Hi all,
Wanted to throw a couple card ideas out there for our new meta. I realize most ppl are just tossing in preordain/discard/ extra lands but Wanted to consider some off the wall stuff.
I play a wierd build ( no ad naus or empty mb, 2x dp/pif, 1 preordain, 1 spellseeker, 4x therapy, green sb, Leyline of the void sb)
Intuition- gets better without drs. Insane with new pif positioning. Would replace a tutor
Ill gotten gains - also gets better with drs gone. Love the interaction with Leyline post sb. Helps in the permanent hate matchups as it抯 a faster pif
Surgical extraction - I really want to test 2x mb. It抯 wierd and a lot of ppl have personal feelings about this card but hear me out.
-it抯 free. Phyrexian mana is busted in half.
- you get more information than probe.
- incidental hate on our worst matchups
- interaction with discard. A lot of decks have 2-4 cards that you care about and many that you don抰. Early discard into surgical can really hamper plans to hold multiple pieces of counter magic. It抯 also functions as a free discard spell if they抳e already cast a piece of interaction that they have in hand. Great synergy with therapy.
Has anyone tested these cards? I抎 be interested in first hand experience
Thanks!
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I see the argument for this, but why would we start running it only now? DRS still wasn't capable of handling everything Intuition would put in the 'yard, so what makes Intuition better than what we're already using? (Wouldn't Intuition have been a theoretical answer to Deathrite for that same reason?) Also worth pointing out that it requires blue mana. It might not bother you, but one reason I'm not sure I want Empty in the main is that I don't want to "split my colors" until as late in my combo as possible. (For the record, I am currently testing Empty in the maindeck.)
I don't think DRS was the reason this fell from favor, but maybe I'm wrong. The major problem is that it lets our opponents reload on Forces. Were I to run this, it'd be in the sideboard. It is black, though, and getting back LEDs is pretty cool.
I have to confess that though you're largely right about everything you said about this one, I have never met with success using this card in a maindeck. I tried it in budget Pox a few years back, and never again. It's far too situational, it almost requires being piggy-backed onto other disruption, and from my experience it's (surprisingly) almost never a value play. It looks great because it's a potential 4-for-1 for free, but it doesn't do anything against resolved threats, and if you're not fighting Reanimator/Dredge/etc. it's a dead card if a) you don't have opening discards, or b) your opponent doesn't lead with a fetch. This is the card I'd caution against using in the maindeck most strongly; it just doesn't work as well as it ought to.
All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
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Intuition actually sounds extremely awesome with the PiF engine, but it does make an opponent's postboard Surgical's a lot stronger. Still though, it seems like a fantastic tutor for the deck. I would say that it is worth testing, at the very least.
Please forgive my ignorance if this card has been brought up before (I haven't yet had the time to read through the whole thread), but what about Spy network as a 2 of or so replacement for probe?
Granted, I get that the mana cost and lack of cantripping does suck a good bit, but getting the heads up on the opponent's game plan, their next draw, and getting a four card deep setup for your next draw in one shot has something of an allure to it.
Leaving you down a card is far more significant than the information it gives you. Probe was valuable as it was both free and didn't leave you down a card.
Discard is just straight up better as it does a better job at progressing your gameplan while revealing info
Pretty sure the point of IGG is to bring it in in non-blue matchups to gain a turn of speed. For those interested, it's probably worth trying against Elves, lands and DnT, and less so against stompy decks who are more likely to have leyline in their sideboard
I agree, but using it as an end of turn instant opens up a lot of doors to card selection on your draw + information. While having an additional card is much better, I can see the value in getting to rearrange your top four EOT and drawing better quality the turn you're about to combo off or even if you're forced to brainstorm lock yourself. I don't know, maybe I'm just looking for anything other than a 3rd or 4th preordain because I hate that card.
Thank you for your helpful answer fangzie!
After a lot of testing I can agree with you in all points. Reanimator matchup is bad as it ever was... No wonder . But like you said SnS is better now, because of more discard, which is one of the most effective angles to attack this deck. Your also right about that speed isn`t all for ANT, but consistency is it and I feel it does it good as ever. The lack of consistency was the reason why I switched from TES to ANT and so I stay with ANT.
The only thing I missed in ANT were the 8 cheap Tutor of TES. So I gave Grim Tutor a chance and it worked out great for me.
After the ban of DRS I expected a hype for Miracles, but no more Miracles than before in my local meta, so I can stay with the Grixis shell...
Hey all. Been testing how feasible Empty main deck is with no probes. So far I抦 ok with this list but wil need some more testing done. 4-1抎 this first league https://youtu.be/i26M1evxfAc
You can follow me on Twitter at: www.twitter.com/MartinFSNielsen
If you want that effect, just run Peek.
All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
PM me if you want to contribute!
