[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Mastikor]

I'm not sure. Decay seems quite dead aside from Leo (Shamans are handled by Seal), and they only run 2... I think it's best to either discard or simply race Leovold. I also won a game with Leo on board, just build 15+ storm and their conterspells (Fluster aside) are useless. I really like EtW, it's another angle of attack, also dodges Leo. They only run like 1 Deluge, and you usually discard them before going off anyway. That is why I like 4 Therapies, they play nicely with EtW. Against slow decks like 4c Therapy + EtW + flasback Therapy is really strong even if it's only like 10-12 goblins. I think speed is the key.

[ScottW]

I'm not sure. Decay seems quite dead aside from Leo (Shamans are handled by Seal), and they only run 2... I think it's best to either discard or simply race Leovold. I also won a game with Leo on board, just build 15+ storm and their conterspells (Fluster aside) are useless. I really like EtW, it's another angle of attack, also dodges Leo. They only run like 1 Deluge, and you usually discard them before going off anyway. That is why I like 4 Therapies, they play nicely with EtW. Against slow decks like 4c Therapy + EtW + flasback Therapy is really strong even if it's only like 10-12 goblins. I think speed is the key.

Thanks for the reply. Don't you want Decay/Push for Leovold against Czech Pile? I think ETW preboard seems not like the best, often they run Toxic Deluges mainboard, which makes it either postboard better or generally not the best if they keep it in.

I don't play Ground Seal but have in the past. Having 2 answers to DRS and also Leo isn't enough. Plus what if the GS gets countered or discarded? If you play GS you are playing Green and should board AD for this MU. I'm not sure where this luxury to build 15+ comes from. I've stormed over a Leovold many times but I'd rather not. Also, you often still need to cantrip.

I've had mixed results with EtW and think they generally need to be 12+ goblins maybe more to be reliable. If not they work in combination w/ToA.

[FlyingDelver]

I think storming way beyond 10 when leo is on board is only good preboard since most likely they won't have Flusterstorm then. Postboard I would not do that, I don't like risking that the opponent draws a fluster of the triggers and just wrecks me. and even 10 cards are crazy, they almost surely will have fluster at this point.

For these reasons I think I like boarding in Decays here.

[Nealdrox]

After watching the Mengucci vids today. I’ll have to jam some testing with 4 Bobs in the board. Seemed good when he needed it.

[FlyingDelver]

Had a good FNM yesterday, went 3-1, only loosing to dragon stompy. This matchup felt really tough, and I guess since I only had 1 Hurkyl's in my SB, I had a disadvantage there. Any suggestions for mulligan decisions? Should I mulligan aggressively for a fast hand? Or is keeping a hand with a bunch of cantrips but discard and bouncers (like CoV/Echoing or Hurkyl's) good enough? Is cutting Artifact mana good here? I think I cut 2 Petal, 2 Cabal Ritual 2 Preordain and DP for 3 Decay, 2 CoV, 1 Echoing and 1 Hurkyl's.

[wonderPreaux]

After watching the Mengucci vids today. I’ll have to jam some testing with 4 Bobs in the board. Seemed good when he needed it.

I wasn't impressed with those videos, it seemed like he often overboarded and/or didn't need them. He also had odd boarding choices like boarding out a Petal when he's bringing the Bobs as opposed to just boarding out 2 Cabal Rits (0 CMC cards that help cast Bob are pretty synergistic). Moreover, boarding them in against D&T or Jeskai is pretty questionable, given that Jeskai could keep Bolts, and you should just be aiming to combo fast against D&T. Siding 13 cards for D&T was pretty ridiculous to see, especially as he sided out 4 Probes, and he put himself in at least one situation where he could have been dead to his own Bobs.

Also, to reiterate earlier posts in this thread, Bob is a really slow, vulnerable way to accrue advantage. You have to wait two turns to turn a "profit" in cards, lose life, and be vulnerable to removal. It excels in the mirror, and some combo matchups, to be sure, but I certainly wouldn't be auto-siding it like he was.

