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Thread: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

  1. #81
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Anselm View Post
    City of Traitors gives you mana the turn you go off. I guess Carpet of Flowers does the same if you hold off casting it until you go off, essentially making it just another ritual. I was more thinking about fetching Tropical turn 1 and getting the Carpet Dazed, but I admit that that argument for City of Traitors isn't really valid. I might actually have to try out a Carpet of Flowers there instead. Still, being vulnurable to Stifle is a thing.

    Of all your proposed Chainable problems, I wouldn't want to bounce a single one. Every single one of them kills you after they have resolved anyway, except for Jace, and if they tap out for Jace you should just kill them, not bounce Jace. Blood Moon is horrible against ANT, you can fetch basics and they're dead if they tap out for it most of the time. Thalia is a non-factor once you sideboard in 3-4 Dread of Night and 0-2 Massacre, not to mention the Decays.
    Who holds carpet for the turn they go off? You fire off a Probe or a Therapy and fucking windmill that shit. Calling it "just another ritual" is sort of ridiculous, because 1) it's multiple rituals in any color that only requires you to invest one card upfront, and 2) "Lotus Petal is just another ritual." I just can't imagine using City of Traitors against the Wasteland/Stifle deck instead of a repeatable, unremovable mana source. And if they stifle my Carpet trigger? Awesome, that's one less card I have to Duress out of their hands before I machine-gun them.

    Chalice is good because it's a flexible card, making it less likely to be dead in game 2 when you aren't sure what they're boarding in, or to cover holes in your sideboard for things you were just hoping to not play against or didn't expect. It's fine to acknowledge that there's a better solution to a specific problem, but we only get 15 sideboard slots and I'd rather punch myself to death than play a board with 4 Dread of Night and 2 Massacre.

  2. #82

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Deviruchi View Post
    I was looking at modo results when I saw larkblue decklist (4-0 and 3-1) which has 2 Cavern of Souls with 2 Notion Thief + 4 Dark Confidant in the SB. He has to have nice blowout stories with these Thieves already. Those techs...
    I can't say why would be Cavern or Silence splash good, but I have had 2 Thieves ever since it's release in SB and do not plan to drop them soon... it's much better in combo matchups than Confidant and has decent surprise factor vs control, realistically you're the only deck that can catch T2 BS efficiently

  3. #83

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark View Post
    I can't say why would be Cavern or Silence splash good, but I have had 2 Thieves ever since it's release in SB and do not plan to drop them soon... it's much better in combo matchups than Confidant and has decent surprise factor vs control, realistically you're the only deck that can catch T2 BS efficiently
    Notion thief is actually quite cool. If I wouldn't play a BW version I would try them out in the SB.
    Quote Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac View Post
    I've goldfished with Doomsday decks about twenty times and I still haven't won a game yet.

  4. #84

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Okay, you guys have persuaded me to try out Carpet of Flowers in place of City of Traitors a bit.

    Still don't like Chain of Vapor, though. And 3 Dread of Night/2 Massacre is what you want (or 4 Dread/0 Massacre, just for this matchup) against DnT, the massacres you need against RUW Delver too.

    Notion Thief sounds intriguing, but a bit cute.

  5. #85

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Anselm View Post
    Okay, you guys have persuaded me to try out Carpet of Flowers in place of City of Traitors a bit.

    Still don't like Chain of Vapor, though. And 3 Dread of Night/2 Massacre is what you want (or 4 Dread/0 Massacre, just for this matchup) against DnT, the massacres you need against RUW Delver too.

    Notion Thief sounds intriguing, but a bit cute.
    I won't play any of it, I have no time/psychical power to struggle against the main "schools of thought" there... the Carpet is low impact piercable exposure to mana problems that can be played around by tempo players, how could THAT replace Cabal Ritual is a mystery to me... City of traitors, yeah when you see that in your opener/BS looking for fetchland, you know...

    CoV is a weaker card that it used to be, sure... Why do you all shit your pants from D&T?, I haven't lost a match to D&T ever in last 2 years with no dedicated hate, 5 so straightforward cards is a bit of paranoid... I dislike DoN, multiples or lacking multiples is awful and you know which comes when...

