[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Jonathan Alexander]

Also, just to be a stickler, sudden shock could be countered by counterbalance, the only target for it'd probably be Snapcaster beats though...

Actually, that was the reason I said it won't be countered rather than can't be countered.

I disagree, IT->EtW is great T1/T2 (note that Kai does not play Ad Nauseam MD) against most decks and in fact I kill most Miracles players with EtW postboard especially, on the other hand I haven't explored something like 3x EtW as a SB plan vs. Miracles (to narrow imo)

This opens you up to all kinds of countermagic though. Empty is good for the same reason Tendrils are: people can't interact with storm triggers. So yeah, I'll have to agree with Togores here, Empty is at its best when you have multiples and you can cast them from your hand early often. I have actually done this ages ago, but I don't feel the metagame is anywhere near a point where this is good right now. Although, to be fair, it might be good vs. BUG Delver. Pretty sure it isn't worth the 3-4 slots though.

[Tav]

been a while since i've posted, but i have only just started playing regularly again after a break post GP NJ.

currently prepping for the tales event in PA this coming weekend, and i've been messing around with my sb

what i have sleeved up for this weekend is (stock mb w/ 7 discard, 1 preordain, 1 sdt, and 1 grim tutor)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Massacre
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tendrils of Agony

i've been working with another friend to try and lay out a plan for sideboarding for every relevant deck that we might run into (and yes, obviously sb guides aren't meant to be followed explicitly so things might change, but its a good way to bring up some basic discussions)

one for example is decay vs chain against wasteland decks. obviously chain is much easier to cast off a basic island, but against decks like uwr that run red blasts or dnt that can just vial a bounced hate bear back into play, is the decay worth turning on their wastes? rug delver? what about decks like bug? no red blast and a chain on a null rod or drs might be enough if needed, but unless we are ready to go off chain is useless against a card like lili.

another topic that people seem to be divided on is siding out ad nauseam in certain matchups. miracles is a good example. personally i like keeping it in, as it provides a late game draw spell and can sometimes just act as that t1 crutch when they keep an opener without force. even while bringing in the second tendrils i feel like the upsides of leaving ad nauseam in are just too strong.

i'll post my full in/out sideboard list when im finished, but in the meantime i think these points are fine for discussion (and i realize they have been discussed before, but they remain relevant questions with answers that change and the topic of discussion in this thread is always cyclical)

[meffeo]

Do you guys find yourselves not needing a Bob/Pyromancer type of threat to bring in against miracles?

I'd suggest the 3rd and the 4th AD + the evergreen Krosan Grip, just to be sure that in response to a [whatever threat] they won't be able to tap the Top and draw that goddamn Flusterstorm left on top.


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[CabalTherapy]

I'd suggest the 3rd and the 4th AD + the evergreen Krosan Grip, just to be sure that in response to a [whatever threat] they won't be able to tap the Top and draw that goddamn Flusterstorm left on top.

[meffeo]

Where's the LIKE button?


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[Jonathan Alexander]

Odds are, if you can resolve City of Solitude, you can also resolve Past in Flames, Ad Nauseam or Infernal Tutor.

[sawatarix]

Odds are, if you can resolve City of Solitude, you can also resolve Past in Flames, Ad Nauseam or Infernal Tutor.

Yeah basically you just increase the amount of business spells in your deck or let's say 'must counter spells'. Most of the time it has been a 3 maan duress for me.

[Megadeus]

Running the double PiF main deck already helps me out against counters a bit. I like the third and maybe the fourth decay just because I need to kill stuff like CB, Cage, and RIP.

[CabalTherapy]

Odds are, if you can resolve City of Solitude, you can also resolve Past in Flames, Ad Nauseam or Infernal Tutor.

No! And it is not a cc3 Duress either. It doesn't care about Flusterstorm and hardly gets hit by Counterbalance. It is like a permanent Silence effect and works for me very well. Additionally, it tests the water if it is too dangerous or clear. But if you guys don't like it: even better for me since the surprise factor is preserved (at least at bigger tournaments).

[owerbart]

i was about to say that. i can't win against my opponent which always leaves a flusterstorm on top with his SDT, since i can't discard it away :(

[Megadeus]

One trick that is mana intensive and tough sometimes but works is to decay the top so they are forced to flip it, then you can discard their spell. It's not as simple as something like city of solitude, but it is a line.

[KevinH]

Also, that's what Xantid Swarm is for.

[mishima_kazuya]

I don't think a 3 mana protection spell is a good idea. Xantid Swarm is nice, but I keep on finding that it dies to the removal that my opponent's correctly don't side out. So maybe City of Solitude or Defense Grid would be nice, but they sure walk into Daze and Spell Pierce a lot.
Anyways here is the list that I have been running to success in local Legacy tournaments and on MTGO.

2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony

2 Xantid Swarm
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Massacre

[sawatarix]

new topic:
has anyone experience with countermagic in the mainboard?

My friend in japan plays this at the moment,have a closer look:




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[entreri_fans]

The deck is cool, but here it seems force/daze is only viable to counter opponent threat/combo/discard. but sometimes we just go off before these things become relevant

our counter spell is still bad with LED/Infernal interaction, which means we can't protect our own combo against opponent counter spell

[Megadeus]

Seems unnecessary... Just PiF yo. Who cares about counters when you can go off multiple times? Went 3-0-1 tonight with my last list -3 pyromancers, +1 KGrip, +1 Lightning Bolt, +1 Pyroblast, mostly because I lacked decays and KGrips. Beat Elves, Jund, and UB Tezzerator. That seems like a real bad match up. Chalice+force and such is pretty bad for us. Luckily I somehow fought through game 1 chalice on 1 and a force in hand because PiF is a good card. He locked me out in game two with Chalice, 3ball and then after I decay the chalice on 1 a second chalice. Seems rough.

[sawatarix]

I did some test ganes yesterday.

Daze is almost always a hardcouterspell until turn 3.
Remember that this is the turn when we usually win the game.
We can counter deathrite shamans,counterbalances and hymn to tourachs easily with daze,so it's supposed to be a proactive counterspell.

Countering a Turn 2 Thalia isn't that bad actually.

I don't want to push this deck idea but my testing games where actually not that bad.

But i would cut fows for additional cantrips/petals

[CabalTherapy]

I don't think a 3 mana protection spell is a good idea. Xantid Swarm is nice, but I keep on finding that it dies to the removal that my opponent's correctly don't side out. So maybe City of Solitude or Defense Grid would be nice, but they sure walk into Daze and Spell Pierce a lot.

Nice; I like your statement, especially because it shows that you a) did not properly read about City of Solitude and b) have not tested it.

[P-E]

Daze seems funny to try
Did you ever use daze then drop the bounced land for mana?

[Togores]

Daze gives you a storm for the cost of one landdrop.

Semms nice. But idk if in the 1st turns its good to fall back on lands...