Page 304 of 313 FirstFirst ... 204254294300301302303304305306307308 ... LastLast
Results 6,061 to 6,080 of 6252

Thread: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

  1. #6061

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    That`s close to the list I thoughted of. Like mentioned I haven`t acess to a bayou right now, so would the list also work with just a Tropical as a green mana source and a Chrome Mox insstead of the 15. land bayou? Or is the danger to high to get screwed on green and then you can`t cast your sideboard spells.

  2. #6062

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I think the biggest reason to play Bayou is that a very significant portion of the time, for the games you're fetching green you're wanting to fetch Bayou over Trop. This means you're able to cast discard plus ritual in the same turn. Trop doesn't allow for this

    You'll likely often be fine with just a trop. You can try running something like rain of filth in the last slot (the card is awesome :)). It just leads to some awkward positions

  3. #6063

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by fangzie View Post
    I think the biggest reason to play Bayou is that a very significant portion of the time, for the games you're fetching green you're wanting to fetch Bayou over Trop. This means you're able to cast discard plus ritual in the same turn. Trop doesn't allow for this

    You'll likely often be fine with just a trop. You can try running something like rain of filth in the last slot (the card is awesome :)). It just leads to some awkward positions
    So without Bayou is it just better to go Grixis? After a few couple of testing I have mentioned that Ant sometimes is really slow and lacks in Buisness compared to TES, which I have played first but switched to Ant, because it felt often times a bit unconsistent (the reason why I switched to Ant). So may it an option to add the good old Grim Tutor maybe for a Preordain or in the Slot of Chrome Mox or Rain of filth? If it so that would be better in the Grixis build? Also having Empty main performed nice for me against Delver which makes the biggest part of the whole format, so I rather would have a second R source main so that brings me to Badlands and to stay away from adding the green splash, but I am not sure.

  4. #6064

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhole View Post
    So without Bayou is it just better to go Grixis?
    I personally only see disadvantages in playing Grixis. I don't believe playing the green splash has a significant impact on the mana base and moving to grixis restricts the sideboard cards you're able to play.

    After a few couple of testing I have mentioned that Ant sometimes is really slow and lacks in Buisness compared to TES
    I hear this a lot, but I'm not sure I agree. TES plays 10 pieces of business, ANT builds are currently typically on 9. They just require you to jump through different hoops to the TES options.


    So may it an option to add the good old Grim Tutor maybe for a Preordain or in the Slot of Chrome Mox or Rain of filth? If it so that would be better in the Grixis build? Also having Empty main performed nice for me against Delver which makes the biggest part of the whole format, so I rather would have a second R source main so that brings me to Badlands and to stay away from adding the green splash, but I am not sure.
    I think if you're adding yet another tutor, you might want to try a list without any ad nauseam main. You may or may not find it to taste, but it's worth playing around with it. You're right in that Empty is a house vs Delver are there are merits to running it main. I'm not convinved it justifies a second red dual however. A very large percentage of the time it'll be resolved off the back of infernal tutor/LED so red won't be an issue. Or to put it another way, if the second red dual isn't needed for double PiF, I don't see why it's needed for PiF plus empty

  5. #6065
    Member
    Togores's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    Madrid (Spain)
    Posts

    734

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhole View Post
    That`s close to the list I thoughted of. Like mentioned I haven`t acess to a bayou right now, so would the list also work with just a Tropical as a green mana source and a Chrome Mox insstead of the 15. land bayou? Or is the danger to high to get screwed on green and then you can`t cast your sideboard spells.

    You can play only with trop, and badlands instead of bayou, but may be 5 green cards in the sb are too many for only one green land. I have played grixis + trop with 2 AD + 1 XS and no ground seal

  6. #6066

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I have done a couple of testings last night. What I can say is that I`m really fine with only one red mana. I wasn`t in any spot were I would have needed a second red source.So Badlands is dismissed
    From that experience I think I go like Togores suggested me with one Trop and a light Green sideboard. Anyway I was fine with 14 lands instead of the common 15 so I stay with Chrome Mox or try Rain of filth. I think I go with 3 - 4 green Cards 2 Abrupt Decay and 1 or 2 Xantid. Silent Gravestone seems like a good alternative to Ground Seal and maybe Defense Greed would do Xantid`s job, maybe better. Often times opps don`t board out all their removel.