  6. #86
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark View Post
    I won't play any of it, I have no time/psychical power to struggle against the main "schools of thought" there... the Carpet is low impact piercable exposure to mana problems that can be played around by tempo players, how could THAT replace Cabal Ritual is a mystery to me... City of traitors, yeah when you see that in your opener/BS looking for fetchland, you know...

    CoV is a weaker card that it used to be, sure... Why do you all shit your pants from D&T?, I haven't lost a match to D&T ever in last 2 years with no dedicated hate, 5 so straightforward cards is a bit of paranoid... I dislike DoN, multiples or lacking multiples is awful and you know which comes when...
    People in our lgs that play D+t quite suck. Except for Vojta, who built the deck few weeks ago, I can't remember anyone who's more-than-average player. Also, with the price of Karakas, it wasn't very popular deck until recently, so I guess you've met most of those D+T decks in last few months.
    I won't give you bad advices and I think DoN is narrow, but look the average Thursday's meta: Thalia all across the place, and then loads of RUG, BUG, GRU, BURG, UGB and BGU. That and Junk. Part of the reason why I thrown away the deck was that every second pairings I stared at some HateBearEverywhere.dec, pondering into oblivion looking for some removal.

  7. #87

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    People in our lgs that play D+t quite suck. Except for Vojta, who built the deck few weeks ago, I can't remember anyone who's more-than-average player.
    Well, playing D&T vs Storm should be pretty straightforward even for inexperienced players: land Mom/Vial on turn 1, land hatebears on turn 2-3 (Canonist --> Thalia --> Revoker), land Mystic, fetch Batterskull, win.

    It shouldn't be a complex matchup for the D&T player, even the sideboard options are pretty easy.

    I'm not saying it's favorable (well, it is), just that's not complicated at all.

  8. #88

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I would never replace a ritual with Carpet of Flowers or City of Traitors; I would replace a business spell, probably.

    The thing about City of Traitors is that against RUG, I usually find myself going off the turn I run out of lands to play, and if you then have a City in hand, you've effectively went +2 uncounterable mana. That is my theory, nothing else.

  9. #89

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by anakyn View Post
    Well, playing D&T vs Storm should be pretty straightforward even for inexperienced players: land Mom/Vial on turn 1, land hatebears on turn 2-3 (Canonist --> Thalia --> Revoker), land Mystic, fetch Batterskull, win.

    It shouldn't be a complex matchup for the D&T player, even the sideboard options are pretty easy.

    I'm not saying it's favorable (well, it is), just that's not complicated at all.
    It's certainly not difficult from a D&T perspective. From our point..it's a totally different story (unless you play DoN ofc )
    Quote Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac View Post
    I've goldfished with Doomsday decks about twenty times and I still haven't won a game yet.

  10. #90

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    People in our lgs that play D+t quite suck. Except for Vojta, who built the deck few weeks ago, I can't remember anyone who's more-than-average player. Also, with the price of Karakas, it wasn't very popular deck until recently, so I guess you've met most of those D+T decks in last few months.
    I won't give you bad advices and I think DoN is narrow, but look the average Thursday's meta: Thalia all across the place, and then loads of RUG, BUG, GRU, BURG, UGB and BGU. That and Junk. Part of the reason why I thrown away the deck was that every second pairings I stared at some HateBearEverywhere.dec, pondering into oblivion looking for some removal.
    maybe, everyone and his retarded redneck cousin knows what I'm on and that's most important - so mulligan into hatebear and deploy them accordingly... I admit D&T might be demanding in creature based matchups - mana management, combat math, tricks and such, ANT - no rocket science here... I think it's because I have more removal and no ph33R :)

    tested them, they are subpar or overkill, Cannonist is worse problem than Thalia DoN doesn't solve and DoN is miserable strategy vs. U decks+hatebears

  11. #91
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark View Post
    maybe, everyone and his retarded redneck cousin knows what I'm on and that's most important - so mulligan into hatebear and deploy them accordingly... I admit D&T might be demanding in creature based matchups - mana management, combat math, tricks and such, ANT - no rocket science here... I think it's because I have more removal and no ph33R :)

    tested them, they are subpar or overkill, Cannonist is worse problem than Thalia DoN doesn't solve and DoN is miserable strategy vs. U decks+hatebears
    Yep, you're rgiht, against ANT the only decission they may mismanage is to keep/mull uncertain hands and then of course some misplays or bad sb.

