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Thread: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

  1. #5901
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Sincerely wishing Crow Storm were black bordered.
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  2. #5902
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Yes! I think the card is not so op that could not be in a regular set.

  3. #5903

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Just a simple question, i saw some of you guys playing a Karakas in sb, and i'd like to know vs. which matchup do you board that in, especially if you board that in vs. BR reanimator given that imho we still want to board in at least another bounce spell because Chancellor of the Annex is not legendary, and is Karakas considered a removal for Leovold, too?, is that boardable vs. Loam even if they play wasteland?

  4. #5904
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    To the people that side 1 Massacre: have you considered siding Pyroclasm instead? It's weaker vs D&T but has wider applications across the field.

  5. #5905
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    To play Pyroclasm you have to run 2 red lands. Because I think you want it against a bunch of wasteland decks. or not?

  6. #5906
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    The Wasteland argument makes sense, thanks.

  7. #5907
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by boneclub24 View Post
    To the people that side 1 Massacre: have you considered siding Pyroclasm instead? It's weaker vs D&T but has wider applications across the field.
    I liked it against Grixis Delver but since Fatal Push has been printed I haven't been playing this card at all. Cc1 on-colour spot removal, which has even wider application (hitting Leovold/TKS for example).
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    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
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  8. #5908
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I’m pretty disappointed to see AnT non-existent at the SCG open and the Classic.
    Currently Running:

    Legacy - AnT
    Modern - Rock

  9. #5909

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I made a little update to my sideboard from MLL top8:

    4 Polluted
    4 Misty
    2 U.Sea
    1 Volc
    2 Island
    1 Swamp

    4 LED
    4 Petal
    4 DR
    4 CR

    4 Duress
    3 CT

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    4 Probe

    4 IT
    1 PiF
    1 ToA
    1 AdN
    ------

    1 Tropical
    3 Ground Seal
    3 Hurlyls
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Push
    2 Volley
    2 S.Extraction

    My maindeck is unchanged, basically is Scherer manabase but the seven discards plus four preordain drastically increase consistency. The goal of this mainboard is to safetly cast multiple cantrips per turn to set up the winning hand and reach thresold as fast as possible, even under DRS.
    Ad Nauseam is so strong here, very low average CC.

    I think Ground Seal is the only green card that can't be replaced by blue/red/black cards. Its effect is unique.
    I play three of them right now because I think its the perfect number. I absolutely want to see it in the match ups where I board it in and I WANT it to resolve, so with the huge amount of discards and counters, two are not enough.
    Abrupt Decay is a very strong card, but I don't feel it as mandatory.
    Xantid is an horrible card right now. Only useful in two matchups and it needs at least two slots to be effective.

    1 PiF and 2 Volley as the only red cards in the deck, making it basically an UB Storm. Cutting Badlands feel so good.
    No EtW. I think its a really bad card in ANT, the only decent matchup for it is Eldrazi, and even there its not autowin.
    Keeping it only for prevent to be extracted out of the game post board doesn't make sense to me. I don't want to sacrifice a precious slot for a very rare scenario.
    No specific hate for D&T. I don't think we need them, spot removals are enough.
    Three Hurkyls is the correct number because I don't play any other bounces and I really want to see them under a Chalice at 1 that prevents cantrips.

    I tried to think accurately to every card and its reasoning to be included in the deck, trying to be super versatile, keeping AdN as strong as possible and including green while keeping a rock solid manabase. The result is this "quadlazer" deck list that is giving me a lot of positive feelings.

  10. #5910
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    Abrupt Decay is a very strong card, but I don't feel it as mandatory.
    Apart from lock pieces such as Chalice and Spheres, it deals with Leovold, DRS, FoodChain, hate bears, and other random problematic permanents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    Xantid is an horrible card right now. Only useful in two matchups and it needs at least two slots to be effective.
    I count more than 2: SneakShow/Omnitell, Canadian, UB Reanimator, Miracles, Infect, and other random match ups like High Tide. I also tend to disagree that one needs more than one because
    it depends on your sideboarding plans in general. Playing one basicallys means that you have this option in your deck but it is not that necessary for the game plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    Cutting Badlands feel so good.
    I am sure it depends on play styles but I really like fetching for Badlands to have more black sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    No EtW. I think its a really bad card in ANT, the only decent matchup for it is Eldrazi, and even there its not autowin.
    [Eldrazi/Stompy] + Death and Taxes, Delver decks (maybe not UR), Loam/Maverick/Junk, UW Blade/Miracles (even though I am not a fan of it here), and other fringe decks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  11. #5911