I still like the empty too. Couple remarks: r4, g2 (BR) I'd consider playing out the LP / ToA and going for the PiF line a following turn. -4 life and loss of only 1 storm - what do you think? r5, g3 (or 2?) you had the win or AdN after at least double CR reveal via PiF. Thanks for sharing the videos.
I went 6-3 (29/227) at MKM Series Prague yesterday. Could have been a better result but I had some tough match ups and took many mulligans.
After going 3-1 at the Prague local store and 3-1 in a trial on Saturday I felt comfortable with this list:
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
3 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
2 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Flusterstorm
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Dread of Night
Rd1 Bye
Rd2 2:0 Death and Taxes: g1 AdN into Pif loop against Thalia, g2 t2 AdN
Rd3 2:1 Tezzerator: g1 dead to animated lock pieces, g2 Pif loop, g3 natural Toa against LotV
Rd4 1:2 BR Reanimator: g1 dead to t2 combo, g2 Karakas ctrl.dec into AdN, g3 dead to t1 combo
Rd5 2:1 OmniSneak: g1 dead t1 to SnT into Omni into Grisel+Emrakul, g2 grindy match and AdN win, g3 Xantid into t2 win
Rd6 1:2 BR Reanimator: g1 dead to t2 combo, g2 grindy Toa ctrl with Pif win, g3 dead to t1 Sire
Rd7 2:0 TurboDepths: g1 pif paf, g2 AdN into pif paf
Rd8 2:0 Canadian: g1 bye, g2 lucky piffed ponder for Toa
Rd9 1:2 Steel Stompy: g1 pif loop t3, g2 locked and void, g3 AdN fizzle against LotV
WantToPonder
former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
Team MTG Berlin
The Dragonstorm
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm
Whew! Finally got to take the deck out for a spin at the local after a bit of a hiatus. Went ok; 2𢠣, and my round 3 opponent (in the draw round) conceded and gave me packs. David T, you're a good man.
I had a couple of thoughts over the course of the tournament:
桯eavy-duty discard was more prevalent than I'd seen in the better part of a year. New meta, small tourney, whatever; just felt like there were many more T1 Thoughtseizes than I'd seen in a while. I'm wondering whether there's a good workaround that isn't our own T1 Thoughtseize.
桰 lost two games to Surgical Extraction on LED. I probably should've seen that coming and played more carefully, but that play really skewered me. I got forked at least once between running out LED in the hopes there wouldn't be a K-Command (there was) and keeping it in hand, leaving it vulnerable to Seize or Hymn to Tourach. [EDIT: as I recall, in one of the games, I lost the LEDs because I was playing against a mill deck, not because I'd gotten it Seized.] So how common is that play? I'd only ever seen the Extract LED play once or twice before yesterday. More importantly, how do we beat that aside from Gobbos?
Has anyone been tinkering with Mystic Remora of late? Feels like a potential answer to discards, though obviously we're exposing the card drawn to the discard before it resolves. Just wondered, given that it seems pretty busted against any deck running cantrips.
All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
PM me if you want to contribute!
What's the context that lost you the game? I don't see the line that intagibs you, other than in response to an Ad Nauseam, which would only force you into needing to draw natural Tendrils or a pure tutor like Grim or Dark Petition before you kill yourself. That can be a severe cutting down of chances to win, but not zero.
If you're talking about getting it Duressed T1 then Extracted, then same thing, dig to draw either Ad Nauseam or Tendrils or tutor. Or just play out your hand to cast Infernal naturally hellbent.
Or I'm totally missing something, which is always a persistent possibility.
Daze :P. Unfortunately, I'm guessing that with Dr S gone, t1 thoughtseize will become a much more common play for a lot of the black-based midrange decks. The upside of this is that they're likely still quite favourable
FWIW, keeping in k-command was likely incorrect from your opponents side. Unfortunately, people do still tend to do it, even if it's a pretty bad card in the matchup. I can only guess they don't have enough other cuts. You probably also shouldn't scoop if LED is surgicaled. It's not GG, it just means you need to sculpt your hand around more rituals/petals and go off once you're in a position to be able to empty it naturally It's harder, but so is everything post-board. As for how common it is...not super common, but it definitely happens.I got forked at least once between running out LED in the hopes there wouldn't be a K-Command (there was)...So how common is that play?...how do we beat that aside from Gobbos?
Thanks for the responses!
I didn't concede either time it happened. First time, the opponent just started playing Anglers and beat me down because I couldn't find anything quickly enough. The second time, I opened a combo turn with a Ritual (holding LED in hand) and he Extracted a graveyard LED in response. Probably should've seen it coming, but I was more worried about countermagic so I thought I'd bait it. Bad call, I guess. Meant I just flopped around looking for business that wasn't Infernal, and he beat me down.
