[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Lemnear]

btw. looking for hot tech vs. UB Omnitell as Notion Thief doesn't work well with DiG and I try not to play XS... any ideas?

Slaughter Games

[mishima_kazuya]

DoN vs. Massacre - that is a serious problem, D+T is wrecked by 1st and can play around 2nd, 2nd wrecks UWR and is good vs. Deathblade, both is bad vs. Teeg ... no real solution (I even tried Sulfur Elemental), that's why I largely prefer to face U decks rather than creature decks, "bye" matches vs g/w decks is myth of 2010, easier to metagame localy but what to play in anymous tournament...

That's how I feel as well. Disruptive cards that prevent me from chaining cantrips and also double up as clocks are a lot worse than playing against countermagic.

Lately, I have found myself losing lots of close games to non-blue decks as I find myself making more mistakes when my opponents are dropping down Null Rods and Thalias, while threatening quick lethal damage that forces me to consider comboing out earlier.
My win percentage against Miracles in both online and paper has been very good, almost to the point where I would rather sit down opposite from Miracles than Burn.

[Jonathan Alexander]

You know, there's a reason I'm running a configuration that fully supports Ad Nauseam. Consistently killing people on turn two is a good way to answer multiple permanents.

[Lemnear]

You know, there's a reason I'm running a configuration that fully supports Ad Nauseam. Consistently killing people on turn two is a good way to answer multiple permanents.

Are we talking about the same decklist which contained many more 4cc cards than the standard lists? "Consistently killing people on turn two" is a blatant hyperbole for ANT you can bring up in casual threads, but not here. Most people here have an idea about ANTs turn-2-kill-ratio, which I would sure not describe as "consistently"

[Megadeus]

If bears are an issue for you, seriously. Try lightning bolt/pyroclasm

[Jonathan Alexander]

Are we talking about the same decklist which contained many more 4cc cards than the standard lists? "Consistently killing people on turn two" is a blatant hyperbole for ANT you can bring up in casual threads, but not here. Most people here have an idea about ANTs turn-2-kill-ratio, which I would sure not describe as "consistently"

I actually had my 2 Ad Nauseam list in mind, which is in fact pretty consistent with turn two kills.

Edit: Maybe we have different ideas of "pretty consistent". Either way, I meant roughly 50%, which is definitly enough, seeing as you're not auto-dead if you don't kill them by turn two..

[sawatarix]

We don't need specific cards against Omnitell because it's already a good matchup for us.
They have to sideboard a lot but we can exchange discard spells with swarms and 1 chain of vapor.

Maybe you remember that i also toyed around with 2 Ad Nauseams last year for blazing fast kills. While having Ad Nauseam in your hand is a good thing because it allows you to go off with few ressources (I call it the Show and Tell in Storm) it is not always easy to get 5 mana during our early turns.
Cabal Rituals and Lotus Petals produce only +1 mana on turn 1-2 so we rely on dark ritual. Of course we can brainstorm and put Ad Nauseam on top of our libary and then use LED mana to play it but the beauty of Ad Nauseam is to go off without going all in when casting it from our hand.
So Rain of Filth (5th cark titual) make a lot of sense here. I can almost imagine to include a second rain of filth in such an aggressive build but this means that we have to cut preordains which makes our deck more inconsistent.
As a conclusion, if you play 2 Ad Nauseam+ additional fast mana over preordains we get more turn 1-2 kills but we also loose more games because of worse topdecks.

[DarkJester]

We don't need specific cards against Omnitell because it's already a good matchup for us.
They have to sideboard a lot but we can exchange discard spells with swarms and 1 chain of vapor.

Maybe you remember that i also toyed around with 2 Ad Nauseams last year for blazing fast kills. While having Ad Nauseam in your hand is a good thing because it allows you to go off with few ressources (I call it the Show and Tell in Storm) it is not always easy to get 5 mana during our early turns.
Cabal Rituals and Lotus Petals produce only +1 mana on turn 1-2 so we rely on dark ritual. Of course we can brainstorm and put Ad Nauseam on top of our libary and then use LED mana to play it but the beauty of Ad Nauseam is to go off without going all in when casting it from our hand.
So Rain of Filth (5th cark titual) make a lot of sense here. I can almost imagine to include a second rain of filth in such an aggressive build but this means that we have to cut preordains which makes our deck more inconsistent.
As a conclusion, if you play 2 Ad Nauseam+ additional fast mana over preordains we get more turn 1-2 kills but we also loose more games because of worse topdecks.

I don't think Rain of Filth produces that much Mana on turn 1 or 2. ^^

[Lemnear]

I don't think Rain of Filth produces that much Mana on turn 1 or 2. ^^

I guess it was in regards to turbo T.hold, but 7 cards in your grave turn 2 for Cabal Ritual is still a massive requirement. However, that still ignores the odds of having 5/7 mana + AN or IT + hellbent by turn two which remains the core of the Problem on top of the High cmc to reveal to AN (I mean: second AN, PIFs, ToAs) and lack of IMS'.

It's a totally unnecessary struggle/gambling you're putting yourself in compared to the YOLO MB EtW.

[Jonathan Alexander]

Just to put it out there, Ari Lax had a list with double Rain of Filth ages ago, not sure if he ever played it anywhere, but he mentioned it in an article.

[sawatarix]

Just a little update regarding the manabase:

I play the 2 Volcanic Island 1 Bayou configuration for 2 weeks now and i'm pretty satisfied.
Tropical Island deserves a slot in my sideboard of course.

still not sure if empty the warrens is better then 1 burning wish in the main as a splitcard (tendrils of agony/empty the warrens)
I mean,a hand with Pif+rituals and wish is still a win whereas Empty is not.
The only sacrifice is to not have a fast turn1 goblin blowout but honestly, i haven't done it for weeks anyway.