[beardstorm]

Dark Confidants aside, I really like a one-of Night's Whisper in the side in the pure Grixis variants

[Izzio]

Does anyone ever run a misers answer to game 1 "locks" such as Eidolon, Leovold, Thalia, Trinisphere, etc. I'm still somewhat new to the deck and none of the top stormers seem to play them. But I find myself across from one of those in game 1 fairly often thinking well shit, sure would be nice to at least have a one-outer rather than essentially auto lose to them being resolved. Something like a echoing truth or abrade or something.

[fangzie]

Does anyone ever run a misers answer to game 1 "locks" such as Eidolon, Leovold, Thalia, Trinisphere, etc. I'm still somewhat new to the deck and none of the top stormers seem to play them. But I find myself across from one of those in game 1 fairly often thinking well shit, sure would be nice to at least have a one-outer rather than essentially auto lose to them being resolved. Something like a echoing truth or abrade or something.

Only Sanctum Prelate on 4, leyline of sanctity (depending on build) and canonist type effects are hard locks game one (it's possible I've forgotten something, so let me know if I have). Everything else just requires time. Mostly, it's far nicer just being very streamlined, instead of having clunky removal. While top was still legal, there were some trying out 1-2 maindeck decay (tried this, hated it personally). And I've seen occasional lists plaing a single chain of vapor, but largely it tends to be worse, IMO.

Having said that, sloshthedark (42AD on MTGO) I believe is still running 1-2 decays main, in his highly personalised list and when he plays does quite well, so it's definitely valid

[ScottW]

Does anyone ever run a misers answer to game 1 "locks" such as Eidolon, Leovold, Thalia, Trinisphere, etc. I'm still somewhat new to the deck and none of the top stormers seem to play them. But I find myself across from one of those in game 1 fairly often thinking well shit, sure would be nice to at least have a one-outer rather than essentially auto lose to them being resolved. Something like a echoing truth or abrade or something.

Yes, I have played basically 42ADs deck (Sloshstorm) because he's the best storm player. 2 AD MD is not much different than X/discard. Maybe a little less explosive but even more resilient than usual ANT. More SB space too.

I've not played through a Trinishpere but have played through the other cards you mentioned g1 w/o removal. AD in the main is good against DRS to support PiF g1 where it's the strongest. If your OP is playing Trinishpere and CotV g1 you likely aren't going to win with a miser's answer and need to look to the SB.

For reference:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/803640#paper

[ScottW]

Only Sanctum Prelate on 4, leyline of sanctity (depending on build) and canonist type

Beat me to it - I'm slow at typing...

Prelate is in 1 deck @3cmc and who plays Leyline MD except the Leyline deck?

[Sloshthedark]

Yes, I have played basically 42ADs deck (Sloshstorm) because he's the best storm player. 2 AD MD is not much different than X/discard. Maybe a little less explosive but even more resilient than usual ANT.

haha tnx, but I certainly have a different tip for that spot. I don't claim it to be the best list but it's definitely playable, just different trade offs in strenghts which fit my style, but unfortunately I feel like future goes this way, as more annoying g1 creatures are printed.. there is a ton of mileage from acting as a ubg deck, more SB space and the AD itself, Im a bit notorious for this atm but still works in paper.

[fangzie]

Yes, I have played basically 42ADs deck (Sloshstorm) because he's the best storm player.

I think I'd be willing to try this list if given a sideboard guide. Otherwise I would just feel it's a bit too foreign to what i'm used to

[ScottW]

I think I'd be willing to try this list if given a sideboard guide. Otherwise I would just feel it's a bit too foreign to what i'm used to

I have asked Slosh about SB in the past and I don't think I've ever been close so I just take trial and error, which is probably better. I started playing Sloshstorm when it was 2 SDT, GT, 2ToA, 2 PiF, EtW, and then when top was banned I messed around for a bit and then adopted to the AD main (I still play GT). I guess everyone gets their list from some starting point and then might slowly branch out.

