[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Royce Walter]

What about this:

15 lands

4 LED
4 infernal
1 tendrils
1 past
3 Ascension
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
3 duress
3 cabal therapy
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 probe
3 thoughtscour
3 manamorphose

Ugh that just looks bad. That's a lot of GY dependency and a turn slower.

Perhaps the discard counts can go down instead?

Turning on opponents' decays game 1 seems really bad conceptually.

[Tammit67]

Turning on opponents' decays game 1 seems really bad conceptually.

It's not like AnT is in such a good position that nothing needs to change. Hopefully the increased vulnerability comes at a boost in resiliency decay not withstanding.

Decay decks usually run enough discard I'm running out LEDs anyway to avoid having to discard them, so there will often be a target regardless. I think.

[Anusien]

Unless you get an instant, the 2nd Infernal Tutor off PA isn't going to be hellbent. I guess finding Dark Rit for a DT that also nets BB is fine.

Hellbent Infernal Tutor + B floating will kill the opponent from 0 storm, assuming your deck is set up right.

[Lemnear]

Hellbent Infernal Tutor + B floating will kill the opponent from 0 storm, assuming your deck is set up right.

you can chain here the first infernal into Infernal+DR, the second into Infernal+CR, the third into...

[Anusien]

you can chain here the first infernal into Infernal+DR, the second into Infernal+CR, the third into...

Each Tutor gets Tutor + Ritual, the last one gets Ritual + Tendrils to kill them. That's 9 spells plus the Tendrils copy for exactly 20. You can also get Lotus Petal + Past in Flames on the last one to do a ton of damage.

[lordofthepit]

Each Tutor gets Tutor + Ritual, the last one gets Ritual + Tendrils to kill them. That's 9 spells plus the Tendrils copy for exactly 20. You can also get Lotus Petal + Past in Flames on the last one to do a ton of damage.

Unless I'm missing something, you can't get Lotus Petal + Past in Flames off Infernal Tutor with a copy from Pyromancer's Ascension.

[sawatarix]

Well i tested pyromancers adcension and unfortunately it's to bad.
Wait no,it's great to have against any kind of control deck deck but it really sucks against anything else because it's to slow.
Playing the deck with 4 rite of flames instead of lotus petals and pyromancers ascension the deck becomes a turn 5-7 deck and that's not what we want against aggressive delverdecks or other fast combodecks.

If it gets a home somewhere,i can imagine 2 copies in a sideboard for extra grinding but then i would still play my young pyromancers instead against control.


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[Lemnear]

The only purpose was against the control/grindy matchups. It shines against Liliana/Hymn/Miracles and stuff like that. It was never ment to fight aggressive decks like Delver or Combo

[mishima_kazuya]

The only purpose was against the control/grindy matchups. It shines against Liliana/Hymn/Miracles and stuff like that. It was never ment to fight aggressive decks like Delver or Combo

At that point, I think it is better just to have Pyromancer Ascension in the SB if you plan on bringing it in against slower match ups.
That in turn raises the question, would you rather have Dark Confidant or Pyromancer's Ascension in your sideboard? Most of the controling decks in the format usually side out their one for one removal like Abrupt Decay and StP, so Bob is only vulnerable to however many copies of Liliana, Terminus, Golgari Charm, etc they have left. Ascension is a lot less vulnerable to removal, but does not generate card advantage almost immediately like Bob.

Of course, once you get Ascension active its pretty hard to lose. From my experience playing against Storm in Modern, putting another Serum Visions on the stack with an Ascension trigger is enough to win the game usually. Now imagine that with the better cantrips available in Legacy, like Preordaining twice.

[Patrunkenphat7]

The best win con in our deck is already bad against GY hate. Ascension does nothing to help against difficult matchups or hate that Past in Flames doesn't already do. Also, I think Storm is a great choice right now.

