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Thread: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

  1. #6221

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by ye_old_storm_boy View Post
    Sp I have one Sea the rest are shocks, I can pcik up a Bayou or Badlands soon. Which is better in the current Meta, TES or ANT?
    For the duals, if you're still deciding which way to jump between ANT/TES, hold off on #2. If you go TES, the best will be badlands. If you go ANT, I'd recommend a second sea (sea into sea lets you have the choice of discard/cantrip or discard/ritual and IME is usually what I want to be playing for).

    As for which is better in the meta, I can't rightly tell you. I'm biased in that I think ANT is more enjoyable to play and I'm not likely to pick up TES, regardless of meta. I don't like drawing Chrome Mox, I like playing cantrips and i think PiF is one of the best cards in legacy on a raw power level. In fact you're unlikely to get any neutral answers on this unfortunately beyond trying both and seeing which one works out best for you

  2. #6222
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Ye_old_storm_boy, Fangzie speaks the truth.

    The metagame is in a really unstable place right now, largely because of the London mulligan. I would keep testing with proxies and/or shocklands to see how things shake out before committing to anything. (It's worth pointing out that recent printings, bannings, and unilateral rules changes/proposed rules changes are clearly geared toward knocking Storm out of the range of playability.)

    As a caveat, I've not played much TES and I don't feel particularly comfortable judging its efficacy. With that said, and without a lot of experience in the brave new world we're almost certainly about to enter, I'm looking more and more toward TES over AnT simply because it's in a better position to get under a T12 Chalice of the Void, which we're almost definitely going to start seeing every game from at least a fifth to a sixth of our opponents.

    I'm a committed Storm enthusiast, and I'm not pleased about the way things are going.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  3. #6223
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    Ye_old_storm_boy, Fangzie speaks the truth.

    The metagame is in a really unstable place right now, largely because of the London mulligan. I would keep testing with proxies and/or shocklands to see how things shake out before committing to anything. (It's worth pointing out that recent printings, bannings, and unilateral rules changes/proposed rules changes are clearly geared toward knocking Storm out of the range of playability.)

    As a caveat, I've not played much TES and I don't feel particularly comfortable judging its efficacy. With that said, and without a lot of experience in the brave new world we're almost certainly about to enter, I'm looking more and more toward TES over AnT simply because it's in a better position to get under a T12 Chalice of the Void, which we're almost definitely going to start seeing every game from at least a fifth to a sixth of our opponents.

    I'm a committed Storm enthusiast, and I'm not pleased about the way things are going.
    Thanks for the help!
    I heard something about a TES/AnT mix, with some Burning Wishes, a rite of flame, and maybe chrome mox? does anyone have a list for that?

  4. #6224

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by ye_old_storm_boy View Post
    Thanks for the help!
    I heard something about a TES/AnT mix, with some Burning Wishes, a rite of flame, and maybe chrome mox? does anyone have a list for that?
    There are a few lists like that, I've brewed/tried a few myself, and I wouldn't really recommend them. You end up with this issue of not being able to serve either half of your Cabal Rit/PiF or Chrome Mox/Wish engines well enough.

    For example, Cabal Ritual is really awkward with Wish because there is a hidden requirement for multiple red mana for Wish in a lot of practical scenarios (Burning Wish > EtW needs RR, Wish > PiF also needs RR), the idea that you can tap out for Wish turn 2 and then pass having sent up a huge tell on what your combo approach is going to be is really dubious, you're liable to get hit by any hatebear, Hymn, nonbasic hate etc. Conversely, Rite of Flame isn't all that great with PiF loops, as the critical color you'll want is black to replay Tutors. Moreover, Rite of Flame getting exiled on Flashbacks degrades all future copies, whereas Cabal Rituals are always fine as long as you maintain Threshold with any card in your GY. Of course, it also goes without saying that Chrome Mox and PiF do not play well together, but that just speaks to the other deck building issue, and that is that a lot of the room for Wish or Chrome Mox comes at the expense of Preordains, tech cards and the occasional land, which means the deck becomes more exposed to variance in draws and play patterns.

    I do see some ANT list with 1-of Wishes or Chrome Moxes in the 75, though, and my TES list has a pair of Cabal Rits rounding out the tech slots, so, it's not like you can't blur the card choices a bit. The issue with trying to do a "hybrid" is that some of the cards just don't have good synergy and you diminish the strengths of either path along the way without really gaining as much. TES is very fast, and probably the best deck at exploiting Ad Nauseam and Burning Wish, whereas ANT is one of the most resilient combos, leveraging the strength of Past in Flames and natural Storm; I think it's probably a better idea to try and discern which concept fits the meta better, as opposed to trying to do some "Next Level" stuff.

