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Thread: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

  1. #2041
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    As a miracle player i am interested how you deal with things like clique or Venser lock. Also how do you deal with a lethal entreat at the end of your turn.
    Mircale has to invest 1 card to win the late and this is Senseiīs Divining Top. The rest of the game we can wait with the hand full of answers until we
    can get either multiple locks assembled or kill you with entreat without you getting an addtional turn.

    So from my point of view Miracles have the better late since you canīt win the Control exchange when you play against a true control deck.
    Btw to win against Clique and Venser lock the top is the key because it gives you the chance to go equal on card Quality with the Miracle deck
    and avoid being locked down because it finds you more combo pieces over time than we can put away.

  2. #2042
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I don't think Venser lock is unbeatable. You just need more mana. Clique can be beaten by getting multiple win conditions. Even simply floating a tutor or PiF on top, dumping everything but a cantrip then letting your opponent clique you wins. It's certainly a pain, but not unbeatable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  3. #2043

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinZ View Post
    u cannot rely on xantid swarm too much against miracle, it is correct to side in swarm but swarm is just mediocre in this mu.

    Siding swarm in vs RUG is wrong in any case. they will never side out bolt for the sake of tempo, trading one for one is meaningless and exposing yourself to wasteland is really bad.

    I don't like needle on top. needle is a narrow sideboard card for us, and I myself play top(one in main and one in sb). Post board games vs miracle usually are grinding, I prefer my top to help me finding those specific cards that I need, for example decay or grip.
    1, agree
    2, disagree, at 2G lands I'd board 3 against unknown Threshold player before doing anything else, Bolt-Swarm trade unnecessary with CT and usualy saves you the 1 turn if happens
    3, fighting a 4-of by worse utilization of a 2-of just cannot work in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Teveshszat View Post
    As a miracle player i am interested how you deal with things like clique or Venser lock. Also how do you deal with a lethal entreat at the end of your turn.
    Mircale has to invest 1 card to win the late and this is Senseiīs Divining Top. The rest of the game we can wait with the hand full of answers until we
    can get either multiple locks assembled or kill you with entreat without you getting an addtional turn.

    So from my point of view Miracles have the better late since you canīt win the Control exchange when you play against a true control deck.
    Btw to win against Clique and Venser lock the top is the key because it gives you the chance to go equal on card Quality with the Miracle deck
    and avoid being locked down because it finds you more combo pieces over time than we can put away.
    majority of builds, so called Austrian school does not support this... as I'm living in Europe I don't care at all, because likelyhood of this ever happening is very low (Venser)... Might be difficult but it's definitely possible and depends on the game situation, If the "lock" is your only thing you have in the game I won't count on you living a long life and so on...

    EtA is a problem in the equation, but I'd otherwise agree ToA deck is favoured against a horde of counterspells (for exaple a Landstill kind of deck)
    Last edited by Sloshthedark; 02-20-2015 at 05:03 PM.

  4. #2044
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Megadeus
    I don't think Venser lock is unbeatable. You just need more mana. Clique can be beaten by getting multiple win conditions. Even simply floating a tutor or PiF on top, dumping everything but a cantrip then letting your opponent clique you wins. It's certainly a pain, but not unbeatable.
    Never said that it is unbeatable. What I tried to express is that to claim a combo deck has a better late game than a control deck is a little bit problematic. And as you said if you can float a second win condition on top of your libary it helps you alot. And this is why I like top in these decks because it allows you that move without it you have less control over the libary and this could lead to a loss.

    the thing if the game last long enough we get more mana and with enough mana I can bounce 2 lands each turn or cast entreat so the late game should be more on the side of miracles than on the site of the combo deck if it not plays top to migrate the quality advantage of miracles.