[Miscanthus]

Does anyone ever run a misers answer to game 1 "locks" such as Eidolon, Leovold, Thalia, Trinisphere, etc. I'm still somewhat new to the deck and none of the top stormers seem to play them. But I find myself across from one of those in game 1 fairly often thinking well shit, sure would be nice to at least have a one-outer rather than essentially auto lose to them being resolved. Something like a echoing truth or abrade or something.

I have started experimenting a bit with one Collective Brutality in the main in place of one Duress. Results are inconclusive just yet, but it has allowed me to deal with a Deathrite Shaman G1, and has served as a functional Duress on other occasions.

For reference, I am running a two Dark Petition, six discard (including Collective Brutality) main list.

[CabalTherapy]

I have started experimenting a bit with one Collective Brutality in the main in place of one Duress. Results are inconclusive just yet, but it has allowed me to deal with a Deathrite Shaman G1, and has served as a functional Duress on other occasions.

For reference, I am running a two Dark Petition, six discard (including Collective Brutality) main list.

Being able to discard for one mana is crucial.

On another note, I had a great game against one of my favourite opponents yesterday. In game 1, I only see that he is playing Grixis Delver with Stifle and I manage to win through a FoW and a Daze with a PiF loop involving Grim Tutor. Then in the next one he plays Counterbalance on turn two... still having some Counterspells in hand and landing a DRS... well... So, for the deciding game I brought in Decays and extra Tendrils alongside additional Thoughtseizes. On turn two, I see something like: SE, two lands, CB, DRS, BS, Stifle. Quite a hand. I manage to slow down his CB by fetching in his upkeep and drawing out the Stifle. The most interesting part was my last turn though. He had CB and DRS (active) in play and SE, Clique, + unknown card in hand, while we both didn't know the top card of his library. I start things with Petal > resolves, Island tapping for BS, he reveals FoW so BS resolves, I play therapy and he responds with Clique targeting me, I respond with DRit BBB > Crit BBBBBB, he surgicals me and sees IT and PiF, he takes the IT with the Clique giving me a Ponder, I name BS with the CT, he has Daze. Well, now I have only black mana and a LP + 2 GPs in the yard. I decide to Ponder, possibly finding a LED or something else. Luckily the Ponder reveals one of my ToAs and I can kill him cleanly. Definitely a great match overall and it felt cool to play against CB again; even under different circumstances.

[ScottW]

On another note, I had a great game against one of my favourite opponents yesterday.

Maybe he should have targeted himself with SE. Also, +1 for GT and -1 for DP (FOW on top with CB in play). Not that this was the play but...

Glad you and a few others still post here and not just the FB group, which is not my favorite to say the least...

[CabalTherapy]

Maybe he should have targeted himself with SE. Also, +1 for GT and -1 for DP (FOW on top with CB in play). Not that this was the play but...

Glad you and a few others still post here and not just the FB group, which is not my favorite to say the least...

Yeah, we went through all the different possibilities afterwards and SE targeting himself was the other potential out for him but he had some arguments against doing that.
I never played DP in a tournament I think, at least I can't remember; maybe once but all in all I'm sticking to the CTstorm15 set up, which is also the version our other regular ANT player runs.

The FB group is quite crowded now and some people are displaying little understanding of ANT and Legacy in general, so yeah the source is still my go to place to comment.

[Dr_D]

The FB group is quite crowded now and some people are displaying little understanding of ANT and Legacy in general, so yeah the source is still my go to place to comment.

Is this the reason this thread has been less active than it has been in the past? I never really frequent the facebook group, as it requires me to actually be on facebook.

[Izzio]

My friend and I casually test games fairly often and it usually involves throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Long story short, I tried a Sylvan Library in the SB for grindy decks like Pile and other Hymn-type decks. It was absolute gas. Anyone tried it or thought about it?