Magic - the Cheatering

[MGB]

Well, there is actually - put it on a computer. Assuming you agree that it's the same game. But PTs on PCs don't sell physical playing cards.

Yep, a bug-free (is that possible) version of MTGO that enforces rules would be the solution.

But referencing the game in these posts I am referring to the paper game being played in tournaments right now. I guess the way to make this statement is to say that "There is no real way to make paper Magic a truly competitive game with a high degree of integrity in the game actions."

[Megadeus]

The only thing I wish that real life could emulate from MTGO is the timer. Like has been said, it isn't truly possible, but nothing is more infuriating to me than a player who is slow and we go to time because of it. I play decks that generally like longer attrition based games, but I only go to time when I have a very slow opponent.

[Lemnear]

The hits just keep on coming:

Rookie of the year Jared Boettcher running the cheats

In ALL the vids he shuffled till there is a land on the bottom and then puts the land on top of his opponents deck. Nice catch.

Supports my stance that 100% of professional players are cheaters (on opportunity). Being a constant Top 8/16 Performer in a varying field with varying opponents and victim of your own decks variance, is impossible.

[Dice_Box]

Got to agree with Lemnear on this one. Any good player who does well over a long period of time is a dirty cheater.

I wish to start a petition to get Oarsman and Bryant Cook banned from this forum for being such a horrible part of our community.

[bruizar]

In ALL the vids he shuffled till there is a land on the bottom and then puts the land on top of his opponents deck. Nice catch.

Supports my stance that 100% of professional players are cheaters (on opportunity). Being a constant Top 8/16 Performer in a varying field with varying opponents and victim of your own decks variance, is impossible.

So then how do you explain consistent tournament results of professional poker players? Do they not suffer from random variance?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Cook is pro?

[Lemnear]

Got to agree with Lemnear on this one. Any good player who does well over a long period of time is a dirty cheater.

I wish to start a petition to get Oarsman and Bryant Cook banned from this forum for being such a horrible part of our community.

We're not talking about "doing well" and being among the top 20% of most tournaments you enter in your favorite format. It's about being always in the T16 in any event those players enter no matter the format. That stuff leaves a fishy taste on my tongue

So then how do you explain consistent tournament results of professional poker players? Do they not suffer from random variance?

Professional Poker players do not end up in the money in like any tournament they enter. Just google up some known players of the 2000's and draw a relation between entered tournaments and money-finishes. You have to take into account that poker payouts are not only fueled by pay-ins but also by sponsoring, advertising, TVs broadcast earnings etc. and are very top-heavy compared to the number of players entering. You can make a living out of placing in the money once or twice a year despite entering 30+ events per year. MTG doesn't work that way

[bruizar]

We're not talking about "doing well" and being among the top 20% of most tournaments you enter in your favorite format. It's about being always in the T16 in any event those players enter no matter the format. That stuff leaves a fishy taste on my tongue

So call a judge each time they shuffle, and ask the judge to shuffle instead.

[Lemnear]

So call a judge each time they shuffle, and ask the judge to shuffle instead.

For me a much easier method works fine: shuffle myself & let my opponent cut the deck at least 6 times face down. Works fine for both players and doesn't damage the cards more than neccessary. Throughout BOM 8 I had only 2 people shuffling for 15 seconds after each fetch instead of multi-cutting and both blatantly looked at my cards as they had the card-face directed at themselves. Complained twice, called a judge once, gave up on the topic since then. I guess it's an unwritten law to just look what your opponent is playing before they draw their first hand. A significant issue depending on your deck of choice as you can't catch people off-guard nor can prove the cheat unless a judge is already watching

[Bed Decks Palyer]

For me a much easier method works fine: shuffle myself & let my opponent cut the deck at least 6 times face down. Works fine for both players and doesn't damage the cards more than neccessary. Throughout BOM 8 I had only 2 people shuffling for 15 seconds after each fetch instead of multi-cutting and both blatantly looked at my cards as they had the card-face directed at themselves. Complained twice, called a judge once, gave up on the topic since then. I guess it's an unwritten law to just look what your opponent is playing before they draw their first hand. A significant issue depending on your deck of choice as you can't catch people off-guard nor can prove the cheat unless a judge is already watching

Pretty much one of the reasons why I never cared about the whole "pro" scene and never tried anything in that environment.
Or any other environment...

