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Thread: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

  1. #21
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Machahiko View Post
    Good question, in this deck I just feel like it's a card that can be cut out easily. Other easy cuts are Preordains and the singleton SDT or Cabal Ritual, besides that taking out any of the other cards feels like diluting or taking out too good pieces of your deck. I find Discard hard to cut and the fast mana is very good as well. What would you suggest to take out instead of Gitaxian Probes - Preordains & Lotus Petals or something completely different?
    Lotus petal is another card, that quickly creates thresh and is a red initial mana, so i doubt it. Easy cut is duress in matchups against maverick, D&T or Show&Tell (leyline) and the beforementioned preordain and a single ponder/sdt(/CabalRitual/LED). Depending on your opponent you might wanna board out Ad Nauseam (Burn or even tempo) or EtW (Elves, Batterskull, miracles). That should make easily 4 or even more spots to board in hate
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Well, this is exactly why I wanted to bring this up, because the deck seems so dense that it's really hard to take anything out and Carsten Kotter in his article says that taking discard out first if possible, then the weakest cards that you have. Timo Schünemann in his Eternal-Central article is siding out gitaxian probes in almost every matchup. I'll try sideboarding like this later on when playtesting!


  3. #23
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Machahiko View Post
    Well, this is exactly why I wanted to bring this up, because the deck seems so dense that it's really hard to take anything out and Carsten Kotter in his article says that taking discard out first if possible, then the weakest cards that you have. Timo Schünemann in his Eternal-Central article is siding out gitaxian probes in almost every matchup. I'll try sideboarding like this later on when playtesting!

    Dunno about Timo's approach, but Carsten is a local, therefore you may render me biased ;)

    In essence, I would not take any actions that make the deck slower than it already is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
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  4. #24

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I swap cabal rituals for carpets, preordains for decay or chain of vapor, duress for swarm or dread of night.

    I don't like boarding out skeleton of the deck.

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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by m_xer View Post
    I swap cabal rituals for carpets, preordains for decay or chain of vapor, duress for swarm or dread of night.

    I don't like boarding out skeleton of the deck.
    I can get behind that
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  6. #26
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by bjholmes3 View Post
    vs. Blade Control

    This deck has risen from the dead courtesy of it's new friend in TNN. It makes use of Stoneforge Mystic to empower its beaters and to win games. MB Vendilion Cliques, discard, counters, and Snapcaster to do it all again are things we need to keep our eyes on. When using discard, consider what you plan to do for the next couple turns and then make your decision. If you plan on going off next turn, their clock is largely irrelevant (unless it's about to stroke midnight, of course), so you should aim for their disruption. However, if you need more time for your combo, their clock becomes much more important, because you can always dig for more business. Stoneforge is always a problem and should be dealt with if you can't win by turn 4. TNN without Stoneforge is not a very big threat, and even with her/equipment, it still takes until turn 6 or so for things to add up. Postboard, they have more counters and discard, along with potential grave hate and Tidehollow Sculler. They'll be much more disruptive game 2/3, so be on point with your Therapies. Again, bring in your removal, it hits almost everything, bring in your extra discard, and consider bringing your Swarms in (this makes their removal relevant, so be warned).
    Unless I put my opponent on either Canonist or Meddling mage post board I would never bring in removal against blade decks. Decay doesn't kill the only thing we care about (Batterskull) and their clock isn't anywhere near fast enough to dilute the deck. Swarms I would consider for game 3 only if I saw an excess of flusterstorms and such and still only if I expect the player to keep a hand with only counters.

    Dark Confidant is less common these days but definitely deserves a spot in the primer.
    Also how is URW delver an old deck and BUG control a new kid on the block?...

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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz View Post
    Unless I put my opponent on either Canonist or Meddling mage post board I would never bring in removal against blade decks. Decay doesn't kill the only thing we care about (Batterskull) and their clock isn't anywhere near fast enough to dilute the deck. Swarms I would consider for game 3 only if I saw an excess of flusterstorms and such and still only if I expect the player to keep a hand with only counters.

    Dark Confidant is less common these days but definitely deserves a spot in the primer.
    Also how is URW delver an old deck and BUG control a new kid on the block?...
    Decay hits germ token just fine. If you're letting them live till 5 mana, sure they can re-equip but you can just blast whatever they put it on every time.

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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz View Post
    Unless I put my opponent on either Canonist or Meddling mage post board I would never bring in removal against blade decks. Decay doesn't kill the only thing we care about (Batterskull) and their clock isn't anywhere near fast enough to dilute the deck.
    Once your opponent runs white I bet they bring in Cannonist, Thalia or Maddling Mage. Not boarding in removal equals a loss ... BoM lesson ;)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  9. #29
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    There is only one turn between when they can attack with a germ and when they will have 5 mana so I'm still seeing no point in trying to fight batterskull that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    Once your opponent runs white I bet they bring in Cannonist, Thalia or Maddling Mage. Not boarding in removal equals a loss ... BoM lesson ;)
    There should probably be a mention of this in the primer then.

