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Thread: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

  1. #5941

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    How keepable is a durdly hand like: 2 Ponder, Probe, 3 Lands, LED against decks that you want to win fast against, like DnT? On the dark I personally feel to keep it since I can do stuff, but its quite slow and might be troublesome if I face an early Thalia then.

  2. #5942
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I would keep in the blind G1, mulligan if I know the matchup and keep it after sideboarding. Not sure if that's right though.

  3. #5943

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I think it depends on a LOT of things, G1 if you have no way to take thalia out, its a keep if you otp and I would mulligan otd. Because its not just Thalia if you are on the draw, this hand looks like a T3 kill at its best, T2 only if probe+ponder are near to perfect, on T3 if you are on the draw you can be facing the possibility of Thalia, Sanctum Prelate, Multiple Revokers... On the play you can search for that Cabal to hit on their hate and try to go off later. G2 and G3 depends on your hate, if you have enough answers that you think you can fight the long game then it is a keep, if you don't then I would use the same logic as I said on G1.

  4. #5944
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDelver View Post
    How keepable is a durdly hand like: 2 Ponder, Probe, 3 Lands, LED against decks that you want to win fast against, like DnT? On the dark I personally feel to keep it since I can do stuff, but its quite slow and might be troublesome if I face an early Thalia then.
    It would depend if this was after sideboard.
    If you're looking to win fast, no hand with 3 lands is fast. Putting some back with a brainstorm could get you a fast hand, but that's not guaranteed.
    So you have a slower hand that will get you a pretty stacked hand over 2 turns if left alone.
    If you know you're up against D&T and brought in Massacre or Pyroclasm or whatever, then you can dig for those while getting set for a combo.
    If you don't have any of that to find and you're just dead to Teeg or Leo or Thalia+Port, then it's as you said; slow.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  5. #5945

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Went 3/1 again in last nights FNM. My list:

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    3 Duress
    3 Cabal Therapy
    2 Preordain
    4 Infernal Tutor
    1 Ad Nauseam
    1 Past in Flames
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Dark Petition
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Island
    1 Swamp

    Sideboard
    2 Decay
    2 Fluster
    2 Ground Seal
    2 Chain
    2 Dread of Night
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Hurkyl's
    1 Tormods Crypt
    1 Echoing Truth


    Round 1: I lost to UR Delver due to a mistake by me. I won game 1 since my opponent only had 2 Dazes as disruption, which is not enough obvously. Game 2 I made a big mistake in my opinion.

    I started to go off and chained a bunch of rituals building up mana, I knew most of my opponents hand (3 cards I knew of, amongst 1 active Force was under them, and 2 unknown cards) I had enough mana to cast a tutor of my hand and cracked a LED in response, also discarding a Past In Flames. In response to the tutor, my opponent revealed Surgical and extracted my PiF, which then left me with too few Storm counts to just find Tendrils and win. I think, If I had cast the PiF before I casted the tutor, my opponent couldn't quite make use of Surgical, and then I think I would have been able to win that game. I always had the mindset of needing to have the tutor in the GY before PiF, but since I had enough Storm with the rituals if PiF resolved without the tutor, I basically only needed one tutor to find Tendrils. Next time I will surely play around Surgical there. I could have won that match due to this. Last Game I couldn go off in time and died to YP and Delver.

    Sideboarding: I used the advice gaven me on the RUG Delver match and decided to cut Ad Nauseam in this matchup, since the lifeloss is severe in this kinda matchup.

    -2 Preordain
    -1 DP
    -1 Ad Nauseam
    +2 Fluster
    +2 Push

    Round 2: Won 2-0 against UW Stoneblade with Back to Basics main. Game 1 was quite easy, they have soo many dead cards against us, that I feel Game 1 is almost a bye. Game 2 was more tricky, loads of hate coming against us, and my opponent had a Meddling Mage with an Sword of Fire and Ice equipped to it. Meddling Mage was naming Tendrils and I couldn't just bounce it with my Echoing. I needed to win via Tendrils I remember. I had a Push in the GY, which I used to kill a Stoneforge on turn 2 (don't know if that was coirrect, but she searched for Sword and didn't want to face a fast clock right away) and I had Echoing in hand. I started to go off, my opponent only had a surgical in hand, created a bunch of mana, and then cast tutor into PiF. My opponent then responded with Surgical on Push. Basically, I neede to remove Meddling Mage in order to win. So I then again responded with casting Echoing Truth on the Sword. After that all resolved and I could flashback Echoing to also bounce the Mage itself and then win from there. I am quite happy that I found this way of winning through that Mage there.

