I won't bash a man for trying to find a great dealOriginally Posted by Richard Cheese
They must've had something serious on Alex to hand out another ban. There was probably an ongoing investigation. Magic can be prone to witch-huntery (ask Willy Edel), so the investigations committee does not hand out lengthy cheating suspensions without rock solid evidence.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
It seems likely Alex was under investigation since the PT, see here (besides the Kibler bashing that adds nothing to the conversation).
The warnings he got at the SCG were no doubt just a little icing on the cake.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
That's not even the ones that pissed people off at the PT. He also tried to accuse Cheon of cheating by missing triggers, and lobbied for a game loss.
~ Team Unicorn Motto
I am definitely not surprised at all by there being more. In fact, I was sure there would be.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
If someone cheats, they should be banned for life. Even if they never cheat again, they're still damaging to the game just be being around. And it's not as if the game has so few players that each one needs to be hung on to.
The hits just keep on coming:
Rookie of the year Jared Boettcher running the cheats
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Third time isn't the charm regarding cheating. Since he continues to be a serial cheater, he should be banned for life.
He's toxic for the game and will cheat again once he comes back. It didn't work the last time since he didn't show the slightest bit of remorse, and it won't work this time.
There have been people that have cheated, repented, and come back and been positive for the game. Multiple members of the HoF have cheated.
It's good to differentiate between opportunistic cheaters - someone who took advantage of a situation presented, perhaps in a moment of weakness - and habitual cheaters, someone who actively creates opportunities to cheat. I fully expect Bertoncini may get the first lifetime ban for cheating (so far, only assault has merited lifetime) if he comes back after this suspension. I don't think the game has seen such a gem of a habitual cheater since Mike Long.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
Uh, no Trevor, no one has accused you of being as bad as a rapist or murderer. If your crimes were as serious as being a rapist or murderer, you'd be receiving a punishment substantially more harsh than a 4-year suspension from a card game.
By the way, I find it confusing that Alex, who has been suspended before, gets 3 years, whereas Trevor (who hasn't been suspended before) gets 4 years. I think both of them deserve strong punishments, but it seems a bit odd that the guy with the "criminal record" gets the more lenient punishment.
Like who? If you're going to say people have cheated and repented and been positive, who are these people?
I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm genuinely curious.
He is the new Mike Long.
As for lifetime bans. They already have those, unless they think people will live to 2145 or the year 9999. I very much doubt this game will last until 2045.
Now that I think about it; people have been complaining about Alex cheating since he came off suspension. At multiple SCG events, against multiple different opponents. It is pretty disheartening that nothing was done until he acted the same way at a Pro Tour. Then the Banhammer can't come down fast or hard enough.
~ Team Unicorn Motto
Nothing can be done until he gets caught. I guess you can perhaps blame SCG for not putting competent enough people on watching him. It unfortunately takes an experienced and especially competent judge to catch a cheater in the act. They were allegedly also avoiding putting him on camera, which if true meant no camera evidence. It's not surprising if the PT is where he got caught, considering the judge level : player ratio.
Like I said, so far lifetime bans have been reserved exclusively for assault or threats thereof.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
Are the lifetime bans you're referring to dated 2150 or 9999?
Both, I would assume - probably inconsistency over the years. I haven't looked at individual people though and they haven't listed ban reason for like 6 years.
Edit: Oh, and felony theft. The GP theft ring is on there under 9999.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
This post is spot on. There is this tension in Magic between the Casual and the Competitive. And as it is fundamentally designed, Magic falls more in the former category than the latter. It is too complex a game and asks too much of each player for the game to maintain competitive integrity. There are simply too many things that can go wrong. Chess is a great competitive game because the play clock is easy to implement and the pieces are very clearly observable during the course of the game. It's hard to get away with prestidigitation in a game of Chess. In Magic, however, there are ample opportunities for Sleight of Hand. Everything in the game leads to this element of potential cheating. The game requires players to shuffle *constantly*. The game requires players to draw varying numbers of cards at multiple points in the game. The game requires players to keep track of tokens and triggers and static effects so much so that it is overwhelming.
There is no real way to make Magic a truly "competitive" game with a high degree of integrity in the game actions. Even at the highest level Magic is basically being played on an honor system.
Well, there is actually - put it on a computer. Assuming you agree that it's the same game. But PTs on PCs don't sell physical playing cards.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
As useful as I find MTGO, there are a lot of differences that make it not exactly the same game :/
And the fact that MTGO is still so terrible a client despite this fact really astounds me. I'm glad the Hearthstone revolution has made Hasbro finally understand the potential they have, but really MTGO is the solution to making magic both a good viewing experience (watching the fuzzy cameras at SCG playing "guess the glare card" is an absolutely terrible experience, that even seasoned veterans have a hard time following) and a fair game (perfect randomization, no rules missed if coded correctly, cards drawn correctly, and most of all A TIMER FOR EACH PLAYER NOT FOR BOTH).
I can't stress enough how amazing each player getting their own timer is, and it just isn't possible in paper games. The priority changes ~20 times per turn and having to hit a button for that would be stupid and drain the fun. Just that change alone is one of the best things that can possibly happen to the game for players, but the other thing about making tournament magic popular is letting the spectators see what cards each player has and all of the other details.
If MTGO actually gets its shit together finally we could have amazing games for any tournament.
Heh, that makes sense now. I was confused thinking that life was different than 130 years. :P
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