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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Some quick ideas regarding boarding cards out:

    Discard: Discard can be boarded out often, replacing them with answers for permanent hate against decks without counters.

    Cabal Ritual: 1 is often shaved, 1-2 can be replaced by Carpet.

    Gitaxian Probe: 1-2 are often cut, not if goblins, therapy or speed are key in the matchups strategic plan.

    Preordain: Get boarded out often, but never against discard decks.

    Land #15: A basic versus decks without LD sometimes

    PiF: I board it out vs miracles (RiP and can usually tutor chain)

    AdN/EtW: Often one main and one sb.

    A tutor: Grim Tutor when life matters or 1 IT when it doesn't can be boarded out but you need a good reason and I don't often do so. Same deal with the 4th LED.

    Don't board out:
    Brainstorm, Ponder, Ritual, LP, 2 CRit, 3 LED, 3 IT, Tendrils, 14 Lands
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  11. #31
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Machahiko View Post
    Well, this is exactly why I wanted to bring this up, because the deck seems so dense that it's really hard to take anything out and Carsten Kotter in his article says that taking discard out first if possible, then the weakest cards that you have. Timo Schünemann in his Eternal-Central article is siding out gitaxian probes in almost every matchup. I'll try sideboarding like this later on when playtesting!

    I can search my Pc for some of Timos boardingplans. I am sure I do not have his BoM Sideboarding, but some of his later decklists where similar to the version he is playing now and I updated the boardingplans everytime he sent me his newest changes to the deck. The decklist in his Eternal-Central article was about Burning Wish ANT which boards differently due to more business cards in Burning Wish which never got boardet out and less cantrips. I can PM you what I got on my Pc after work or at the weekend...I am a bit busy right now :/

    I can ask him for his BoM plans but he is not often online on Facebook lately and I won't probably see him personally till GP Paris.

    As for a boarding section in the primer I guess something like Bryan's approach in the TES primer might be the best. We do not have that one list which most people agree on. Some people use 16 cantrips, some use Burning Wish or even Grim Tutor in the main. Some explanation on the matchups for what cards are the least useful and what cards might be needed is probably the best solution. The Jund primer did something similar if I remember right.

    If we want a decklist with "set in stone" boardingplans (-a -b -c +x +y +z) for the primer I guess the 16 cantrip version will fit the most as it is the most basic version of the deck (ANT blueprint like Jona said) and most decklists nowadays are just slightly different (at least maindeck). It is also a good starting point for new ANT players to get a feeling for the deck before changes to the deck are done by themselves.

    Greetings Chris

    Edit: @Jamie's Boarding: This is kind of what I meant with Bryan's approach and I think this will be the best form for boarding guidelines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamieW89 View Post
    Some quick ideas regarding boarding cards out: Discard: Discard can be boarded out often, replacing them with answers for permanent hate against decks without counters. Cabal Ritual: 1 is often shaved, 1-2 can be replaced by Carpet. Gitaxian Probe: 1-2 are often cut, not if goblins, therapy or speed are key in the matchups strategic plan. Preordain: Get boarded out often, but never against discard decks. Land #15: A basic versus decks without LD sometimes PiF: I board it out vs miracles (RiP and can usually tutor chain) AdN/EtW: Often one main and one sb. A tutor: Grim Tutor when life matters or 1 IT when it doesn't can be boarded out but you need a good reason and I don't often do so. Same deal with the 4th LED. Don't board out: Brainstorm, Ponder, Ritual, LP, 2 CRit, 3 LED, 3 IT, Tendrils, 14 Lands
    I have never and probably will never board out gitaxian probes, it has far too much synergy with the rest of the deck and I probably wouldn't ever board out a tutor in a standard list unless I was playing wishes in which case I do it all the time.

  13. #33

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    With the uptick in cards like Meddling Mage and Golgari Charm/Zealous Persecution, doesn't it mean Burning ANT is the way to go? Burning Wish gets Massacre for hatebears (Teeg is not very popular and you still have Chain of Vapor/Grapeshot/Pyroclasm), and Golgari Charm effects make Goblins less than appealing (so don't play TES). Plus, Past in Flames is just incredibly broken.

  14. #34
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindlash View Post
    As for a boarding section in the primer I guess something like Bryan's approach in the TES primer might be the best. We do not have that one list which most people agree on. Some people use 16 cantrips, some use Burning Wish or even Grim Tutor in the main. Some explanation on the matchups for what cards are the least useful and what cards might be needed is probably the best solution. The Jund primer did something similar if I remember right.