[Dia_Bot]

I feel like without them disrupting our graveyard we can win against anything anyway (Crit+tutor+Pif can win through counters and discard). The only improvement I could see to the current lists is another way to win without relying on the graveyard. We already have Ad Nauseam (dependent on life),Tutor chains (dependent on the number of cards in hand) and somethimes Etw (dependent on the board state).
The only other options which come to mind are mass tutors (Doomsday) and draw 7's. Unfortunately doomsday requires too many slots to include and doesn't work well with Ad Nauseam and many draw 7's are banned.
Diminishing returns is an option but you need to increase the number of chrome moxen to make it work and that doesn't work well with our Pif engine.
A second legal draw 7 is Time spiral. While it can occasionally be good it does require a lot of lands to use optimally and this is not something we can consistently do with the deck without seriously slowing it down.

[Lemnear]

At that point, I think it is better just to have Pyromancer Ascension in the SB if you plan on bringing it in against slower match ups.
That in turn raises the question, would you rather have Dark Confidant or Pyromancer's Ascension in your sideboard? Most of the controling decks in the format usually side out their one for one removal like Abrupt Decay and StP, so Bob is only vulnerable to however many copies of Liliana, Terminus, Golgari Charm, etc they have left. Ascension is a lot less vulnerable to removal, but does not generate card advantage almost immediately like Bob.

Of course, once you get Ascension active its pretty hard to lose. From my experience playing against Storm in Modern, putting another Serum Visions on the stack with an Ascension trigger is enough to win the game usually. Now imagine that with the better cantrips available in Legacy, like Preordaining twice.

I just thought that with the numbers Miracles and Team America puts up atm, trying it maindeck is an idea. A small remark: Bob takes 2 full turns before creating cardadvantage, does also nothing the turn it comes into play and is a 2cc cantrip the first turn after casting. I think if you reseve PA the same two turns it takes for Bob to create advantage, the effect is overwhelming. However, 2 engines that have serious issues with RIP are a problem; DRS is not as removing cards in GY in response is pointless to the PA trigger

[gregtron]

Hey, guys. I played ANT this past weekend in Milwaukee and thought I'd share my experience with all of you. Here's what I registered:

1 Tendrils
1 Past in Flames
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 LED
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Burning Wish

1 Gemstone Mine
1 Bayoue
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest

SB:
3 Dread of Night
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Chain of Vapor

From my chicken-scratch notes and terrible memory:

Round 1: 2-0 W, UWR Delver
I don't think my opponent was familiar with this matchup, which was nice because goddam is it a slog if they mulligan properly. Turn 4 I Probed to see Force, Pierce, Pierce, Swords to Plowshares, Batterskull, and followed up with Therapy which he Forced removing Pierce leaving a Tundra untapped. I had plenty of mana to play around Pierce, and used the one extra Storm he generated to Tendrils him for 24 around the Swords. Game 2 was about the same; Blind-flipped Delver into Stoneforge with not enough permission to stop me from shotgunning him. This match is a total nightmare, so I was happy to get through it alive.

-2 Preordain
+1 Massacre
+1 Chain of Vapor

Round 2: 2-0 W, UWR Delver
My opponent this round was familiar with the combo matchup, but luckily for me he didn't see enough lands to put me away. He took me to six in game 1 before I could find put together a Thoughtseize, Therapy, combo hand to kill him. Game 2 I probed on turn 2 to see a stacked-ass hand of Rest in Peace, Meddling Mage, Pierce, Flusterstorm, Stoneforge, Ethersworn Canonist. I didn't have the kill, so I Brainstormed away a Past in Flames, Pondered, and passed the turn hoping he wouldn't rip a second land as I needed Threshold to win and had no answer for his hate-bears. He didn't, I drew the Past in Flames I'd tried to get rid of, killed him.