  12. #92
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Just proxied and sleeved up ANT, D&T, and Deathblade to introduce my LGS to Legacy. It's nice to finally play this deck IRL for once. Also, geez, tutors and fetches are a pain. I guess Cockatrice was good for something after all.

    In other news, I have some time tomorrow to work on the primer. Number one priority right now is to complete the SB section and to tweak the MU section to reflect the changes other decks have been making lately, particularly to their SB plans.

  13. #93

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I have got a noob-question:
    Why are a lot ANT-Decks packing scalding tarn and misty rainforest even if they don't run a single bayou or badlands (e.g. Avery Williams-List)? Are they trying to bluff, they COULD go for these cards or for basics?
    I ask this, because i am coming from Esper Stoneblade having included flooded strand as a substitution, because i haven't got enough scalding tarn/ misty rainforest. I think I might even benefit from this, because I am known to play esper in my LGS und a flooded strand->island->ponder wouldn't raise any suspicions that I switched to the dark side .

  14. #94
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    assuming you dont run bayou/badlands every blue fetch is acceptable. As long as your fetch can grab everything beside the basic swamp it is fine.
    For example: my current manabase
    Lands (14)
    4 polluted delta
    4 scalding tarn
    2 underground sea
    1 volcanic island
    2 island
    1 swmap

    this could easily become
    Lands (14)
    4 polluted delta
    1 scalding tarn
    1 misty rainforest
    2 flooded strand
    2 island
    1 swamp

    Notice how every land can still fetch everything, except the basic swamp wich is why we run 4 polluted delta's.
    The reason all of these fetches are blue is because we need islands to cast cantrips. You only need one black mana source to cast your rituals, wich will give you enough black mana.

  15. #95

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    If you have 3 DON in the sideboard, the Death and Taxes matchup should be very favorable. G1 is kinda a crapshoot (depends a lot on whether both players know what the other is playing and who is on the play -- if we know what they're playing, we can mull to therapy and/or fast hands, if they know what we're playing, they mull to Thalia) - if they land a T2 Thalia on the play, we're not winning - but if we have time to therapy Thalia, we'll usually win (Revoker is a little annoying, but they don't generally have a fast enough clock to make it a major problem, and usually they don't run Mindcensor main). G2 and 3 should be extremely favorable with 3 DON, 5 creature kill, and Karakas, though - you should have plenty of time to dig for DON, and their win % is extremely low if we resolve one.

  16. #96

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by fetzonk View Post
    I have got a noob-question:
    Why are a lot ANT-Decks packing scalding tarn and misty rainforest even if they don't run a single bayou or badlands (e.g. Avery Williams-List)? Are they trying to bluff, they COULD go for these cards or for basics?
    I ask this, because i am coming from Esper Stoneblade having included flooded strand as a substitution, because i haven't got enough scalding tarn/ misty rainforest. I think I might even benefit from this, because I am known to play esper in my LGS und a flooded strand->island->ponder wouldn't raise any suspicions that I switched to the dark side .
    To grab islands or blue duals.

  17. #97
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Polluted Delta fetches everything. Scalding Tarn is the only other fetch that grabs blue duals plus Badlands. Bayou and/or Misty Rainforest are inferior, but if you don't run Badlands then it doesn't matter which blue fetch you run.

  18. #98

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Hi everyone!
    First of all, I would like to say thank you for the new ANT primer!
    It really looked like a refresh was needed!
    Having that said, let's talk about the sideboarding with this deck!
    I think that managing the main build, and piloting it decently is not an impossible goal to achieve, even for a beginner of the deck!
    On the other hand, the correct sideboarding plan is essential to be successful with this amazing archetype!
    Here is my list:



    ANT 3.0 2013

    LANDS 15
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island

    SPELLS 45
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Duress
    3 Cabal Therapy
    2 Preordain
    1 Lim-Dul's Vault
    1 Ad Nauseam
    1 Past in Flames
    1 Tendrils of Agony

    SIDEBOARD
    3 Dread of Night
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Chain of Vapor
    3 Carpet of Flowers
    3 Xantid Swarm

    Just a couple of words about the sideboard:

    3 Dread of Night: I would never run less, D&T is invincible without these! Still considering the option of playing 4!!

    3 Chain of Vapor: also needed vs death and taxes! The other use is against show and tell based decks, basically to bounce Leyline or random stuff

    3 Abrupt Decay: let's say miracle...then something else, and you will see looking at the ins and outs below

    3 Carpet of Flowers: vs all the tempo decks

    3 Xantid Swarm: basically vs S&T and/or decks with counters but no red



    Here we go with the boarding planes!