  7. #6067

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhole View Post
    I have done a couple of testings last night. What I can say is that I`m really fine with only one red mana. I wasn`t in any spot were I would have needed a second red source.So Badlands is dismissed
    From that experience I think I go like Togores suggested me with one Trop and a light Green sideboard. Anyway I was fine with 14 lands instead of the common 15 so I stay with Chrome Mox or try Rain of filth. I think I go with 3 - 4 green Cards 2 Abrupt Decay and 1 or 2 Xantid. Silent Gravestone seems like a good alternative to Ground Seal and maybe Defense Greed would do Xantid`s job, maybe better. Often times opps don`t board out all their removel.
    You won't notice the difference between 1 and 2 red duals in 1 night of testing but over many many games. It's entirely possible to only need that extra red land once every hundred games, but if that game shows up in a big tournament, well, GG. That said, I think small changes like that are marginal and the real make or break with storm is player skill. One of the better player on here even took a 7 silence build to a local and crushed it if I'm remembering correctly (don't remember what page it was on). That said, your proposed configuration seems fine, the deck is powerful and will be good whether you're 4c, Grixis, only 1 trop etc.

  8. #6068

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_D View Post
    You won't notice the difference between 1 and 2 red duals in 1 night of testing but over many many games. It's entirely possible to only need that extra red land once every hundred games, but if that game shows up in a big tournament, well, GG. That said, I think small changes like that are marginal and the real make or break with storm is player skill. One of the better player on here even took a 7 silence build to a local and crushed it if I'm remembering correctly (don't remember what page it was on). That said, your proposed configuration seems fine, the deck is powerful and will be good whether you're 4c, Grixis, only 1 trop etc.
    Yes i totally agree with the point that a good player is the biggest factor for a well performing storm deck. My first few matches with ANT were just... . So if the Splash color doesn`t matter that much I think I would go grixis, because I still have it toghter and can use the fetches for Sneak and Show, where I maybe would buy into as a second deck.

  9. #6069

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhole View Post
    Yes i totally agree with the point that a good player is the biggest factor for a well performing storm deck. My first few matches with ANT were just... . So if the Splash color doesn`t matter that much I think I would go grixis, because I still have it toghter and can use the fetches for Sneak and Show, where I maybe would buy into as a second deck.
    There's great players that swear by the green splash and great players that play Grixis. The best option is just having all the duals you would need regardless

  10. #6070

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    That`s always the master`s plan .
    Ok I was just wondering because most of the Top 8 and tourney winner Ant lists at tcdecks have the G-Splash in it, so I thoughted that is automatically better. But maybe it is just that it is more popular, so more Top 8 results. I know Caleb Scherer for example most of the time plays the grixis build.

  11. #6071
    WTP's Choice
    CabalTherapy's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    685

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    My quick MKM Series Hamburg recap: 260 players, 9 rounds
    Played Grim Storm with 2 Pif, 1 Adn, 1 Grim, 15 lands, 6 discard main/ EtW SB

    2:0 Death and Taxes - Game 1 was pretty long because I drew mono lands and he mono durdle dudes.
    2:0 White Stax - Won game 1 through Trini and Chalice0 with CR, CR, CR, CR, Grim > Toa after setting it up a bit
    2:0 Lands - Had P.Deed in game 2 to blow up his Damping Sphere and Chalice0
    2:1 BR Reanimator - Close game 3, played the control role
    1:2 Steel Stompy - Lost to Lodestone in game 3, had the kill prepared for next turn
    2:0 BR Reanimator - Though he is on Elves = he slams Griselbrand, forgot his Chancellor trigger and I could win via AdN on turn 1
    2:0 Moon Stompy - Game loss after game 1 for my opponent because he presented 59/16 after boarding, unfortunate for him
    0:2 Moon Stompy - because why not, he drew all his stuff, I misjudged my AdN flips which were horrible in game 1 and died some turns later
    0:2 Steel Stompy - Turn 1 discard: Thorn, draw: Thorn says it all, into multiple Thorns and copying Thorn with Metamorph and so on

    No Islands, no Brainstorms.
    Mono Tombs.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  12. #6072

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    My quick MKM Series Hamburg recap: 260 players, 9 rounds
    No Islands, no Brainstorms.
    Mono Tombs.
    We have a big (for Australia) event coming up soon. I dread that I'm going to see the same meta

  13. #6073
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Feb 2015
    Location

    Detroit, MI
    Posts

    370

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    My quick MKM Series Hamburg recap: 260 players, 9 rounds
    Played Grim Storm with 2 Pif, 1 Adn, 1 Grim, 15 lands, 6 discard main/ EtW SB

    No Islands, no Brainstorms.
    Mono Tombs.
    Hey CabalTherapy!
    Curious what your SB is and in/out vs. R Stompy. Also, do you have a game plan? I've been looking for some way to make these games more interactive. Regardless if I win or lose (except once) it's mind numbing to play against. Also, what MUs do you keep the 5 tutors? I probably side out GT too often.