-2 Preordain
+1 Massacre
+1 Chain of Vapor

Round 3: 0-2 L, Elves, Owen Turtenwald
Yes, I lost to Elves. I spent a couple of turns cantripping while he played out a bunch of dorks. I Probed him around turn 4 and saw a pretty stacked hand that would kill me with top-decked Glimpse, Natural Order, GSZ, or the natural Craterhoof, and may have panicked. I should've let him keep his hand and continue attacking me for 4 a turn until I had the kill, but I decided to natural Tendrils him to 2 leaving an LED and 3 lands in play, hoping that I could topdeck Burning Wish or Infernal Tutor to put him away and died miserably with two useless cards in hand. There's no universe in which this line makes sense, and the two cards I drew were Lotus Petal and a Ritual, which would've killed him. I don't know, guys, choked. Game 2 we threw Therapies at each other for a while until I had to choose between a Warrens for 12 Goblins or a Gains to strip his hand. I went with the latter because I had Top in play and thought I could find the kill better than he could with LED, LED, Infernal. We went for a few turns of me bricking, and him drawing and playing like a champ, and he Craterhoofed me for lethal and a little extra. I was really hoping to spike this good matchup in front of my friends against a person who I consider to be one of the best players alive. :(

-2 Preordain
-1 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Pyroclasm
+1 Ad Nauseam
+1 Chain of Vapor

Round 4: 2-1 W, Death and Taxes
This is the deck my wife's been championing for a long time, so I've played this specific matchup hundreds of times. I love it. I especially love it when they keep 5 lands, Mom, Vial in the dark and let me goldfish them into oblivion. Game 2 was more typical. I cantripped turn 1, Burning Wished for Massacre on turn 2, and and continued to try to build up a lethal hand while he went Vial, Canonist, Thalia, and Karakas. I paid 1 extra to cast LED and passed the turn hoping to Abrupt Decay Canonist in end-step, untap, Massacre Thalia away, and roll the dice on my draw step (needed another Ritual, land, or mana rock to get there - pretty good odds, and I was dead on board otherwise). I pass, and my opponent Enlighten Tutors for Chalice. I'm still in good shape as I can Decay the Chalice end-step, untap and Massacre, play an LED for no extra, and then Ritual out while his Vial trigger for Thalia is on the stack. I was doing all the math in my head as I handed my opponent his deck back after shuffling, and then I saw him put the Chalice on his deck face-up, then put it in his hand, then draw for the turn. I stopped him, confirmed that he had not missed a land drop and that it was the draw step of his fifth turn, and I called a judge. I don't think he was being scummy or trying to cheat me, but the judge went through the same count of permanents, cards-in-hand, and graveyard that I did, and my opponent was given a game loss for drawing extra cards. A little disappointing, as my opponent had presented a really interesting puzzle.

-2 Preordain
-2 Duress
+1 Massacre
+1 Ad Nauseam
+2 Abrupt Decay

Round 5: 2-1 W, Show and Tell
I'm really not sure what to think about these games, or whether or not they're typical of this matchup. I Probed, Therapied, and tried to balance my hand-hate across his permission and combo pieces while I put the kill together. Thankfully none of his cantrips were Brainstorm to hide anything important, and I killed him. Game two I opened with Zantid Swarm, but my hand was otherwise very weak. Game 3 we both mulliganed, and I opened again with Xantid Swarm. He cast all 4 of his Ponders while I beat him down with Xantid Swarm, putting him on the infinity turn clock. When I'd finally put together a lethal hand, I turned Swarm sideways, mumbled "trigger" like I'd done three turns in a row, and cast a Dark Ritual. He said "You didn't attack with Swarm, you just forgot to untap it", and he Spell Pierced my Ritual. I should've called a judge at this point, but I was so fucking tilted that a) I'd done that or (more likely) b) my opponent was trying to angle-shoot me. I just passed the turn. He show and tells into Grizzy. I untap, draw another Ritual, slam my poor Xantid Swarm into Grizzlebee's hook hands, and show-boated a Tendrils for 36.

