I can never get enough. Even after multi-day events like BoM Annecy 2013, where I played 40(!) rounds of Legacy over 4 days, the very first thing I wanna do when I come home is fire up MODO and play. If possible even play while on my way home.Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I can definitely see that other people might get tired of it and I've certainly grown tired of other things in the past. But for Magic, no I have never felt that.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
And how is this relevant to Magic as a job? What you described is a hobby. If you aren't being forced and expected to win, everything becomes fun. Even the stock market becomes fun at that point I'd imagine. But the fact that you have to play and meet certain expectations can grind you down and kill you.
The tournament I started is over. You should join the next one.
The mark of a truly great game is that you never get tired of playing it no matter how long or how often you have just played it.
Magic is one of the few rare games I've experienced in my life with this quality.
That's true, but my skill level is no where near high enough that I could count any kinds of results but bad. If my skill level was high enough though, I don't feel it would be that bad. Of course there would he pressure, but there are many jobs where you are going to be under pressure to preform. Why would it being Magic make it so bad? I'd rather that then any other high pressure job.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I posted what you called an "ironic comment" because I think this whole "yeah it makes sense, they're probably just cheaters" view is pretty self-satisfied and in the end rather pointless. It reminds me of my Counter-Strike days where I, once I hit a skill plateau, thought that everyone better than me was probably cheating. Looking back at it now, I was so stupid and part of what was holding me back from actually getting into the highest (paid) tier of players was hugely part due to exactly that kind of attitude.
From my own experience, top players are really good. I mean, I can probably say that I've done really well over the last 1-2 years. Yet, I still make mistakes, sometimes even really stupid ones. The top notch people that I met and played with just don't. They might make strategical mistakes when they're not familiar with the environment, but you will hardly ever see them make tactical mistakes like missing onboard stuff or completly blinding on an interaction. It is their tactical awarness + the endless hours of testing people put in before big tournaments that helps them out. Before PT Born of the Gods for example, Channel Fireball actually flew in to Prague to test with the entire team. There are other teams that do the same and we regularly see members of those teams do well. How many people will go to a PT just having tested on Magic Online? Or maybe even just Cockatrice? It's easily the majority. I'm aware of several and they all came back and were like "woah man, those guys were so much ahead of me"; I'm friends with a lot of them. Of course you might argue that these big-team-names only do well because whenever they meet for "testing" they're actually just holding a "Sleight of Hand Convention" where they talk about their latest card tricks; but at that point you're already pretty deep into tin-foil conspiracy land.
Also, nobody talks about how "pros" (for the lack of a better term) will also sometimes just 3-3 Drop a GP. It happens. Maybe they even make mistakes. But I really feel it's something people just like to ignore.
This is not the Tour de France, guys.
PS: I'm talking about actual testing. It's easily the most misunderstood concepts in all of Magic. 99% of times when people will tell you they are "testing", they are actually just playing.
Last edited by Julian23; 10-27-2014 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Lots of spelling mistakes :-O
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
I guess I am just wired differently. See I can play a game for ages, dig into it and work out all its details, but I feel I am never truly at home until I decompile the code and see what makes it tick. I am in my element digging though the code, finding errors and just having fun.
I think that's why I think I would like Judging more and if I lived in the States I would be higher than Lvl 1. I can play a game, any game and burn out. But you give me the code, what makes it tick and I can never look away. I think honestly think I am an addict to this game (put my Legacy collection into the computer the other day and came out in 5 figures) but I could be happy playing one large event every two years and judging all the others.
Different strokes.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
About Jared Boettcher...
Was it confirmed that he was cheating? did he get a ban like bertoncheatty?
Not yet. You can guarantee an investigation is open.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
That is laughable and absolutely illogical.
The only way to save your thesis is saying that "If you can make a T8 cheating, you could've done it the honest way." Nothing about skill, sure if you did not cheat and you shuffled a land to the top of your opponents library on every shuffle by accident then you could have T8 without cheating maybe.
Don't downplay cheating, it has no place in any game between humans. Cheating should be condemned as it destroys the chances of the fair players who no matter how good or skilled can drop out of the tournament quickly by mulliganing 3 times each game due to bad luck. Something that might not happen to a clever cheater.
Anyone remember the Sam Black cheat? Was it top 8 GP or even PT?
So many kitchen table players on the Source, sheesh. If you haven't played at a high level, don't pretend you know anything about the game.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
How should I interpret that post? "if you are not cheating to win and care for the integrity of the game, you are just a kitchen table/casual player."?
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Well, I agree with this part.
I've been teaching the two older of my kids to play, really basic stuff (Portal cards, essentially) and sometimes one tries to cheat. Other times they get angry or upset about what happens in the game. I always tell them, "if you aren't going to play the game correctly, do not play at all." I stand by that, if you aren't going to follow the rules and play the game as it is supposed to be played, it obviously is not something for you. I only once did I have to actually take the cards away to prove my point and I think the lesson sunk in. At least, it seems to for the time being.
I guess my point is, some people never learn that. I know some parents toe the line and say "winning isn't everything" but in practice are actually doing shit like fighting opposing players family members, verbally or physically abusing referees, or berating coaches at their children's sporting events. Examples aren't hard to find. Teaching kids proper sportsmanship is pretty important, because it honestly just leads you to being a better person. Teach you kids the right way, not just with words but through your actions.
/rant
Last edited by H; 10-27-2014 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Clarity and stuff...
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
+1 This
cdr isn't condoning cheating. He's putting things into perspective.
The difference between a cheater who goes 7-0-2 and a non-cheater who goes 7-0-2 is that the cheater will go 7-0-2 more frequently with less work (all other things equal). The cheater would still probably go 7-0-2 from time to time without cheating if they put in the work.
This point was met with
Neither of which is true.
cdr's post about the kitchen table was a dismissive response to Quizzle's dismissive response.
I see it more as "if you think all these guys are scrubs that ONLY get wins off of cheating, you're wrong."
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
This is definitely worth remembering, some of the best cheaters are people who are already actually good at the game. My experience with this is from my younger days playing YuGiOh. YuGiOh has a layered restriction list for power-cards, lots of generic "good stuff" and for the longest time no interaction with the player taking the very first turn (think Vintage with no FoW), there was a lot of potential for very strong or very weak hands, and no resource system to prevent you from setting up a great opener or falling victim to one. As such, there was flagrant cheating, typically involving various methods of stacking your deck or your opponent's, just because once you remove the variance of opening by either keeping the opponents opener more manageable or making your own consistently good, its a lot more feasible to leverage your edge in skill to get the win. People always complain about blue being dominate because you can run Brainstorm/Ponder, but actual literal sleight of hand is a much greater boost to consistency in its own right.
Exactly. Bertoncini is actually a pretty good player in his own right, and so is Boettcher. I'm positive that not all of Bertoncini's wins were from running the cheats.
Pizza, beer, and Canadian Thresh.
If you want to look at cheats, you really have to go much further back, to players such as Mike Long - Long was an incredible player of the game...who also tricked his opponents. A lot. Some of this makes for epic stories, such as the Jedi Mind Bloom, but a lot of it reduces the goodwill that players have towards the game.
Care to share that epic story? Or link to someone who has?
He only had one copy of his kill con in his deck, the oppent had a chance to take it but was tricked to believing that he had more than one copy of the card in question.Care to share that epic story? Or link to someone who has?
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
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