    Sideboarding: Here I am quite uncertain, how would you sideboard? Do you keep basics due to Back to Basics or just remove the swamp?

    -2 Preordain
    -1 DP
    -1 CR
    -1 LP
    -1 Swamp
    +2 Fluster
    +1 Decay
    +1 Echoing
    +2 Push

    Not sure if I should have boarded the second Decay over Echoing here, but wanted to be able to bounce a Batterskull as well in case of an early clock or whatever. Not sure about that. Advice is appreciated!

    Round 3: Won 2-0 against against Jeskai Stoneblade. Sideboarding was the same as UW Stoneblade, both games my opponent had absolutely nothing, despite the various hate he boarded in. He was also not paying too much attention, since he let all my Brainstorms resolve with an Pyroblast in hand. Got to win easy there.

    Round 4: 2-0 against DnT. Tight games in both of them. Game 1 I faced a turn 2 Thalia and no way to remove it on board. I still managed to chain a bunch of rituals and empty for 14 goblin tokens, but I was quite low on life (12) at that point. My opponent had a flickerwhisp and the thalia and a vial on 2. He attacked with Thalia and Whisp putting me to 7. So, If I then attacked with everything, I would die if my opponent vialed in a 2 attack creature killing me in the backswing. So I attacked with 12 tokens (My opponent also had a Swords to Plowshares I knew of, so I had to hold back 2 tokens, to not die to a Vialed in Serra Avenger). My opponent just bounced thalia with Karakas and vialed her in again to block one token. My opponent went to 9 life. Then, my opponent only attacked with Whips putting my at 4 life, played Stoneforge searching for Sword (had batterskull in hand already) and passed. Then I figured, if I attack with everything, he could Plow his own Whisp and vial in a 2 attack creature, to block 2 tokens and survive the attack, killing me in the backswing. So I again hold back 2 tokens and attacked with 11 tokens. My opponent now needed to do something, since he only had 2 blockers and was at 9 life. He plowed his whisp and blocked 2 tokens to go to 3 life, leaving me with 11 tokens. Then on his turn, I would die if my opponent topdecked a land (had 3 lands in play, needed a fourth to stoneforge in the Sword and equipping it to thalia and killing me). Luckily he did not topdeck a land. He passed and I figured I need to attack with everything, since my opponent would anyway stoneforge in the Sword at the end of turn and killing me next turn. So I attacked with every 11 tokens. My opponent brought in Baterskull and blocked 3 tokens of mine and gaining 4 life, and since he did still take 8 from the remaining tokens, he died there.

    Sideboarding:
    -3 Duress
    -2 Preordain
    -1 DP
    +2 Dread
    +2 Decay
    +2 Push

    Game 2 was also quite interesting. I had turn 1 Dread for a fantastic start, but otherwise pretty slow hand. My opponent had stoneforge searching for Sword of Fire and Ice. I durdled around and searched for some rituals and tutors. I knew from a probe that my opponent had surgical in hand. I got heavy beats from sword and stoneforge, so I needed to go of or at least go for a huge empty to win withing the next 2 turns. I started to chain Dark Ritual into Dark Ritual, 2 Cabals and had 1 LED and cast a tutor, cracking LED and discard a second tutor (I didn't cast the first tutor to find another ritual since my opponent would surgical in response, not sure if that was correct. Would you Tutor, if your opponent had surgical to find another ritual? I feel like he could then surgical the first tutor while a ritual was on the stack (taking my second tutor in hand then). Maybe I could have casted all artifacts first, then ritual into tutor searching for another ritual and then cast the second tutor right away and in response cast the remaining rituals. I guess that would have worked right?) Anyway, I knew I had enough mana to chain tutor into 18 empty tokens, so not quite enough here. But I then knew, if my opponent surgicaled at any point, besides the first tutor, I would insta win since surgical basically gives me 2 storm counts. He did surgical the tutor from preventing me to find my last tutor and then I just found Tendrils and won. Funny thing was, that my opponent would have won if he did not cast surgical at all. Then I had 18 goblins, but my opponent had Mirran Crusader with Sword attached to it, I would die before I could attack the second time with the goblins to win. Funny that sometimes you need to not do anything in order to win.