[JDK]

We're not talking about "doing well" and being among the top 20% of most tournaments you enter in your favorite format. It's about being always in the T16 in any event those players enter no matter the format. That stuff leaves a fishy taste on my tongue

You do realize those guys play dozens of events a year, right?

[menace13]

For me a much easier method works fine: shuffle myself & let my opponent cut the deck at least 6 times face down. Works fine for both players and doesn't damage the cards more than neccessary. Throughout BOM 8 I had only 2 people shuffling for 15 seconds after each fetch instead of multi-cutting and both blatantly looked at my cards as they had the card-face directed at themselves. Complained twice, called a judge once, gave up on the topic since then. I guess it's an unwritten law to just look what your opponent is playing before they draw their first hand. A significant issue depending on your deck of choice as you can't catch people off-guard nor can prove the cheat unless a judge is already watching

Even more reason to change all event play to mirror top 8s with knowledge of each players deck lists

[Lord Seth]

We're not talking about "doing well" and being among the top 20% of most tournaments you enter in your favorite format. It's about being always in the T16 in any event those players enter no matter the format. That stuff leaves a fishy taste on my tongue

You say "no matter what the format" but what difference should the format make? A "pro player" devotes a lot of time to studying all of the formats they play in. The idea of someone doing best in their favorite format is really something that applies more to casual players who happen to have a favorite format. I suppose one can argue some formats are more variance-dependent than others, but that's a different thing.

More to the point, what players, in your words, do always finish in Top 16 no matter what? Certainly, there are some players who can accomplish such a thing multiple times, but those players also tend to be entering tons of events so by the law of averages, if they're decent enough, they will manage to do so. So you really only notice their victories and not their defeats. Maybe you see the same names on various Top 16's, but are you actually figuring out what percentage of events they played in that they did that well in, or what percentage of events they played in and did well enough to be notable that they did well in?

[cdr]

So many filthy casuals on The Source.

[Lemnear]

You do realize those guys play dozens of events a year, right?

Both Groups of players do. The difference is that one money finish in a ETP or smaller is enough to make a living for quite a while and you have nothing like this in MTG. In MtG you HAVE to finish in the money in most events you enter to make a living ergo the pressure on the players is much higher which forces these players to take every advantage possible. On top of that you get the usual Problem of the games structure (personal decks, card shuffle, etc) which has several weaknesses itself then it comes to fair play

[ShiftyKapree]

Got to agree with Lemnear on this one. Any good player who does well over a long period of time is a dirty cheater.

I wish to start a petition to get Oarsman and Bryant Cook banned from this forum for being such a horrible part of our community.

I really hope you are sarcastic about this, I've played against Bryant Cook numerous times when Jupiter games was "actual" shop that hosted kick ass tournaments, he does not cheat and far from it. I've seen him lose games, he is just a really good TES player. If you are good at that deck you can win so many games against fair decks which im quickly learning as i started to play the deck, it is skill intensive but that deck is a gamble

[Dice_Box]

Of course I am being sarcastic.

[Rune]

It's crazy how many camera feature matches Jared cheated in before getting busted. For every buffoon who cheats on camera, I wonder how many 'smart' cheaters there are. I don't really have much faith left in competitive paper Magic. It's just not a game meant to be played with large amounts of money on the line.

[Lemnear]

It's crazy how many camera feature matches Jared cheated in before getting busted. For every buffoon who cheats on camera, I wonder how many 'smart' cheaters there are. I don't really have much faith left in competitive paper Magic. It's just not a game meant to be played with large amounts of money on the line.

I agree. It's impossible to keep the game cheat-free under the current conditions paper magic is handled

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Not even FNM-like Legacy is free of this, ppl do anything possible for a played Badlans...