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Decay is pretty bad against spheres, you don't want to play 4 colours in those matchup, sitting on double Island plus swamp is way more powerful. Rending Volley and Push are good enough versus all the hatebears. There are situations where you want to deal with multiple hatebear in the same turn and thats impossible with Decay. About Xantid, I counted Sneak/Omnitell and Miracles, others are pretty underplayed, 1 of it is too much random for a card that I want to play relatively early game. I don't see how 1 EtW increase the win% against those decks. EtW is basically a turn 1 play, every turn after the first one drastically decrease the chances to win. Its only really good in your opening hand with a lot of rituals/free spells. Sorry for the wall of text but this stupid phone doenst let me to male space within lines.

  12. #5912
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    Decay is pretty bad against spheres, you don't want to play 4 colours in those matchup, sitting on double Island plus swamp is way more powerful. Rending Volley and Push are good enough versus all the hatebears. There are situations where you want to deal with multiple hatebear in the same turn and thats impossible with Decay. About Xantid, I counted Sneak/Omnitell and Miracles, others are pretty underplayed, 1 of it is too much random for a card that I want to play relatively early game. I don't see how 1 EtW increase the win% against those decks. EtW is basically a turn 1 play, every turn after the first one drastically decrease the chances to win. Its only really good in your opening hand with a lot of rituals/free spells. Sorry for the wall of text but this stupid phone doenst let me to male space within lines.
    Decay has been one of the best cards to battle tax/lock pieces for years. Certainly, it's not that easy to cast it but it destroys them instead of bouncing. Since it has wider application than H.Recall but is definitely weaker against artifacts in general.

    I would never play 2 Island in this deck so I can't really comment on that.

    Decay is not the best against hate bears (I use Push) but it's an option and I like it against Loam decks where you can hit all their stuff with Decay.

    Regarding Xantid Swarm, I wrote the argument in my previous comment.

    Not sure what you mean with your EtW analysis but you can search for it with Infernal Tutor, holding priority and cracking LED to add additional red mana. That way you don't have to have it in your hand but just a copy in your deck. (1 mana less than AdN and easier than Pif-loop in the first turns with limited resources)
    WantToPonder
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    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  13. #5913

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    About EtW what I mean is that most of the times its not a good card to have, with 1 more mana I win taking AdN, ANT is not good as TES at throwing fast goblins and I don't really like it when a lot of decks have sweapers, even maindeck. It also makes my AdN postboard worse. EtW is really good if you draw it naturally without going all-in, but for doing that you need more than one copy.

  14. #5914
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Jax,
    What is your reasoning for playing only 1 PiF and 3 GS in SB? I played GS a while back and never wanted to side out any PiF g2-3 when siding in GS because of the obvious synergy. Also, you should always keep the 4 CR in this case. I'm curious what you and others have to say about this (if other players keep 2Pif in g2-3 if they side in GS).

    I saw Jamie post a list with 1 in the SB and I think this or 3 seem best, not 2.

    Also, I'm curious why people gravitate to strong but narrow answers like Hurkyl Recall rather than Echoing Truth, which is much more broad. This is how I feel about AD which an extremely broad answer to permanent disruption.

  15. #5915
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    About EtW what I mean is that most of the times its not a good card to have, with 1 more mana I win taking AdN, ANT is not good as TES at throwing fast goblins and I don't really like it when a lot of decks have sweapers, even maindeck. It also makes my AdN postboard worse. EtW is really good if you draw it naturally without going all-in, but for doing that you need more than one copy.
    The first mistake is to worry about your Ad Nauseam flips; especially post board in match ups, where Empty is a good choice.
    I am surprised that you argue against a line of play that has been part of playing storm for a long time. You might want to read some older articles, for example Carsten Kötter's SCG storm guides, and familiarise yourself with the Goblin
    strategy. What makes EtW (and keep in mind the 1off Tendrils in the main), both main and SB, good is that you only have to play 1 and build your deck around the combo.