[Lemnear]

Just a little update regarding the manabase:

I play the 2 Volcanic Island 1 Bayou configuration for 2 weeks now and i'm pretty satisfied.
Tropical Island deserves a slot in my sideboard of course.

still not sure if empty the warrens is better then 1 burning wish in the main as a splitcard (tendrils of agony/empty the warrens)
I mean,a hand with Pif+rituals and wish is still a win whereas Empty is not.
The only sacrifice is to not have a fast turn1 goblin blowout but honestly, i haven't done it for weeks anyway.

...mind the double red cost for Wish+PIF or Wish+EtW. That stuff is pretty annoying or why else do you think TES is bothering with RoF?

[phazonmutant]

Just a little update regarding the manabase:

I play the 2 Volcanic Island 1 Bayou configuration for 2 weeks now and i'm pretty satisfied.
Tropical Island deserves a slot in my sideboard of course.

still not sure if empty the warrens is better then 1 burning wish in the main as a splitcard (tendrils of agony/empty the warrens)
I mean,a hand with Pif+rituals and wish is still a win whereas Empty is not.
The only sacrifice is to not have a fast turn1 goblin blowout but honestly, i haven't done it for weeks anyway.

Is that with 14 lands main, or do you board up to 16 lands? It still seems like such a waste to devote a sideboard slot to a land, and I've been very happy maindecking 15 land given the prevalence of Wasteland decks.

I went 4-0 in a local with a list based on the hints and teasers that Slosh has posted about his list. I was very impressed with the two Past in Flames, and didn't miss Ad Nauseam. Here is my list, but I would appreciate slosh and sawatarix posting theirs for comparison since I've only played one event with it:

2 Past in Flames
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Infernal Tutor

4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual

3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain

4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp

// Sideboard
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Xantid Swarm
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Massacre
1 Ad Nauseam

I think my sideboard is pretty loose. I forgot to find room for 2-3 Sensei's Tops for the Miracles and discard matchups. The Empty, Duress, Massacre, and Ad Nauseam seem the most easily cutable to me, any advice?

I was happy with Bolt. I got an awesome blowout game 2 against Deathblade where I probed him turn 1 on the draw, saw that he had an absolutely stacked hand but no second land, and Bolted his Deathrite. It bought me like 4 turns and I won easily from there. I don't think that I need a second green land because I'm not planning on bringing in Decay or Swarm against Wasteland decks (except some sort of prison deck). Thoughts?

[sawatarix]

Well done—:)


I play 15 lands in my deck and depending on the matchup i exchange tropical island with another land or just add tropical as my 16th land against heavy land destruction decks.
Personally the lightning bolts do the very same thing as abrupt decay so in my opinion they look like wasted slots.
The best removal spells for stormdecks have been abrupt decay, chain of vapor (maybe the best one) and massacre/don so i don' really see the need for stuff like bolts, sudden shocks or pyroclasm.

Don't you board 2 abrupt decays against esper/jeskaiblade and jeskai delver?
Well you have Lightning Bolts and 1 massacre so probably not, but in general we have to board either 2 massacres or some number of abrupt decays.

[phazonmutant]

Well done—:)


I play 15 lands in my deck and depending on the matchup i exchange tropical island with another land or just add tropical as my 16th land against heavy land destruction decks.
Personally the lightning bolts do the very same thing as abrupt decay so in my opinion they look like wasted slots.
The best removal spells for stormdecks have been abrupt decay, chain of vapor (maybe the best one) and massacre/don so i don' really see the need for stuff like bolts, sudden shocks or pyroclasm.

Don't you board 2 abrupt decays against esper/jeskaiblade and jeskai delver?
Well you have Lightning Bolts and 1 massacre so probably not, but in general we have to board either 2 massacres or some number of abrupt decays.

Agreed, those Lightning Bolts are probably better served as something else. I don't like boarding in Abrupt Decay against Maverick. It's expensive and off color. I also don't like boarding in Decay against blade decks (especially if they have wastelands) for the same reasons.

Interesting that you like 16 lands. I barely like 15.

[Megadeus]

Greg your thoughts on the bolt and decay boarding against wasteland decks are my same exact thoughts and bolt has been great for me when I've played it. In a heavy hate bear meta I'd definitely play it. As for the deck, the only thing I'm not a huge fan of is the second tendrils, but I could very well be wrong on it. I also wouldn't cut AN completely just because it's personally my favorite tool to race elves/other combo decks, especially the ones that have trouble interacting

[Lemnear]

Well, you could Ponder about Disfigure instead of Bolt as a solution to Hatebears and shit as it wouldn't require you to fetch a Volcanic and expose your (likely) only red Dual to Wasteland

[Royce Walter]

Well, you could Ponder about Disfigure instead of Bolt as a solution to Hatebears and shit as it wouldn't require you to fetch a Volcanic and expose your (likely) only red Dual to Wasteland

Yeah, Bolt doesn't make any sense to me for these reasons. Being able to go off with a lower storm count seems like a fringe bonus at best, in what world can you get to exactly 6-7 spells on the combo turn with 3+ red mana? I mean, I'm sure it comes up, but the opportunity cost of getting Wastelanded seems much more problematic to me.

[sawatarix]

chain of vapor is still the best removal spell overall.
No need to fill your sideboard with unnessesary removal spells like Lightning Bolts, Sudden Shock or Disfigures.

[Togores]

Wagner won the modern event with modern pyromancer storm control and the legacy with grinding station at the mkm series. The guy is good. Nice.
I ended 4-4 u.u loosing to jean marie acart, a guy that top 8 in modern and 2 of my friends with control when in most of the games I got to 6 lands before diiing and only having played 2-3 spells....

So now vintage!