-2 Preordain
-1 Ponder
-1 Thoughtseize
+3 Xantid Swarm
+1 Empty the Warrens

Round 6: 0-2 L, Nic Fit, James Hammes
You might remember James as the one who let Sam Black kill him the following round due to a misunderstanding of the board state. This round for him was much more impressive, as he named exactly the correct card off each Therapy. And he cast a lot of Therapies. Even with Top and my cantrips I couldn't keep up, and he gave me the ol' maindeck Gaddock Teeg and Living Wish for Canonist, which is very difficult for me to answer pre-board. Game two was pretty much the same thing, and he got me in two.

-2 Preordain
+1 Chain of Vapor
+1 Ad Nauseam

Round 7: 0-2 L, Mana Dredge
I died turn 2. Then I died turn 2. It was nice to see a competent Dredge pilot, I just wish I'd been able to kill him first. Oh well. I dropped after this and went home.

-2 Preordain
-1 Thoughtseize
+1 Ad Nauseam
+1 Empty the Warrens
+1 Chain of Vapor


So anyway, that was my experience of beating 1 Thalia deck and 3 blue decks, while losing to two green decks and Dredge. Moving forward, I think I'm going to change the board as follows:

-3 Dread of night. I didn't even bring these in against D&T, and I don't especially love them against UWR Delver. They really just don't do enough to keep Canonist and Teeg out of your hair, and you usually have enough time to find Burning Wish for Pyroclasm, Massacre, or Abrupt Decay.

+1 Virtue's Ruin or Texic Deluge, for wiping hate-bears. Deluge seems like a stronger Wish target, but Virtue's ruin does everything I want without costing me any life.

+1 Grapeshot. With the Dreads out, there's plenty of room to try and find something else that dodges Teeg, kills a bunch of annoying stuff, plays nice with Past in Flames, etc. I'm going to try it out, at least.

+1 Sensei's Divining Top. Top was the shit all day for me, and I want another to bring in against Hymn + Thoughtseize decks. I was tempted to use this as a slot for an extra Thoughtseize in the board, but I generally move Thoughtseize to the board in matches where I want it as a Wish target anyway. Top is just too good.

[Jin Gitaxias]

Thanks for the report. The only remark I have is that i advise against sideboarding ETW vs dredge because they can usually generate enough zombies to survive.

[gregtron]

Thanks for the report. The only remark I have is that i advise against sideboarding ETW vs dredge because they can usually generate enough zombies to survive.

Yep, but I can also kill off a Goblin token using a flashbacked Therapy to kill their bridges. Corner case, sure, but I like having it as an option.

[nevilshute]

I don't normally post tournament reports from smaller events but I had the most crazy night last night at my LGS' weekly legacy event that I thought I'd post it. I went 6-0 taking first place which was awesome of course. I ended up playing:

Elves (2-0)
UR Delver (2-0)
Omniclash (2-0)
UW-tempoblade (2-0)
UW True-Name control (2-1)
Reanimator (2-1)

I've been running a second Tendrils in the sideboard for a while now to have a better game against certain decks, mainly Miracles, but it came in handy in a lot of games against other decks too last night.

One particular game was absolutely awesome. It was game 2 of round 4 against UW-tempoblade. I've played against my opponent before and he's a very tight player who has been running this brew of his with Delvers, Stoneforge Mystics and True-Name Nemesis but without the red splash.

Early in the game we just both cantrip. He fails to find a threat, but a probe shows me he has quite a bit of counter magic in his hand. On turn 3 he plays a Rest in Peace. I'm sculpting a hand to win naturally. Eventually we get to the following scenario:

I probe my opponent and see this hand:

]


I pass the turn and my opponent draws and plays a Ponder. He keeps the cards on top and draws and plays a Meddling Mage naming Infernal Tutor. My opponent is at 17 life from fetching during the early cantripping rounds. He passes the turn with one open mana source (a Tundra).

