[DECK] Loam Control

[Mr. Safety]

If I'm reading your correctly, you're saying play Smallpox in the main and swap to Bob out of the board? I think that may be wise.

[cherub_daemon]

If I'm reading your correctly, you're saying play Smallpox in the main and swap to Bob out of the board? I think that may be wise.

That was what I was saying, based only on the fact that you might be able to render MD Path to Exile and friends dead in game one, and then (maybe) run Bob against a list without them in game two.

[Mr. Safety]

Already testing this, so far it looks promising.

[Mr. Safety]

Is Waste Not worth testing in this deck? It seems to work really well on paper. I haven't proxy-tested it yet but it is definately in the works.

[cherub_daemon]

Is Waste Not worth testing in this deck? It seems to work really well on paper. I haven't proxy-tested it yet but it is definately in the works.

My prediction, which I have absolutely no data to support, is that Waste Not will end up being useless in every deck not built to completely abuse it. My best guess for THAT deck is that it will use things like Reforge the Soul, Magus of the Jar, Wheel of Fate and Burning Inquiry and be built by someone much smarter than me. /BOLDPREDICTION

Even if I'm wrong (likely), your discard is all opponent's choice, so you're going to end up with the least optimal resource a lot. All that said, what are you thinking of pulling out for it?

[Mr. Safety]

I think Smallpox would be the only place I could cut for space. My current list is a hybrid of the two lists in the primer (Smallpox in the main, Bob in the board.)

My sneaking suspicion is that Waste Not is a card that has 'the danger of cool things.' It allows the Raven's Crime engine to get more value but that engine is already good at what it does: attacking an opponent's hand. I would have to agree that cards like Burning Inquiry and Blightning would fit a deck built around Waste Not much better. Reforge the Soul seems bonkers really.

[FTW]

My prediction, which I have absolutely no data to support, is that Waste Not will end up being useless in every deck not built to completely abuse it. My best guess for THAT deck is that it will use things like Reforge the Soul, Magus of the Jar, Wheel of Fate and Burning Inquiry and be built by someone much smarter than me. /BOLDPREDICTION

That deck has a major hardon for Notion Thief

[raphinhu]

Have you thought of playing Young Pyromancer?
You will be able to get a token out of each retrace you cast....

[Mr. Safety]

It's an idea for sure, but I'd rather play maindeck Pyroclasm. It's just a preferance, I've seen other lists that use YP. It's great with Smallpox because you can sack the token it creates with the trigger.

[danielhicks]

I really like the idea of this deck, it feels like every card, turn, and move you do is crucial when playing. However, Loam Control is kind of a lame name. How about something like Super Compost.

Also, here is a more balls to the walls version of this deck that I have been trying:

Spells(30)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Flame Jab
4 Raven's Crime
4 Mulch
4 Life from the Loam
4 Summer Bloom *
4 Smallpox
2 Worm Harvest

Lands (30)
4 Blood Crypt
4 Stomping Ground
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Fire-Lit Thicket *
4 Graven Cairns
4 Twilight Mire
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Forest

*The summer bloom and mulch are nice when playing 30 lands and you can just start churning through your deck with faithless looting for loam.

*The Shadowmoore lands are really helpful when you want to cast 3 ravens crimes on one turn and switch to 3 flame jabs the next.

[YamiJoey]

I'd rather just play Explore than Summer Bloom. Less Land Drops, but better when you're not already winning.

[Mr. Safety]

You want balls to the wall? Spellweaver Helix.

I tried mulch, wasn't a fan. Summer Bloom doesn't do anything powerful here other than set up 5 lands for harvest. I don't think that is good enough. Also, not playing manlands is 100% wrong.

[danielhicks]

kk no summer bloom :(

Man lands sounds awesome, but what lands to cut? and if im not playing summer bloom, then maybe i shouldnt be playing 30 lands.