    • VS ANT 0

    No sideboard


    •VS BANT NEMESIS 5
    -2 Gitaxian Probe
    -1 Duress
    -1 Cabal Ritual
    -1 Preordain

    +3 Abrupt Decay
    +2 Xantid Swarm


    •VS BELCHER 2
    -2 Preordain

    +2 Chain of Vapor


    •VS BUG DELVER 3
    -2 Gitaxian Probe
    -1 Lim-Dul's Vault

    +3 Carpet of Flowers


    • VS BURN 2
    -2 Gitaxian Probe

    +2 Chain of Vapor


    • CANADIAN 3
    -2 Gitaxian Probe
    -1 Lim-Dul's Vault

    +3 Carpet of Flowers


    • VS DEATH AND TAXES 6
    -4 Duress
    -2 Cabal Therapy

    +3 Dread of Night
    +3 Chain of Vapor


    • VS DEATHBLADE 5
    -2 Gitaxian Probe
    -1 Duress
    -1 Cabal Ritual
    -1 Preordain

    +3 Abrupt Decay
    +2 Xantid Swarm


    • VS DREDGE 0

    No Sideboard


    • VS ELVES 0

    No Sideboard


    •VS ESPER STONEBLADE 5
    -2 Gitaxian Probe
    -1 Duress
    -1 Cabal Ritual
    -1 Preordain

    +3 Abrupt Decay
    +2 Xantid Swarm


    • VS GOBLINS 0

    No Sideboard


    • VS JUND 0

    No sideboard
    😱 Catene di Mefistofele (Chain of V)
    😱 Mindbreak Trap


    • VS MAVERIK 5
    -4 Duress
    -1 Cabal Therapy

    +3 Dread of Night
    +2 Chain of Vapor


    • VS MERFOLKS 0

    No Sideboard


    • VS MIRACLE 5
    -2 Gitaxian Probe
    -1 Duress
    -1 Cabal Ritual
    -1 Preordain

    +3 Abrupt Decay
    +2 Xantid Swarm


    • VS OMITELL 5
    -3 Cabal Therapy
    -3 Duress

    +3 Chain of Vapor
    +3 Xantid Swarm


    •VS PAINTER 0

    No Sideboard


    •PATRIOT 6
    -2 Gitaxian Proble
    -2 Preordain
    -1 Cabal Ritual
    -1 Lim-Dul's Vault


    +3 Carpet of Flowers
    +3 Abrupt Decay

    • VS REANIMATOR 2
    -1 Lim-Dul's Vault
    -1 Preordain

    +2 Chain of Vapor


    • VS ROBIN <---------------------------
    ?????


    • VS SHARDLESS BUG 0

    No Sideboard


    • VS SNEAK & SHOW 5
    -3 Cabal Therapy
    -2 Duress

    +3 Chain of Vapor
    +3 Xantid Swarm


    • VS TES 0

    No Sideboard


    • VS UR PYROMANCER-NEMESIS
    -1 Preordain
    -1 Gitaxian Probe
    -1 Lim-Dul's Vault

    +3 Carpet of Flowers

    •UW STONEBLADE 5
    -2 Gitaxian Probe
    -1 Duress
    -1 Cabal Ritual
    -1 Preordain

    +3 Abrupt Decay
    +2 Xantid Swarm


    If there is something you don't understand or of you have other ideas, please feel free to point that out!
    I do not pretend to be right, and I'm looking forward to hear some good players' opinion!
    Holaaaaaaaaa
    Belcer Player: Do you play Force of Will??
    Opponent: Yeah
    Belcher Player: GG

  19. #99
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    Machahiko's Avatar
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Few pages back there was discussion about this after I told my plans and after that I think that the discussion after that was really helpful. Now I would almost never ever side gitaxian probe out due to what Lemnear instructed.

  20. #100

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Hi,

    This might sound a little stupid, but why do you board in Chain of Vapor instead of Abrupt decay against Death & Taxes?

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