    Not sure about the badlands, I do have quite a few green sideboard cards. Maybe a Bayou is better here?

  6. #5946
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDelver View Post
    Went 3/1 again in last nights FNM.

    Round 1: I lost to UR Delver
    The UR MU is almost not possible to lose. I guess some lists play Stifle, Wasteland, and YP now (Japanese for example) but they lose their speed in the first game. So overall, if it's the regular Swiftspear aggro list you simply win
    by bringing in Decays. If it's the other one, you have to play like it's Canadian with a little bit more reach.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
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    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
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  7. #5947

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDelver View Post
    How keepable is a durdly hand like: 2 Ponder, Probe, 3 Lands, LED against decks that you want to win fast against, like DnT? On the dark I personally feel to keep it since I can do stuff, but its quite slow and might be troublesome if I face an early Thalia then.
    I'd mull on the draw g1 if it looked like we both knew whats up, keep all the other times
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    .

  8. #5948

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    The UR MU is almost not possible to lose. I guess some lists play Stifle, Wasteland, and YP now (Japanese for example) but they lose their speed in the first game. So overall, if it's the regular Swiftspear aggro list you simply win
    by bringing in Decays. If it's the other one, you have to play like it's Canadian with a little bit more reach.
    How do you play it if its Canadian?

    And do you think my sideboard plan for Stoneblade was correct? Am really unsure about that.

  9. #5949

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I got my Grim tutor!!!!
    For commander....but why no in ANT? Is it better than Dark petition?

  10. #5950

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDelver View Post
    How do you play it if its Canadian?

    And do you think my sideboard plan for Stoneblade was correct? Am really unsure about that.
    Against Canadian you would present your 60 cards again. Fatal Push isn't great vs them and you already have Empty the Warrens main. Matchup is almost 80% for ANT, just don't play into their soft permission because you have time to make your land drops and fetch basics when they are tapped out. It is worth playing out Petals to play around Daze/Pierce early and they can't really beat an Empty for 10 on turns 1-3. They can only really win by nut drawing you or drawing their 1-2 of Grafdigger's Cage when you are setting up for a PiF kill.

    Vs Stoneblade with your sideboard:
    +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Ground Seal, +2 Fatal Push
    -2 Preordain, -1 Cabal Ritual, -1 Empty the Warrens, -1 Dark Petition -1 Ad Nauseam

    You are trying to win the long game here and Ground Seals shut off their Snaps + Surgicals. Abrupt Decay takes care of Back to Basics and also hatebears, Fatal Push kills hatebears and lets you go into turn 10+ where you are comfortable winning through their disruption.

    Preordain is the worst card in the deck postboard usually. You are going to make land drops so you don't need Cabal Ritual. They are a Batterskull deck with counter magic and sweepers so I am not a fan of Empty the Warrens. Lotus Petal is hard to cut because Back to Basics so trim a Dark Petion, that card is worse without Cabal Ritual. I also like cutting Ad Nauseam since the game is going to go long and it is really only good if you naturally draw it since they aren't casting discard. They are so slow you can trim a ton of business spells as you will have time to find your Infernal Tutors.

    I don't like Flusterstorm in the matchup because they win with hatebears and Fluster from your end doesn't really solve that problem. I know some people cut basics vs Blade but I hate that since they either play Wasteland or Back to Basics or Blood Moon and getting cheesed out of a win by a favored matchup sucks. Also Decay > Truth because it can't be countered and they win the game by "protecting the queen" (Canonist).

