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Thread: Magic - the Cheatering

  1. #81

    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAardvark View Post
    And, if their investigation finds sufficient evidence of cheating, they will donate the money from his prizes to charity (as they did with Bertoncini). Say what you will about SCG, but that is a terrific thing to do.
    For example, Bertoncheaty's DQ'd prize money went to Child's Play, and someone over at Reddit has requested that this prize money goes to a charity in Orlando called Game Changer. And yes, sometimes, SCG are pretty awesome.

  2. #82
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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    cheater's never prosper.. smh
    Live and Let Live

  3. #83
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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    He is frighteningly good. He actually uses his other hand as a distraction in that gif Bertrand Hustle posted. I would be such an easy mark for this guy, as I never notice that kind of thing.

    *shiver*
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  4. #84
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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Honestly, I'm a very peaceful person. But whenever someone shuffles my deck and does not put his hands in one direction and turn the header in the other, I really want to scratch their face off.

    If you can't shuffle my deck without looking at it, do not shuffle it. If we were to actually enforce this all the time, i would have to call a judge in 60% of my games. People are really bad at blind-shuffling a deck and most of them even thinks that's ok. I've spent like 3 years teaching someone to shuffle a deck properly without looking at it because he just wasn't physically able to. The first time I instructed him to shuffle with his eyes closed, he accidentally threw the deck over the table.

    Sorry, but i really feel that right now the community (and that includes me) is to soft on people using the rules more as "guidelines".
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  5. #85

    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Is there an argument to be made for not enforcing additional shuffling by the opponent?

    You are supposed to present a randomized deck to the opponent, therefore additional shuffling is redundant. (If opponent does not believe you are presenting a randomized deck, he should call a judge).
    And, if you can cheat while shuffling your own deck, you can also cheat while shuffling your opponent's, as evidenced by the case at hand.

  6. #86
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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Quote Originally Posted by M+1 View Post
    Is there an argument to be made for not enforcing additional shuffling by the opponent?

    You are supposed to present a randomized deck to the opponent, therefore additional shuffling is redundant. (If opponent does not believe you are presenting a randomized deck, he should call a judge).
    And, if you can cheat while shuffling your own deck, you can also cheat while shuffling your opponent's, as evidenced by the case at hand.
    We need shuffle-machines like in poker (maybe not as rough as poker cards are shuffled in there) for tournaments like this. Till then I skip all playtesting and work on my shuffle skills/watch tutorials to be less distracted by shuffling and have a better shot at spotting cheating
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
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  7. #87

    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    have to admit some skills to this guy, the invitational vid is very telling, so calm, makes my wonder how many players pull magical tricks like this off camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    If we were to actually enforce this all the time, i would have to call a judge in 60% of my games.

    Sorry, but i really feel that right now the community (and that includes me) is to soft on people using the rules more as "guidelines".
    Then why don't you? From your posts I get you're very oriented on rules enforcement, I'm usualy more laid back but no way anyone gets to shuffle this way, I have better experience on bigger tournaments, Opps are usualy very careful and vigilant when something is at stake... but agreed people are bad at shuffling 90% of all sleeves bent corners are due to my opps that can't just shuffle right

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    We need shuffle-machines like in poker (maybe not as rough as poker cards are shuffled in there) for tournaments like this. Till then I skip all playtesting and work on my shuffle skills/watch tutorials to be less distracted by shuffling and have a better shot at spotting cheating
    It's weird there isn't even something like "moneycounter machine" for (Deck)listing/(deck)checking decks and inventory

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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark View Post
    It's weird there isn't even something like "moneycounter machine" for (Deck)listing/(deck)checking decks and inventory
    I totally agree. It's about time the game steps up to poker. Btw Martin, habe you seen some of the new opened MTG stores over in Japan? This is really professional craze
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  9. #89

    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I totally agree. It's about time the game steps up to poker. Btw Martin, habe you seen some of the new opened MTG stores over in Japan? This is really professional craze
    It definitely should... Maybe there is something, I can't imagine stock taking milions of cards in hand... Haven't been to Japan yet, in which way?