  5. #2045
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    I don't think Venser lock is unbeatable.
    No but you are going to have a hard as hell time tutoring when you cannot get hellbent because they've bounced a land to your hand after LED activation. A miracles player with that line should just not let you assemble double LED and then you'd be a in a lot of trouble.
    Matt Bevenour in real life

  6. #2046

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Tammit67 View Post
    No but you are going to have a hard as hell time tutoring when you cannot get hellbent because they've bounced a land to your hand after LED activation. A miracles player with that line should just not let you assemble double LED and then you'd be a in a lot of trouble.
    Well the games versus miracles go long, if venser actually matters it is obviously a long drawn out game, so there is plenty of time to prepare for this by finding two LEDs. Even then some decks run grim tutor and if the game is going that long it isn't hard to naturally dump your hand so you don't need to crack the LED.

  7. #2047

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    There are so many ways to win against miracle that i would like to write a book about it.

    Last week i joined the Big Magic Open in Yokohama/Japan were i finished 37th.
    During the tournament I faced miracle 2 times and i always boarded additional tendrils of agony during g2.
    For g3 i took out all additional Toa for Xantid Swarm and actually next leveled my opponents who boarded out all their removal after g2.

    Edit: We are finally DTB again so....Beer and Sake for everyone !

  8. #2048

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by sawatarix View Post
    There are so many ways to win against miracle that i would like to write a book about it.

    Last week i joined the Big Magic Open in Yokohama/Japan were i finished 37th.
    During the tournament I faced miracle 2 times and i always boarded additional tendrils of agony during g2.
    For g3 i took out all additional Toa for Xantid Swarm and actually next leveled my opponents who boarded out all their removal after g2.

    Edit: We are finally DTB again so....Beer and Sake for everyone !
    is Takahashi Yuutaa good storm player? his build is again a bit unorthodox
    btw. the deck that ended up 6th in the open...wow... I get the impression my wild 4C brews I build time to time might work i japan =D

    We know we are DTB all the time, I don't like other knowing that too.. it has been long since we got out and even weren't DTB during TC, the forum is easy to find again at least

  9. #2049

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    well obviously, otherwise he wouldn't made top 8 right?


    He took 1 ancient grudge in his sideboard to combat ethersworn canonist and mud decks.
    i would still stick with decays, it's still the best removal ant has to offer.

  10. #2050

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by sawatarix View Post
    well obviously, otherwise he wouldn't made top 8 right?


    He took 1 ancient grudge in his sideboard to combat ethersworn canonist and mud decks.
    i would still stick with decays, it's still the best removal ant has to offer.
    That's far from obvious (see SCG circuit... I know, japs have different level), I got from coverage he is some kind of "pro", that's why I'm asking, being a good player picking up a good deck and being good Ant player are 2 different things ...

    yeah I get it, he seems to respect Mud a lot with 2 Recalls and does not care much about Miracles, there are few other things - no swamp MD, SB - 2 EtW, Disfigure, 1-of Defense Grid/Reverent silence
    link for others to see

  11. #2051
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Tammit67 View Post
    No but you are going to have a hard as hell time tutoring when you cannot get hellbent because they've bounced a land to your hand after LED activation. A miracles player with that line should just not let you assemble double LED and then you'd be a in a lot of trouble.
    Quote Originally Posted by BTY View Post
    Well the games versus miracles go long, if venser actually matters it is obviously a long drawn out game, so there is plenty of time to prepare for this by finding two LEDs. Even then some decks run grim tutor and if the game is going that long it isn't hard to naturally dump your hand so you don't need to crack the LED.
    I think I see the problem. I actually board down to 2 Infernal Tutor and 2 Lion's Eye Diamond, because it's almost impossible to resolve a hellbent Tutor anyway. There are just too many ways to stop it, from floating counters with Top to Vendilion Clique in response to the card before Tutor. This is what I usually have after boarding:

    2 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal

    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Cabal Ritual
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Krosan Grip
    1 Rain of Filth

    1 Island
    2 Swamp
    1 Bayou
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island

    4 Cabal Therapy
    1 Duress
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Infernal Tutor
    1 Past in Flames
    4 Ponder
    3 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Thoughtseize
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

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  12. #2052
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark View Post
    That's far from obvious (see SCG circuit... I know, japs have different level), I got from coverage he is some kind of "pro", that's why I'm asking, being a good player picking up a good deck and being good Ant player are 2 different things ...

    yeah I get it, he seems to respect Mud a lot with 2 Recalls and does not care much about Miracles, there are few other things - no swamp MD, SB - 2 EtW, Disfigure, 1-of Defense Grid/Reverent silence
    link for others to see
    That sb is interesting...but I cannot tell anything for lack of knowlege about the meta there.