  11. #5951

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenCid View Post
    I got my Grim tutor!!!!
    For commander....but why no in ANT? Is it better than Dark petition?
    It is a matter of preference. I can play either and play 1 Dark Petition because we are a PiF + Ad Nauseam deck and Dark Petition is better in both of those loops. Grim Tutor is better as a utility card and tutoring for sideboard cards and also when you have an LED heavy hand or are playing vs soft permission. Both are fine and I reccomend trying both. Congrats on the pick up!

  12. #5952

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by CyrusCG View Post
    It is a matter of preference. I can play either and play 1 Dark Petition because we are a PiF + Ad Nauseam deck and Dark Petition is better in both of those loops. Grim Tutor is better as a utility card and tutoring for sideboard cards and also when you have an LED heavy hand or are playing vs soft permission. Both are fine and I reccomend trying both. Congrats on the pick up!
    Thanks for your advice and greetings!
    I took me time to get GT, if it's not ANT it will be Jeleva ;).

  13. #5953

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by CyrusCG View Post
    Against Canadian you would present your 60 cards again. Fatal Push isn't great vs them and you already have Empty the Warrens main. Matchup is almost 80% for ANT, just don't play into their soft permission because you have time to make your land drops and fetch basics when they are tapped out. It is worth playing out Petals to play around Daze/Pierce early and they can't really beat an Empty for 10 on turns 1-3. They can only really win by nut drawing you or drawing their 1-2 of Grafdigger's Cage when you are setting up for a PiF kill.

    Vs Stoneblade with your sideboard:
    +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Ground Seal, +2 Fatal Push
    -2 Preordain, -1 Cabal Ritual, -1 Empty the Warrens, -1 Dark Petition -1 Ad Nauseam

    You are trying to win the long game here and Ground Seals shut off their Snaps + Surgicals. Abrupt Decay takes care of Back to Basics and also hatebears, Fatal Push kills hatebears and lets you go into turn 10+ where you are comfortable winning through their disruption.

    Preordain is the worst card in the deck postboard usually. You are going to make land drops so you don't need Cabal Ritual. They are a Batterskull deck with counter magic and sweepers so I am not a fan of Empty the Warrens. Lotus Petal is hard to cut because Back to Basics so trim a Dark Petion, that card is worse without Cabal Ritual. I also like cutting Ad Nauseam since the game is going to go long and it is really only good if you naturally draw it since they aren't casting discard. They are so slow you can trim a ton of business spells as you will have time to find your Infernal Tutors.

    I don't like Flusterstorm in the matchup because they win with hatebears and Fluster from your end doesn't really solve that problem. I know some people cut basics vs Blade but I hate that since they either play Wasteland or Back to Basics or Blood Moon and getting cheesed out of a win by a favored matchup sucks. Also Decay > Truth because it can't be countered and they win the game by "protecting the queen" (Canonist).
    Thanks for your reply seems really good, gonna do that next time!

    Do you think its better to run Bayou instead of Badlands to have extra green mana for my sideboard cards? Am not sure if 1 Trop is enough for that.

  14. #5954

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenCid View Post
    Thanks for your advice and greetings!
    I took me time to get GT, if it's not ANT it will be Jeleva ;).
    Jeleva Storm is great! I am on the same deck for EDH.

  15. #5955

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDelver View Post
    Thanks for your reply seems really good, gonna do that next time!

    Do you think its better to run Bayou instead of Badlands to have extra green mana for my sideboard cards? Am not sure if 1 Trop is enough for that.
    I run the stock 75 that is on the ANT FB Page and Brandon Osborne (Control4Daze) plays, it is also similar to Rodrigo style builds.

    I prefer running Bayou because I am on 6 Green SB Cards, I think you can get by on Trop because you won't really need Ground Seal or Decay vs Wasteland decks except when Czech plays Wasteland or vs Lands/Eldrazi, and you are only on 4 green cards. I think it is correct to be on a Badlands main if you are playing Empty the Warrens main, but you should switch your blue fetch to Scalding Tarn over Misty Rainforest because it is strictly better (finds Badlands).