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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark View Post
    It definitely should... Maybe there is something, I can't imagine stock taking milions of cards in hand... Haven't been to Japan yet, in which way?
    Kai sent me the link months ago. I'll asked him to kindly dig up the link to the pictures. Even blew my architect-mind
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  11. #91
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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    If you can't shuffle my deck without looking at it, do not shuffle it. If we were to actually enforce this all the time, i would have to call a judge in 60% of my games.
    That's easily said, but there is usually not much a judge can do against it but to stay at the table and keep an eye on both players. I was in exactly that situation previously, playing for 1k in my last round of the PT. Obviously my opponent looked blatantly at my deck while shuffling and I called a judge. The judge was asking us for what happened and also asked the players sitting next to us. Of course, no one noticed anything. All that happened from there on was the judge watching our match, but there wasn't any penalty for my opponent, since he obviously denied of having looked at my deck and there were no witnesses. And, you know, I can't really claim that he did cheat without any kind of proof, as I would also risk to get a loss for unsporting conduct... sometimes this game is amazing. Maybe they should film all matches, at least at high stake tournaments.
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  12. #92
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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Quote Originally Posted by dunk View Post
    That's easily said, but there is usually not much a judge can do against it but to stay at the table and keep an eye on both players. I was in exactly that situation previously, playing for 1k in my last round of the PT. Obviously my opponent looked blatantly at my deck while shuffling and I called a judge. The judge was asking us for what happened and also asked the players sitting next to us. Of course, no one noticed anything. All that happened from there on was the judge watching our match, but there wasn't any penalty for my opponent, since he obviously denied of having looked at my deck and there were no witnesses. And, you know, I can't really claim that he did cheat without any kind of proof, as I would also risk to get a loss for unsporting conduct... sometimes this game is amazing. Maybe they should film all matches, at least at high stake tournaments.
    This year, literally everyone of my friends playing in the PT told me that it's almost kind of an "unwritten law" that people will look at your deck while shuffling. That's so crazy. It's like "Yeah, it's shitty but there's nothing you can really do about it."
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  13. #93
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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Time for everyone to start strapping dashcams onto their heads.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

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  14. #94
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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Dunno about you, but I watch my opponents shuffling (my deck) exactly for that reason. If I catch them glancing or being suspicious I tell them to not peek. If they do it again, I tell a judge. Simple as that.

    also: OP's nick is relevant to the latest discussion :D

  15. #95
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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    At a large tournament, I generally watch my opponent as I am shuffling. I don't see how people can't shuffle without liking at their deck. It's not that hard
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  16. #96

    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Quote Originally Posted by big_ticket View Post
    cheater's never prosper.. smh
    Cheaters always prosper, it is only the ones that get caught that don't.

  17. #97

    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    I stare into their blackened souls. I gave a glacial miracle player the death stare as he shuffled my Enchantress at last SCG while I gently shuffled his pile face down in front of me. There really is no reason to turn the deck on it's side. He said, 'What?'. I said, 'You're looking at my cards'. He said, 'I'm not, I'm just clumsy'. Turned out it didn't matter because he didn't even know what Wild growth did but ...

  18. #98

    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    I dont think this has been posted yet: Apparently Humphries was called out in the invitational for doing the same thing. I have linked the YouTube video below. His opponent catches it and has the Judge shuffle his deck in G2 and G3.

    Video Link

  19. #99

    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Honestly, I'm a very peaceful person. But whenever someone shuffles my deck and does not put his hands in one direction and turn the header in the other, I really want to scratch their face off.

    If you can't shuffle my deck without looking at it, do not shuffle it. If we were to actually enforce this all the time, i would have to call a judge in 60% of my games. People are really bad at blind-shuffling a deck and most of them even thinks that's ok. I've spent like 3 years teaching someone to shuffle a deck properly without looking at it because he just wasn't physically able to. The first time I instructed him to shuffle with his eyes closed, he accidentally threw the deck over the table.

    Sorry, but i really feel that right now the community (and that includes me) is to soft on people using the rules more as "guidelines".
    Why not just ask them to shuffle the deck face down if they have trouble shuffling while looking away? If it's face down, they can be looking straight at it and there's no opportunity for them to see the cards.

  20. #100
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    Re: Magic - the Cheatering

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    Why not just ask them to shuffle the deck face down if they have trouble shuffling while looking away? If it's face down, they can be looking straight at it and there's no opportunity for them to see the cards.
    In the situation he's provided, the guy has already looked at the deck. The problem is not just the guy being able to manipulate the deck but also the guy seeing what you're playing. For Julian (elves), seeing any one of ~50 of his cards will tell you a ton about the deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You don't get to play the most powerful cards in the format and then bitch when someone finally says no. You also don't get to bitch that it's not fun when someone finally tells you no instead of voyeuristicly watching you masturbate with Cantrips.

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