So, there's attacking with a creature with summoning sickness, and then there's two Explores.
The OP didn't post a link, but they did say which tournament it was so there's ample opportunity to dig deeper. Maybe there are some video matches worth analyzing, I have no idea. But really, it seems like there are habits which are more conducive to keeping the game state correct, and some which are more prone to producing an incorrect game state. Ham-fisting your Brainstorm draws is one of them. I cannot fucking stand that when it's a non-casual game; call me a hater or whatever but there's always some lug with monster hands that can palm Pringles can like I palm a quarter, and he draws all three cards in one swift motion and pulls it into his hand real fast. It's like watching David Copperfield doing some sleight of hand after having a bad reaction to shellfish; I have no literal idea what the fuck just happened, there's just extra cards in dude's hand.
When there's something tangible on the line, people should try to straighten up and fly right, I think. You fan those cards on the table before you draw them, one card at a time so my four-eyed ass can see it happen. Of course I expect that; why wouldn't you want your opponent to demonstrate drawing cards? I'm in the "fuck you, kill me" camp too, I don't care about your soft Enchantress lock; end the bloody game. Demonstrate your flipping game actions! Gahhh!
If I pay $40 and am playing a Competitive REL event and am not in the X-3 bracket waiting to go drink I call a judge on every GRV. The judge staff has a record of GRVs. If everyone did this you'd know who the cheaters were pretty quickly, and the shitty players would learn to correct their play. I called a judge on myself for missing my own Mana Crypt i.e. Lightning Bolt Machine on Sunday. It's a detrimental trigger and I got a GRV. The end.
Saturday, at the TCG 50K, I didn't hand out a single penalty. First time in my life that has ever happened. If we handed out GLs for every infraction, upgrade path would have us DQing dozens of people at every tournament. Mistakes happen. We all miss shit. I've missed shit on matches I was watching and I have nothing better to do than look for infractions.
Im not talking about Mass-DQing people at your FNM. Im talking about high level tournaments, where you can win a few thousand dollars.
Mistakes happen of course, but than you have to live with the consequences. And there will always be the guys who want to win, no matter how. The reward when cheating is much higher than the risk. (illegal actions stay unnoticed, people not calling judges, collecting warnings for different fractions)
Id rather lose a game, because I made a mistake, than to suspect that cheating is required or helps to win tournaments.
Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?
This is an important thing to note. Penalties become more severe the more times a player breaks a rule. If you're not calling a judge every time someone commits a GRV, you're hurting the next person they GRV against.
A really common one seems to be attacking with creatures that can't. Summoning Sick, Ensaring Bridge, Moat, etc
Slow play can be really hard to define... I spent well over an hour on game 1, match 1 of quarterfinals in a legacy side event at a GP. The other half of the bracket was finished through up to the finals before we'd finished our first game... Three judges rotating in/out of watching the game and no slow play rulings; who plays astral slide anyway?
Fixed that for you.
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I guess I don't understand why the OP is suggesting that the offender gets an auto-game loss for any infraction. That doesn't even make any sense. If the referee of a football game penalized the Atlanta Falcons for having 12 men on the field, then says "due to the defense's infraction, the Carolina Panthers WIN THE GAME", what would you think?
In GP Ghent's side-event I played against a Miracle player who took minutes to rearrange his lands (clearly slow-play, but I didn't care much at that time and just told him to speed up after doing it several times), then, as soon as he draws an out to my Vortex he calls me out for being too slow when I thought about which cards to keep after a Brainstorm (or Ponder). Needless to say, the match ended in my only draw the whole weekend...and made me a Miracle hater.
To be disqualified for Cheating requires an intent to gain advantage from it either by intentionally committing the error, or noticing the error and not pointing it out to a judge.The vast majority of errors are unintentional. Players, especially when they're distracted with thinking the next turn ahead or because they're about to win, make all kinds of minor mistakes. I guarantee no one in this thread has played a full tournament without unintentionally violating the game rules in some way.
To OP's point, the greatest tool in a judge's arsenal for catching cheaters are wary players who bring issues to our attention. If your opponent did something shady and I never found about it, I never have the opportunity to ask them some pointed questions.
Obviously not in every case, and I don't mean when evaluating difficult boardstates/plays.
I mean the ones that use 10-20 seconds on each top activarion, 10 seconds each ponder etc. :)
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Lol, not your fault. ^^
Problem is, most people aren't the "experienced" ones. That's not the only issue, though. I know several people who play Miracles at a fast pace, but sometimes the deck just takes eons to find a wincon.
It's like Miracles produces a "Brainstorm" overload for some people (Brainstorm, Top and Jace) and they add up so much time due to a lack of experience or being able to evaluate boardstates etc.
I guess I am biased, but in Modern they banned Top partially due to it's slow-play nature and Second Sunrise (*sadface*) also got axed for consuming too much time in inexperience hands.
Sometimes it's not even a lack of experience, some people just play extremely slow.
So playing under a camera and being nervous counts for nothing?
People are willfully cheating ON CAMERA all the time? and it's wide spread and prevalent?
Get out of here OP you are drunk.
Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?
I think you missed the point of what i said. You were essentially accusing literally everyone at a high level and lower levels too, to be wilfully cheating on camera, which is super ludicrous. The proof you provided is the one person who has done this and got caught for doing it, and you think people are purposefully emulating his behaviour?
I remember playing back in the day where you couldn't undo untaps etc, and it was when cheating was most rampant and thrived, and the game wasn't about skill but about who could skate the rules the most or make your opponent nervous or miss something. Magic is in a way better way more fun and fair place now than it was back then, and history backs this up in every way.
You act as if there aren't penalties and the judges arent' doing their job, you realize LSV got a game loss in a game he had already won last year on the pro tour for drawing and extra card right? He even called the judges himself, it's not like these rules arent' in place, you just might not be happy with how they are being applied and handled, i get that but think you are way off base.
How do you know the people on camera weren't given warnings? but it was done verbally without slowing down the action on camera? Maybe the judges realize that playing with a big crowd or on camera makes people super nervous and there is almost no gain to actually cheating in those circumstances and act accordingly?
So Bertoncini counts as "all the time"?
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