  14. #6074
    WTP's Choice
    CabalTherapy's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    685

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    Hey CabalTherapy!
    Curious what your SB is and in/out vs. R Stompy. Also, do you have a game plan? I've been looking for some way to make these games more interactive. Regardless if I win or lose (except once) it's mind numbing to play against. Also, what MUs do you keep the 5 tutors? I probably side out GT too often.
    Not really a game plan to be honest. I try to play my game accordingly and hope for the best. I think I did something like this:

    +2 H Recall
    +2 AD
    +1 Bayou
    +1 EtW
    +1 Deed
    (+1 Chain of Vapor)

    -3 discard (on the draw)/ on the play I usually take out 1-2 and some Ponder
    -2 preordain
    -1 CR
    -1 USea

    I like having GT against most non-tempo decks. I'm not siding it out against combo and control in general. Usually it's against Grixis Delver and faster deck where it visits the SB.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  15. #6075
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Feb 2015
    Location

    Detroit, MI
    Posts

    370

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I've made the following play with mixed result:
    I have 1 b source available and discard but need to ritual first. I know the opponent has FoW and play GP then ritual. Basically, probe into ritual knowing they have counter. Surprised how often they counter the ritual in this sequence.

  16. #6076

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    I've made the following play with mixed result:
    I have 1 b source available and discard but need to ritual first. I know the opponent has FoW and play GP then ritual. Basically, probe into ritual knowing they have counter. Surprised how often they counter the ritual in this sequence.
    i generally find that if you Dark Ritual and then Probe they will counter it less. Even if they know that you know that they have a FoW, Probing makes them think about the discard to follow.

  17. #6077

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Hey Stormers. Sad to see the thread so dead recently, I still pop in when I can.

    I was lucky enough to be invited to talk about ANT on The Eternal Durdles Podcast this week. Here is a link for anyone interested.

    https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2...s-corman-gill/

  18. #6078
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Feb 2015
    Location

    Detroit, MI
    Posts

    370

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by CyrusCG View Post
    i generally find that if you Dark Ritual and then Probe they will counter it less. Even if they know that you know that they have a FoW, Probing makes them think about the discard to follow.
    I think the opposite honestly but I'll consider this. To me the probe / rit sequence signals a bait like I've got the kill regardless so counter this if you'd like... but I have enough mixed results that I wanted feedback.

    Edit: considering this more...

    "Probing makes them think about the discard to follow" -- Are you guessing this is a response to the usual probe / therapy interaction and it just triggers a Pavlovian response?

    I can see possibly that the opponent might feel more inclined to counter the ritual for 3 reasons: 1) they think you have a hand that just beats the FoW so the mana generated by the ritual might be important enough, 2) because you have perfect information, they respond more carelessly or 3) they need black mana to combo with discard. Reasons to not counter 1) assuming the storm player is baiting and wants you to counter the ritual to discard the FoW, 2) save the FoW for higher impact spell. I'd like to be convinced why countering the ritual in this situation is more likely when probe / ritual than ritual first. Number 3 above seems like the best reason to counter and the baiting idea is the best reason to not.
    Last edited by ScottW; 06-11-2018 at 11:34 PM.

  19. #6079
    Member

    Join Date

    Aug 2015
    Location

    The woods again
    Posts

    1,096

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    I think the opposite honestly but I'll consider this. To me the probe / rit sequence signals a bait like I've got the kill regardless so counter this if you'd like... but I have enough mixed results that I wanted feedback. . . . I can see possibly that the opponent might feel more inclined to counter the ritual for 3 reasons: 1) they think you have a hand that just beats the FoW so the mana generated by the ritual might be important enough, 2) because you have perfect information, they respond more carelessly or 3) they need black mana to combo with discard. Reasons to not counter 1) assuming the storm player is baiting and wants you to counter the ritual to discard the FoW, 2) save the FoW for higher impact spell. I'd like to be convinced why countering the ritual in this situation is more likely when probe / ritual than ritual first. Number 3 above seems like the best reason to counter and the baiting idea is the best reason to not.
    One thing to consider is that even if you Probe and see countermagic, they can reasonably assume you'd play out any extra mana sources if you were to have them before firing a Ritual. I guess the stage of the game counts a lot for this discussion; if we're tapped out, that makes a big difference. There's also the question of whether they think they can kill us faster than we can kill them (S&T/Reanimans).

    [EDIT: Are you assuming for the sake of the discussion that the opponent only has one counterspell?]
    All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
    PM me if you want to contribute!
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

    Roses are red, violets are blue
    Omae wa mou shindeiru
    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  20. #6080
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Feb 2015
    Location

    Detroit, MI
    Posts

    370

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    One thing to consider is that even if you Probe and see countermagic, they can reasonably assume you'd play out any extra mana sources if you were to have them before firing a Ritual.
    Not if I want them to counter the ritual
    [EDIT: Are you assuming for the sake of the discussion that the opponent only has one counterspell?] Yes, FoW
    Point is that this sequence makes the opponent less likely to counter the ritual because they think it's a bait spell for the FoW.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)