Yeah, I didn't feel like any of the matchups I played was unfavorable; just a play that I'm not used to seeing, and it hit pretty hard.
I don't get the KCommand thing, either; I think it might be to try to Funeral Charm us and take out our artifacts at the same time, though at three mana (and requiring us to have already played out/lost the rest of our hand), that doesn't feel like a great plan to me.
All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
PM me if you want to contribute!
All, I'm hoping anyone would share their sideboarding plan in the new meta. For reference, I'm using the 1st place winning decklist (https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...8-13#decklists) as an initial starting point.
I've always subscribed to the philosophy that ANT wants to sideboard lightly after G1, maybe 3 or 4 cards tops. I'm presuming that with 4 Preordains, those are the first cards to be cut although perhaps that results in more clunky hands. In particular I'm curious about sideboarding against Stompy-style decks with Chalice and Wastelands. I'm assuming that ANT will want to bring in the Recalls and Echoing Truths and avoid bringing in the Decays because of the vulnerabilities due to the single green mana source.
Thanks!
If you haven't already, watch Rodrigo actually go through the replay of this. It's on twitch, account is togorestcg
As for my personal sideboarding plan, this is a rough guide I put together for a friend who's borrowing my deck this weekend, including some notes on specific matchups. I don't believe the list is tuned yet (main is probably fine, +/- 1 card. Sideboard is a WIP, but probably withing 4-5 cards)
SB Guide:
Delver with bolt
Out: Ad Nauseam, 1 x Cabal Ritual
In: Duress, Empty
Delver without bolt
Out: 1 x Cabal Ritual, 1 x PiF
In: Duress, Empty
(Philosophy here is hit earlier disruption and go for early empty of at least 8-10 goblins or play a little longer and get the tendrils kill. Against shadow, pay really close attention to how your storm count matches against your opponent's life total. 4 drills can do it sometimes)
DnT
Out: 3 x Duress, 1 x PiF, 1 x Cabal Ritual, 1 x Thoughtseize or 1 x Preordain
In: Empty. 2 x dread of night, 3 x abrupt decay
(you can probably board similarly with Maverick. You might think dread sucks against Mav, but the reality here is its just being used to blank mom and thalia so you can remove the handful of cards that actually matter). Rain of filth is the tits against Port. They'll likely port your black source. Cast rain of filth in response once you're ready to go off and it works as a ritual that can be cast on upkeep
Stompy decks (red or eldrazi)
Out: 3 x Duress, 1 x PiF, 1 x Cabal Ritual, 1 x Rain of filth, 1 x preordain
In: 2 x chain of vapor, 2 x echoing truth, 2 x decay, empty
Don't fall into the trap of going for interaction. Just keep a hand that plays magic
(if you play against loam at any point, use the same board plan, but leave out the empty and keep in the c-rit)
dark depths
Out: 2 thoughtseize, 1 duress, 1 pif, 1 swamp, 1 c-rit
In: 2 fluster, 2 chain, 2 echoing
Use fluster aggressively. It's best used on crop rotation, but don't hold it. Discard is cut because it's medicore in this matchhup
Elves
Out: 2 thoughtseize, 1 duress, 1 pif, 1 swamp, 1 c-rit
In: 2 fluster, 2 chain, 2 echoing
Discard and use fluster aggressively. Go after win cons. Much like depths, but its harder to interact with them meaningfully. They'll sometimes play mindbreak trap and surgical. Try to to play around these cards too much
Grixis control:
Out: 1 x PiF, 1 x Cabal Ritual, 1 x swamp
In: empty, 2 x fluster
This is theoretical. I haven't played the matchup much since DRS/Probe ban. It will likely be a bit of a slog although favourable overall. Its possible the second PiF is better than Petition. It may also be worth cutting rain of filth for duress. Aggressively take snaps with thoughtseize. They're actually your biggest issue in a long game
Miracles
Out: petition, swamp, 1 x cabal ritual, rain of filth/preordain
In: Xantid Swarm, 3 x decay.