    All in all, it's totally fine and somehow necessary that people have different opinions on a topic.
    WantToPonder
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    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  16. #5916

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Basically what I want from GS is, in order of importance:

    A) Stop Snapcaster Mage.
    B) Stop Surgical Extractions
    C) Make opponet discards less painful
    D) Stop Deathrite Shaman

    Its synergy with PiF is really good but its still achieved with only 1 PiF in the deck while I keep the average CC low for AdN. Also the real reason of why im playing three GS right now is because I REALLY want to resolve it, it can be discarded, sometimes I don't see it with only two of them, expecially because I board out preordains.
    Versus 4CC I do -1 Island -4 Preordain -1 Petal / +1 Tropical +3 GS +2 Volley. Slighty worse AdN but the main plan is to grind them and win via PiF loop, so 3 GS are mandatory IMO.
    Game 1 is super favourable with my mainboard, so most of the times you only need to drop one GS in g2-g3 to take the victory.

  17. #5917

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    The first mistake is to worry about your Ad Nauseam flips; especially post board in match ups, where Empty is a good choice.
    I am surprised that you argue against a line of play that has been part of playing storm for a long time. You might want to read some older articles, for example Carsten Kötter's SCG storm guides, and familiarise yourself with the Goblin
    strategy. What makes EtW (and keep in mind the 1off Tendrils in the main), both main and SB, good is that you only have to play 1 and build your deck around the combo.

    All in all, it's totally fine and somehow necessary that people have different opinions on a topic.
    Actually the meta changed a lot from the times when those articles has been written. Nowdays most Control decks play 1-2 sweaper maindeck and 1-2 postboard for True Name Nemesis and EtW is a VERY predictable win con and not so effective because doesnt win instantly. It also use a lot of resources to be good. Sometimes you can catch someome off guard and win, but most good players are aware of it and loosing a game to a single sweaper is the worst feeling ever.
    If someone really want to play EtW, than play it mainboard and cut AdN, it doesnt makes sense to me, but its still better than dedicate a slot to it.

  18. #5918

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I have been running AdN-less list with EtW main for long time (since Dark Petition) and have loved it. Yes, people run sweepers, but they have very short time to find them. We also run discard. And the sinergy with Therapy is nice. Even if they do find their sweeper, you can still rebuild and win with Tendrils later. And if they go heavy on sweepers that's good because these cards are dead against our no.1 plan (Pif and Tendrils). Of course EtW gets weaker later in the game, but so does AdN as your life total is drained. EtW is meant for fast kills and personaly I have found it both faster and more reliable than AdN when you are short on mana. Later we of course opt for PiF or Tutor chain.

    Another important reason to run EtW is that it doesn's target (which is relevant against Leo and random leylines). Also having a second win con is always nice so you don't have to scoop if you Tendrils gets exiled somehow.

  19. #5919

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikor View Post
    I have been running AdN-less list with EtW main for long time (since Dark Petition) and have loved it. Yes, people run sweepers, but they have very short time to find them...Of course EtW gets weaker later in the game, but so does AdN as your life total is drained
    These two exactly. 10-14 goblins doesn't leave your opponent with many chances to find an out. This isn't great in every matchup obviously, otherwise empty would live in my mainboard, but there's enough where it's brutally effective that it justifies its position. There's also some matchups where you'll have the choice of something like ad nauseam with no mana floating, or a decent sized empty where empty will be a deterministic kill (DnT is an example of this when done early)

  20. #5920
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    A few quick questions for people running maindeck Empty:

    —What's your landbase look like? I've been toying with a return to straight Grixis with a maindeck Empty.
    —Do you run Empty the Warrens instead of Ad Nauseam, or do you run the two together?

    I've been on a hiatus from Storming lately, which has given me a chance to step back a bit and reexamine a lot of the fundamentals. I'd resigned myself to keeping Empty in the 'board for a long time, primarily because it felt like a card that usually didn't need to be there (usually, Ad Nauseam would work too, or suddenly Storm'd be at 9) but the reason I took a break from Storm was that I felt there were three problems that were beginning to converge: opponents' knowledge of what I play, opponents' building unbeatable hands, and a generally closing window for the combo against faster lockouts. I'm not sure whether Empty ameliorates the first two problems, but being able to dump our hand quickly without relying on blind "draws" seems great for fighting fast decks.
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