I'm holding a full grip and draw my 8th card which is a (almost) dud Past in Flames. I have 3 lands in play as well as one Lotus Petal. I look at his board of Meddling Mage and Rest in Peace and look at my sheet of paper with his hand of 2x Force, 2x Pierce, 1x Daze and I think to myself "huh... guess I actually have a chance to win now through all of this".

My hand is:

Dark Ritual
Cabal Ritual
Cabal Ritual
Lotus Petal
Lotus Petal
Massacre
Tendrils of Agony
Past in Flames

I wasn't quite sure how to sequence this although I knew I was going to want to play a Massacre early to draw out the counterspell I needed to get me to the storm count I needed.

I started out by tapping 1 of my 3 lands and casting Dark Ritual. Storm 1, BBB floating.

He thought for a while and let it resolve.

I then thought long and hard, really making it seem like I was weak and then played the Massacre for free due to him having Tundra. Storm 2.

He thought for a little bit and then forced, pitching Daze, dropping to 16 life. Storm 3. This left him with Force, Pierce, Pierce in hand and still 1 untapped blue source.

I then played Cabal Ritual, Cabal Ritual. Storm 5, BBBBB floating.

I then played both Lotus Petals. Storm 7. I now had, BBBBB, 3 Lotus Petals and 2 untapped lands.

I then cracked a petal for R and used BBBR to cast my second to last card in hand: Past in Flames. Storm 8, BB floating. My opponent looked befuddled. He stared at his Rest in Peace and after a few seconds let it resolve.

I then used the last BB and tapped my last 2 lands and cast Tendrils. Storm 9. He sat there for a while, looking at his Rest in Peace, his Meddling Mage and his Force, Pierce, Pierce hand. Then looked at his life pad showing 16 life and at my 2 uncracked Lotus Petals ready to pay for the 1 pierce... He pierced anyway and I cracked the petals to pay. He then extended his hand I nearly screamed! I felt so fucking buzzed winning through that and I really felt like the deck proved its strength.

[Dia_Bot]

Congratz man.
What list/SB did you play at the event? A stock non-Burning Wish UBr with 2 Tendrils on side?

[Quasim0ff]

That is pretty insane, very(!) well sequenced plays.

[nevilshute]

Thanks guys!

[lordofthepit]

I then used the last BB and tapped my last 2 lands and cast Tendrils. Storm 9. He sat there for a while, looking at his Rest in Peace, his Meddling Mage and his Force, Pierce, Pierce hand. Then looked at his life pad showing 16 life and at my 2 uncracked Lotus Petals ready to pay for the 1 pierce... He pierced anyway and I cracked the petals to pay. He then extended his hand I nearly screamed! I felt so fucking buzzed winning through that and I really felt like the deck proved its strength.

Awesome.

I haven't actually gotten the natural Tendrils line to work very often (i.e. not since three years ago when I last played the deck and would occasionally board an additional 2-3 copies of Tendrils in).

With the newer lists (after Past in Flames and Gitaxian Probe), drawing Tendrils has always been miserable. I often sequence my early turns aggressively with my cantrips, including Probes. Then I draw into the Tendrils without expecting it, and it feels absolutely miserable. The options are as follows:

1) Dig aggressively for a Brainstorm, which is hard if I've spent a lot of cantrips already.
2) Wait a few turns to get back up to 8 cards in hand, preferably with several cantrips, which is also hard if I've spend cantrips early.
3) Go off with Infernal Tutor + LED (or Ad Nauseam) anyway, making sure to use a Past in Flames line (which only works without grave hate from your opponent).
4) Run a ghetto tutor chain where you can't go hellbent, thereby crippling you into using Infernal Tutors to find Dark Ritual or Cabal Ritual.
5) Hope to hit (or otherwise dig into) the one-of Past in Flames. This is hard to find, but it's easy mode if you have any rituals at all in hand.

It's tough for me to assess what strategy to use. Am I supposed to be holding back cantrips early just in case I accidentally draw Tendrils? That feels terrible.