There's an argument for duress over swarm. They'll often serve a similar function, only Swarm has to eat a hard counter
Infect
Out: swamp, PiF, 1 x cabal ritual, rain of filth, 1 x preordain
In: 2 x fluster, xantid swarm, 2 x decay
If you can land a xantid swarm, you'll very likely win. They only interact on the stack/in combat. Don't be shy about taking non-berserk pump spells. Don't be shy with fluster. Ad Nauseam tends to be amazing in this matchup
Lands:
Out: 4 x thoughtseize, 1 x PiF, 1 x cabal ritual
In: 2 x chain, 2 x echoing, 2 x decay
You'll lose some number of game 2's, just because they have a strong starter that locks you out then starts loaming you off lands. That's fine. You'll most likely win game 3. Sandbag at least 1 initial black source. rain of filth is amazing, just like against DnT (at least if they build their deck well, in which case they'll have more ports than ghost quarters)
Stoneblade
Out: 1 x petition, 1 x cabal ritual, 1 x either rain of filth or swamp: depends on if you see wasteland)
In: Empty, 2 x decay
Be aware that empty is only good early on or for enough goblins to beat batterskull. They'll likely board out some number of SFM, so it's a better win-con than it seems, it's just something you need to be aware of. Sometimes you'll just have to stick the goblins and hope they don't rip the SFM
Random bug decks
Out: PiF, Cabal Ritual, rain of filth
In: 2 x decay, 1 x empty
Generally pretty easy. Decay hedges against Leovold/random nonsense like nullrod. Empty probably needs to be at least a 2-turn clock to be worthwhile as they have sweepers and can occasionally just stabilise randomly with creatures
Reanimator
Out: swamp, 1 x preordain, 4 x thoughtseize, rain of filth
In: 2 x chain, 2 x echoing, 2 x fluster, 1 x crypt
Despite reanimator being sometimes quite soft to well-timed discard, it can be hard to actually get off in time and sometimes just achieves nothing in the matchup. Being reactive works much better. Much like stompy, don't mulligan for hands that interact, just keep hands that have some kind of plan to win
SnS
Out: Swamp, PiF,1 x cabal ritual, rain of filth, 1 x preordain
In: 2 x fluster, 2 x chain of vapor, xantid swarm
Don't cut chain, even if it looks fairly safe/quite anaemic. Sometimes they have white leylines and this is your only out. Echoing is better at dealing with multiple leylines but personally I'd rather tale the more efficient option as it leads to more effective other fringe cases such as bouncing omni or sneak attack
Dredge (normal)
Out: swamp, 4 x thoughtseize
In: crypt, 2 x chain or echoing, 2 x fluster
Thoughhtseize isn't great as sometimes you'll hit a creature by accident. Discard is only so-so in the matchup, but a duress can sometimes take their acceleration. Chain is better when you just want to bounce like ichorid/narcomoeba. Echoing is a wrath. Take your pick. Fluster to deal wtih therapy shenanigans
The mirror
Out: 1 x preordain, 1 x swamp, 1 x rain of filth
In: 2 x fluster, 1 x crypt
Crypt can be a real KO in the matchup as it often degenerates into a real slog that only PiF can fix. Try not to play around opposing hate too much, often as not if you can just jam you'll win. Fluster aggressively
Spells qty
Preordain 4
Ponder 4
Brainstorm 4
Dark ritual 4
cabal ritual 4
rain of filth 1
thoughtseize 4
duress 3
infernal tutor 4
past in flames 2
dark petition 1
ad nauseam 1
tendrils of agony 1
Artifacts
lion's eye diamond 4
lotus petal 4
lands
misty rainforest 4
polluted delta 4
underground sea 2
volcanic island 1
tropical island 1
bayou 1
swamp 1
island 1
sideboard
abrupt decay 3
xantid swarm 1
chain of vapor 2
echoing truth 2
empty the warrens 1
duress 1
dread of night 2
flusterstorm 2
tormod's crypt 1
Just want to share a memorable play versus pox, g2
I抦 at 1 life with no lands, no hand, two petals and a lead. Graveyard has pif and ad nauseam but no tutor or pay off card.
I draw a land, plays it and cracks led. I flashback pif with 1 mana left then play all my rituals.
I play ad nauseam (at one life). I flip... LED!! i stop.
I play and crack led for tripple blue.
I flashback ponder, shuffles, draw another LED, play it and crack it.
Flashback another ponder find tendrils and win
Yeah I抦 a lucksack
Skickat fr錸 min iPhone med Tapatalk
Hi all. I went 12-3 at GP Richmond this weekend with ANT and was the highest finishing combo player at 19th (10th-20th were based on breakers).
This is the list I played:
15 Lands:
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
45 Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Dark Petition
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Lion抯 Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Rain of Filth
SB:
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Xantid Swarm
2 Hurkyl抯 Recall
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
2 Tormod抯 Crypt
2 Dread of Night
1 Empty the Warrens
I loved the list and would make no changes. I'm edit: (37-9 in paper with this list since the banning.) I also took 2nd in Channel Fireball's Legacy 2K a week ago and then 12-0d side events at GP Sacramento.
Bye
2-1 Sneak
2-1 DnT
1-2 DnT
1-2 DnT
2-0 ANT
2-1 Infect
2-1 4c Loam
Day 2:
1-2 Sneak
2-0 Miracles
2-1 Miracles
2-0 ANT
2-1 ANT
2-0 Moon Stompy
2-1 Grixis Control
I felt my losses were just variance, as were some of my wins. That is the nature of playing a combo deck. I'd be happy to talk about my list or matchups if anyone is interested!
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