  5. #6225
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    What is the best way to pick up duals? im fine with buying the cheaper ones from my LGS, but I need a second sea and the do not have one

  6. #6226
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark View Post
    Difficult to answer, you wont be getting 100% but how much worse it would be I cant tell, the problem is DP isnt very good in fetching EtW T1/2 and doesnt search for AD well g1 so a 3rd Preordain might be a consideration instead, on the other hand a 2nd tutor for lower post GP consistency especially nice vs. SE in this list I do not care that much about SEd bussiness but Leyline is quite popular atm among CotV decks where both DP and 1cc spells can be awkward... So I dont know you can try both Preordain and DP, you'll lose some games due to it and win other... The more important thing is careful fetch management - be ready to draw the AD, fetch nonbasics unless having good reason not to, I'm also playing it as aggressively as any other build, board out EtW only vs Elves, board out LPs and CRs a lot, board for maximum interaction in combo MUs, do non deterministic PIF a lot
    I have played ANT for a while, and just find myself hating Ad Nauseam, so i am looking at Slosh or wonderPreaux lists, and am wondering whether the grixis or 4 color vesrion is better and if there are sideboards guides for either list anywhere

  7. #6227

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by MScott View Post
    I have played ANT for a while, and just find myself hating Ad Nauseam, so i am looking at Slosh or wonderPreaux lists, and am wondering whether the grixis or 4 color vesrion is better and if there are sideboards guides for either list anywhere
    I probably can't say for sure which is better among 3 and 4 color lists, as I haven't taken the time to test Pernicious Deed, which is the green card Slosh plays that I'm curious about the most. I will grant that, I don't really see that many Wastelands anymore, so maybe the opportunity cost isn't that high these days for a 4th color. My main logic for sticking to grixis was that staying in 3 colors let me play 3-5 basics, which was very hard for opponents to disrupt, and also that I don't think many of the green cards are really all that good or necessary (though, again, I didn't test Deed, the closest I've come is playing EE a few times).

    As for SB guides, idk about Slosh, but I move through a lot of different versions of ANT, and also switch between TES (which I'm currently playing now), so I don't usually take time to write down stuff in depth when I'll only be on a list for 25-50 matches. I could write up some quick notes if there's a list of mine you're curious about, and then you could follow the same general logic as you end up adjusting your own list.

  8. #6228
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderPreaux View Post
    I probably can't say for sure which is better among 3 and 4 color lists, as I haven't taken the time to test Pernicious Deed, which is the green card Slosh plays that I'm curious about the most. I will grant that, I don't really see that many Wastelands anymore, so maybe the opportunity cost isn't that high these days for a 4th color. My main logic for sticking to grixis was that staying in 3 colors let me play 3-5 basics, which was very hard for opponents to disrupt, and also that I don't think many of the green cards are really all that good or necessary (though, again, I didn't test Deed, the closest I've come is playing EE a few times).

    As for SB guides, idk about Slosh, but I move through a lot of different versions of ANT, and also switch between TES (which I'm currently playing now), so I don't usually take time to write down stuff in depth when I'll only be on a list for 25-50 matches. I could write up some quick notes if there's a list of mine you're curious about, and then you could follow the same general logic as you end up adjusting your own list.
    Thank you so much, thats very helpful. I am intrigued by your list on the MTG goldfish meta game page, https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1831179#paper, and if you had some notes thatd be great.

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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark View Post
    Would you happen to have a sideboard guide/ any advice for this list? And is the trop in the 61st card slot necessary?

  10. #6230
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Weeeeheeeheeeeeell, Timetwister seems pretty cool.

    There's still hope for Maygick, even in these dark times.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  11. #6231
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    Weeeeheeeheeeeeell, Timetwister seems pretty cool.

    There's still hope for Maygick, even in these dark times.
    Thought about it, but it makes Cabal Ritual bad, and I'd want to start the turn with a Silence before gifting my opponent a fresh hand, so it seems better placed in a 5-color old fashioned TES build.

    Don't get me wrong, either way the card is bonkers, it's on track to be gas to a number of decks.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  12. #6232
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Thought about it, but it makes Cabal Ritual bad, and I'd want to start the turn with a Silence before gifting my opponent a fresh hand, so it seems better placed in a 5-color old fashioned TES build.

    Don't get me wrong, either way the card is bonkers, it's on track to be gas to a number of decks.
    Yeah, I think you're right on both counts. It's interesting to me because I've been kicking around a white splash independently (Monastery Mentor seems good even when we have trouble building spell chains), so maybe Silence would be good to try.

    Interesting to see that an in-hand Eons works similarly to Past in Flames if we crack a Diamond in response to a Tutor. Ostensibly significantly worse, but I feel like there's something there.

    On a different subject, what do people think of Shatter Assumptions for our sideboard? If we don't have a Ritual, it might be too slow to consider, but it might crack those damnable Eldrazis pretty hard on the play.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  13. #6233
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    How do people feel about echo of eons in the builds that dont use ad nauseum?

  14. #6234
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by MScott View Post
    How do people feel about echo of eons in the builds that dont use ad nauseum?
    I'm interested in giving it a try. I don't know that all you'd need to cut would be Ad Nauseam: we'd need another way to tip the scales in our favor after giving our opponents a fresh set of seven cards, and drawing seven is a lot less good than drawing 18, but the card is patently nuts. Anyone been switching out green for white lately?
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  15. #6235

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Seems like decklists with Daze are doing better recently, how does having Daze fundamentally change how the deck plays out, particularly in the early game?

  16. #6236
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    CyrusCG would you happen to have a sideboard guide for this list https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1986957#paper?

  17. #6237

    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by MScott View Post
    CyrusCG would you happen to have a sideboard guide for this list https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1986957#paper?
    I don't, this is Kai Sawatari's list and I'm not really sold on the Dazes. I think Cliffy81 has an article he is going to release going over the deck with sb notes.

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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by CyrusCG View Post
    I don't, this is Kai Sawatari's list and I'm not really sold on the Dazes. I think Cliffy81 has an article he is going to release going over the deck with sb notes.
    Ok cool thank you!

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