    If we want a decklist with "set in stone" boardingplans (-a -b -c +x +y +z) for the primer I guess the 16 cantrip version will fit the most as it is the most basic version of the deck (ANT blueprint like Jona said) and most decklists nowadays are just slightly different (at least maindeck). It is also a good starting point for new ANT players to get a feeling for the deck before changes to the deck are done by themselves.

    Greetings Chris

    Edit: @Jamie's Boarding: This is kind of what I meant with Bryan's approach and I think this will be the best form for boarding guidelines.
    I like giving explanations on which cards are good and which don't matter much, out of the usual choices. That way, you can cover multiple versions and sideboard without focusing on a specific list. Maybe you want to include sample plans for one list (I think the Prosak-list is best for that).

    Also, I think that it's best to lead with one list in the beginning and then discuss other versions in the end. Again, I think Prosak's list is most important (variations like cutting two Preordains don't really need to be discussed specifically), and then definitely the Burning Wish version and maybe one of the old lists with Chant - keeping the idea around seems pretty good to me.
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Greetings all. I'm a new Legacy player (reading and playing proxies for 3 weeks now) and new to ANT.

    I tested w/ a friend last night and I tried 1 Empty the Warrens main (also had AN and Tenrils main) and EtW won me the match in Game 3 as I was able to make 12 Goblins on T2.

    So here's my dilemma: It seems to me that EtW and Tendrils can't really exist in the main together w/ AN still main as it makes it even more risky using AN as chances have increased of killing myself and/or not finding what I need in time.

    Am I correct? Can EtW/Tendrils/AN exist together in the main?

    Should I stick w/ the AN/Tendrils/PiF package main and keep EtW side? Or put AN in the side? If AN is in the board...what match-ups would you bring it in?

    I've been going through Carsten's articles and his recent list moved AN to the side, but, as mentioned here, with the rise of Golgari Charm, is EtW really the right plan for the main?

    I know this can be meta-dependent, but still worth it to ask.

    Excellent work on the new primer bjholmes :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeardTron View Post
    Greetings all. I'm a new Legacy player (reading and playing proxies for 3 weeks now) and new to ANT. I tested w/ a friend last night and I tried 1 Empty the Warrens main (also had AN and Tenrils main) and EtW won me the match in Game 3 as I was able to make 12 Goblins on T2. So here's my dilemma: It seems to me that EtW and Tendrils can't really exist in the main together w/ AN still main as it makes it even more risky using AN as chances have increased of killing myself and/or not finding what I need in time. Am I correct? Can EtW/Tendrils/AN exist together in the main? Should I stick w/ the AN/Tendrils/PiF package main and keep EtW side? Or put AN in the side? If AN is in the board...what match-ups would you bring it in? I've been going through Carsten's articles and his recent list moved AN to the side, but, as mentioned here, with the rise of Golgari Charm, is EtW really the right plan for the main? I know this can be meta-dependent, but still worth it to ask. Excellent work on the new primer bjholmes :)
    Having an extra 4 drop in the main puts too much strain on an already weakened but necessary engine in the deck

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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by BeardTron View Post
    I've been going through Carsten's articles and his recent list moved AN to the side, but, as mentioned here, with the rise of Golgari Charm, is EtW really the right plan for the main?
    There's not really a conflict here as Golgari Charm is almost exclusively a sideboard card. I like having Empty maindeck right now as a lot of decks can't interact with it if it comes early. It's very similar to Ad Nauseam actually, only that it becomes weaker faster; in exchange, it's more resilient (can't be outright countered) and usually requires less resources.
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Whoah, lots of posts happened since last night. Lots of new things to do, lol. Here's my list:

    1.) Is the most recent video I've made quality enough for inclusion in the primer? If not, what needs fixing? If so, would other videos be helpful, such as those against real players?
    2.) I have accepted that SB plans must happen. Therefore, are we all agreed that the example sideboard deck will be the vanilla 16 Cantrip version? The principles which apply to this deck should help players of any build, really. I really need help with this, I have trouble boarding in some less familiar matchups.
    3.) I want to add a helpful links section at the end of the primer. Please gather any quality articles, streams, or whatever for this deck for me to include in this section.

    EDIT: Added new SB section to the end of the Primer. Check it out and give some feedback.
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  19. #39

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I am not really sure 16 cantrip version is best for sideboarding tutorial, as more often than not it just cuts Preordains. I'd use some 14 cantrip + 1 discard + 1 something version.

    It 16 cantrip is fine for showcase build but as said sideboarding with it is easier than with most.

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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I disagree. The primer is directed to new players of the deck, to whom I strongly recommend the 16 cantrip version. It is the most straightforward and "vanilla" form of the deck, so far as I'm aware. Once they are advanced enough to start tweaking their own build to preference, they will be advanced enough to make SB decisions for their own brew.
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