    Also, I nearly give up the mud match-up(no specific sb cards for this mu) and got punished today. I lost to MUD twice in today's gpt, the same player beat me in swiss and semi-finals with a total 4:0....

    In one game, I duressed him and miss, then he natrually drew a turn two trinisphere. Another game, I got rid of his chalice on turn one on the play, I saw trinisphere and no sol lands. I pondered next turn and found I could go off on turn there, but he then drew a monolith and cast trinisphere...
    Team Blood, Beijing.
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  13. #2053
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jona View Post
    I think I see the problem. I actually board down to 2 Infernal Tutor and 2 Lion's Eye Diamond, because it's almost impossible to resolve a hellbent Tutor anyway. There are just too many ways to stop it, from floating counters with Top to Vendilion Clique in response to the card before Tutor. This is what I usually have after boarding:

    2 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal

    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Cabal Ritual
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Krosan Grip
    1 Rain of Filth

    1 Island
    2 Swamp
    1 Bayou
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island

    4 Cabal Therapy
    1 Duress
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Infernal Tutor
    1 Past in Flames
    4 Ponder
    3 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Thoughtseize
    Why board out LED before petal in this MU? LED is much better to help fuel a PiF. I was hoping this wouldn't become a dtb until after next month's invitational...
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  14. #2054
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Petal is good with the good cards in the deck whereas LED is good with the bad cards. I also board out the second copy of Past in Flames.
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

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  15. #2055

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    The Mud Matchups is very close to a coonflip.
    You have to take mulligans aggressively until you have a hand which can win on turn 1-2. or tun 3 with double discard backup.

    i generally like the grinding station approach although vendillion clique is pretty annoying if it gets cast during the comboturn itself.

  16. #2056
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jona View Post
    Petal is good with the good cards in the deck whereas LED is good with the bad cards. I also board out the second copy of Past in Flames.
    That's fair. Those of you who run grim tutor, how do you like it? Last time I saw it in action it cost a guy 9 life (flip off of AN, cast, flashback) and he died. I could see it in the build that eschews Ad Nauseam as another business spell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  17. #2057

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Yesterday there a couple of Legacy Grand Prix Kyoto Trials in Tokyo where i currently live so i went to one of them which was at Kawasaki.

    i had a fantastic run with a 50 record after swiss beating
    2:0 Bug Delver
    2:0 Slivers
    2:0 Elves
    2:0 Rug Delver
    1:2 Omnitell
    2:0 Hive Mind

    (G2 against Hive Mind was pretty awesome because i was indeed able to pay the upkeep costs for 2 pacts with Leds and Rituals,haha)

    Quarterfinal: 2:0 UR Delver
    Semifinal: 2:1 Omnitell
    Final: 2:1 RUG Delver

    Victory ! And 2 Byes for Grand Prix Kyoto which feels pretty good.


    here is my decklist for reference,you will notice that there are some significant changes compared to the lists i'm usually used to play.
    Check it out!

    Greetings from Tokyo,

    Kai

    Ant.dec, Built with Decked Builder
    http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/44371

  18. #2058
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    How are you liking the 2nd past in flames over ad nauseam main?

  19. #2059

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    They were awesome, they are pretty good against delver decks or other aggresive decks or decks with a ton of countermagic.
    Thoughtseize is also playable now because lifepoints don't matter.

    ad nauseam comes in only against combodecks, discard decks and death and taxes.

  20. #2060
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I really like the list. Was actually thinking of a single burning wish as well just for flexibility. The only thing Id like to try is a couple of bolts SB. I feel like bears are on the rise
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

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