The ultimate is spiffy, but I'm thinking that he could just be Jace.

[warfordium]

It could be Jace, yes.

Koth helps speed up your clock (provided you're ahead), and his threatening ultimate pulls in attackers, making room for yours to crack back. The premise here is to close games quickly once ahead.

In that regard, Jace's "clock" is slower, but can control the top of your opponent's library if there are things you're weak to. If you're flat-out behind, brainstorming you into help is something Koth can't do, though in terms of raw card advantage, I've yet to really feel behind given how often standstills are going off.

I'm going to stick with it for the time being, and see how further testing plays out.

[pandaman]

pandaman, how'd your string of events go?

Mate, I missed the big Legacy event on the Friday before the GP because I couldn't get off work. But I played the Saturday afternoon Legacy event, going 3-2. Lost to an Elves player who ripped Natural Order -> Craterhoof off the top twice for the win in Games 2 and 3 when I had him dead on board both times. And lost to Lands, which is an awful matchup that I am prepared to lose to as only one person around here plays it. Won the rest against Goblins (2-1, game-lossed for being late for the round then won both 2 and 3), UR Nivmagus Delver (2-1) , and TES (2-0). The thing has a great combo matchup now with the tempo plan. StP maindeck is fantastic, it is staying there for good.

I also play UR Landstill in Vintage, and managed to acquire my first pieces of power (Mox Sapphire and Ancestral Recall) shortly before it came time to play the old format. I went 2-3in Vintage , losing to Dredge twice (0-2, where did you go 8 sideboard hate! I am well prepared for this matchup and think it's extremely positive post-board, but didn't seen any significant hate after lots of mulligans... :() and UB Tinkervault (1-2, got Vintaged hard in the third, he cast Windfall, Wheel of Fortune, and Memory Jar all in the same turm), but beat Reanimator and BUG Fish. I love Vintage :)

So I like the list as it is, I think.

Maindeck


1 Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Faerie Conclave

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell

4 Stifle
4 Standstill
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard

2 Vendillion Clique
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Flusterstorm
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Pyroclasm