[Mr. Safety]

If you want to play 30 lands, then splash blue for Treasure Hunt. Honestly, that lends itself to Seismic Swans as a more powerful engine, but it could be good. This thread is mostly to discuss Loam-based control (the usual suspects of Ravens' Crime, Flame Jab, Liliana, graveyard-based card advantage, etc.)

[cherub_daemon]

So, I was thinking about a different deck altogether, when it occurred to me that Noxious Revival might be able to be used like a tutor in this deck. In particular, I'm wondering if you can use it to run fewer copies of the cards that you can't automatically recur, like Seismic Assault. Just for purposes of having a concrete suggestion, I'm wondering whether

+3 Noxious Revival
-1 Seismic Assault
-1 Smallpox
-1 Lightning Bolt

makes this deck more consistent.

[Mr. Safety]

How is Noxious Revival even remotely close to the power level of Infernal Tutor, a card that is so much stronger and yet I wouldn't play in this deck? Infernal is legal in modern and can allow you to double up on cards like Loam for protection or become a straight-up tutor once Liliana and Smallpox do their thing. The deck is already packing a metric ton of consistency; it plays the same in almost every game. I see Noxious Revival as redundancy that isn't neccessary. Faithless Looting is really good in this deck, especially once Loam gets available. You are essentially drawing two extra cards for one red mana. The flashback means it's always live, even when you discard it. I would play four Lootings before I played one Revival, and right now I can only (comfortably) squeeze in three.

Just my $0.02, but I tried out Revival and it wasn't that great. Granted it was only a singleton, but I still don't like it much. Hitting three lands isn't hard, even with Smallpox, so why wouldn't a card like Eternal Witness be a better plan? Honestly, from my point of view, I'd rather just stick to plan A: attack their hand, attack their board, use Loam to create inevitability and 'combo out' with Seismic Assault/Flame Jab.

However, I am not so bullheaded as to shoot down a potential idea. Have you tried this yet? I think the real selling point is that it's an instant that can put Loam on top of your library to save from Graveyard hate (ooze, deathrite, etc.)

[cherub_daemon]

However, I am not so bullheaded as to shoot down a potential idea. Have you tried this yet? I think the real selling point is that it's an instant that can put Loam on top of your library to save from Graveyard hate (ooze, deathrite, etc.)

I have not tried it. As I said, it was an idea that occurred to me when I was thinking about a different deck, and I was just spitballing here. You make good points, and the fact that it's instant protection for Loam is unlikely to be enough to make it worth it.

[fogxanic]

Im planning to change from Jund to aggroloam list something like this one http://mtgpulse.com/event/15181#213684. What do you think about playing Ray of Revelations on sb and add like one godless shrine? Destroys rip and leyline. Also 1 of young pyromancer in countryside crushers slot.

[Mr. Safety]

Splashing white with loam? Ahem, Knight of the Reliquary.

Also, how is ray better than abrupt decay?

Edit: sorry, missed the leyline part. Still, we have plenty of options in jund colors. Ray works if dredged, but I don't think its worth the mana fragility without knights. Deathrite could pull it off, but that is moot. Nature's claim seems good, or simply getting some number of pulse into the deck. I play 2 in the main.

[fogxanic]

Splashing white with loam? Ahem, Knight of the Reliquary.

Also, how is ray better than abrupt decay?

Edit: sorry, missed the leyline part. Still, we have plenty of options in jund colors. Ray works if dredged, but I don't think its worth the mana fragility without knights. Deathrite could pull it off, but that is moot. Nature's claim seems good, or simply getting some number of pulse into the deck. I play 2 in the main.

Ok, maybe im not splashing white. I would play the reanimator version with unburial rites with white color.

I also bought worm harvest and smallpoxes for creatureless version. I like that list, path and terminate does nothing against it.

Did some playtesting on friday with infect. Seems ok matchup but have to have something like flame jab or inquisition for win. Inkmoth nexus is their best creature against us.