    Here is the list I play for reference, all credit goes to Brandon as I am just a filthy netdecker :P
    ANT:

    15 Lands:
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Bayou
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Island
    1 Swamp

    45 Spells:
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Preordain
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
    3 Cabal Therapy
    3 Duress
    4 Infernal Tutor
    1 Dark Petition
    1 Ad Nauseam
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    2 Past in Flames

    SB:
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Ground Seal
    1 Xantid Swarm
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Hurkyl’s Recall
    1 Chain of Vapor
    1 Echoing Truth
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Massacre
    1 Empty the Warrens

  16. #5956
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDelver View Post
    How do you play it if its Canadian?

    And do you think my sideboard plan for Stoneblade was correct? Am really unsure about that.
    I like Flusterstorm against Threshold.

    But generally it's just a matter of handling your ressources (life, lands) against Canadian. Play it safe and careful, it's a dance between
    fetching for duals to slow down your opponent, retaining possible IMS while respecting soft counters and SS.

    I wouldn't bring in bounce against Stoneblade.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  17. #5957
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    The UR MU is almost not possible to lose. I guess some lists play Stifle, Wasteland, and YP now (Japanese for example) but they lose their speed in the first game. So overall, if it's the regular Swiftspear aggro list you simply win by bringing in Decays. If it's the other one, you have to play like it's Canadian with a little bit more reach.
    Says the man who recently won against me 2-0 with UR Delver. But yeah, it wasn't my day and I'd done critical missplays ;)

  18. #5958

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by CyrusCG View Post
    I run the stock 75 that is on the ANT FB Page and Brandon Osborne (Control4Daze) plays, it is also similar to Rodrigo style builds.

    I prefer running Bayou because I am on 6 Green SB Cards, I think you can get by on Trop because you won't really need Ground Seal or Decay vs Wasteland decks except when Czech plays Wasteland or vs Lands/Eldrazi, and you are only on 4 green cards. I think it is correct to be on a Badlands main if you are playing Empty the Warrens main, but you should switch your blue fetch to Scalding Tarn over Misty Rainforest because it is strictly better (finds Badlands).

    Here is the list I play for reference, all credit goes to Brandon as I am just a filthy netdecker :P
    ANT:

    15 Lands:
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Bayou
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Island
    1 Swamp

    45 Spells:
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Preordain
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
    3 Cabal Therapy
    3 Duress
    4 Infernal Tutor
    1 Dark Petition
    1 Ad Nauseam
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    2 Past in Flames

    SB:
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Ground Seal
    1 Xantid Swarm
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Hurkyl’s Recall
    1 Chain of Vapor
    1 Echoing Truth
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Massacre
    1 Empty the Warrens
    Okay, alright I'll see how it goes, thanks! Yeah Scalding is strictly better than Misty, but I don't have them atm, looking to get them asap though.

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    I like Flusterstorm against Threshold.

    But generally it's just a matter of handling your ressources (life, lands) against Canadian. Play it safe and careful, it's a dance between
    fetching for duals to slow down your opponent, retaining possible IMS while respecting soft counters and SS.

    I wouldn't bring in bounce against Stoneblade.
    Fetching for duals? You mean giving them the opportunity to wasteland us so that they have less mana for themselve as well?

    Sry, but what do you mean by IMS and SS?

  19. #5959
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDelver View Post
    Okay, alright I'll see how it goes, thanks! Yeah Scalding is strictly better than Misty, but I don't have them atm, looking to get them asap though.

    Sry, but what do you mean by IMS and SS?
    It seems fine to have a split of misty/tarn/mire. Tarn is not "strictly" better unless you are grixis.

    IMS - initial mana source (lotus petal, etc.)
    SS - Spell Snare

  20. #5960

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    It seems fine to have a split of misty/tarn/mire. Tarn is not "strictly" better unless you are grixis.

    IMS - initial mana source (lotus petal, etc.)
    SS - Spell Snare
    Polluted Delta: Finds every land in the deck.
    Bloodstained Mire: Finds both Bayou and Badlands but not basic Island or Tropical Island.
    Scalding Tarn: Finds every land but basic swamp if you are playing Badlands not Bayou.
    Misty Rainforest: Finds every land but basic swamp if you are playing Bayou not Badlands.

    The reverse is not true. Scalding Tarn can not find Bayou and Misty Rainforest can not find Badlands.
    So depending on the configuration of your land base, one is strictly better.

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