[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Morden]

yesterday got smashed again against eldrazi and eldrazi-mud......it's incredibile, also after a mulligan to 5 (g1, so with less hate) I cannot win. It's enough a thorn, it gives them time to rebuild the hands, and when we are ready to storm over the tax effects, trinisphere/thought not seer/random bad things come.
That's why I'm starting to think about the doomsday/shelldock isle sideboard plan..... in fact, the deck becomes a one spell combo basically. You lose half life, but if you play correct and with a bit of luck you can cast emrakul the same turn you play doomsday. It seems a good plan against everyone....maybe not against who plays karakas or fast combo.
Why not to play it?

[nevilshute]

yesterday got smashed again against eldrazi and eldrazi-mud......it's incredibile, also after a mulligan to 5 (g1, so with less hate) I cannot win. It's enough a thorn, it gives them time to rebuild the hands, and when we are ready to storm over the tax effects, trinisphere/thought not seer/random bad things come.
That's why I'm starting to think about the doomsday/shelldock isle sideboard plan..... in fact, the deck becomes a one spell combo basically. You lose half life, but if you play correct and with a bit of luck you can cast emrakul the same turn you play doomsday. It seems a good plan against everyone....maybe not against who plays karakas or fast combo.
Why not to play it?

Shelldock enters tapped so baring some very unlikely scenarios you will never resolve doomsday and cast emrakul in the same turn.

It's not the worst plan but is very vulnerable to Wasteland which some Eldrazi lists play. My main issue is that I don't think it is actually strong enough vs miracles. And it taking up 6 SB slots is a tall order.

[Morden]

so stupid.....I forgot about the fact that isle enters tapped. well, at this point things change, yes. Also miracle can have the time to prepare/find the terminus, and isle can be wasteland'd. I liked the idea to unify the sideboard......Miracle at the moment is "good" with confidant/extirpate, the problem is only eldrazi for me. I'd play thing in the ice, but if i have to dedicate 3/4 slots in my SB only for ONE matchup, they must be PERFECT, and titi isn't.

[Sloshthedark]

ok so let's everyone who keep track of their results post their Eldrazi lifetime score:

I'm 6-6 atm (only 2 times Op did not know what I was playing btw.)

with 6 discard, 4-5 answers, EtW, 2-3 ToA, no AdN ... because I don't think it's that bad, it's stupid (like most of the non U MUs) but let's distinguish between "the MU is miserable because I lost without casting a spell" (which haha I know very well from the other side of the table) or I luckily won, dodged all this and that (yeah that's what they get for playing pile of crap I'd be embarassed to admit owning) and let's talk strictly winrate... I've talked with at least to ppl who had roughtly the same winrate recently so post yours and prove me wrong! Because my score with Merfolk is two times worse - does it feel like bad MU? hell no, so is my winrate 25%? no sir! in last 12 months it's fuckin 23,07%! ...

[Jonathan Alexander]

I am 4-10 against Eldrazi and 1-3 against Eldrazi & Taxes.

[thefringthing]

I'm interested in input on this unorthodox list I put together to combat a very Miraculous and Stonebladey local metagame.

4 Infernal Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam

4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay

1 Rain of Filth
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal

3 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea

Sideboard has some stuff to speed up (more Chrome Moxen) and combat specific non-Miracles/Stoneblade stuff that I can expect to play against like Goblins and D&T.

I'm really unsure about the maindeck Chrome Mox, which is a sort of hedge to try to keep the Abrupt Decays from ruining Ad Nauseam percentages, and the manabase (I don't have any Catacombses handy).

[Jonathan Alexander]

I honestly don't think either of these matchups needs any extra work before sideboarding. With 2 Past in Flames / 2 Tendrils / 1 Empty / 2 Top I am at 75% game one against Miracles. I did win one or two games because of Flooded Strands and Tops though, making my opponents think they were playing the mirror.

[nevilshute]

New batch of videos https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...KAcsLaPFjrFDhg

[CabalTherapy]

New batch of videos https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...KAcsLaPFjrFDhg

Regarding your Enchantress guy: I would have done the same: There is no action in his hand and why not trolling you with some beatdown for 0, tapping out because Enchantress usually doesnt play any stack interaction. Nonetheless, nice videos.

[nevilshute]

Thanks Robert. That guy was such a troll

[thefringthing]

Enchantress guy was clearly playing around Asphyxiate. Obviously you don't play much Legacy.

[nevilshute]

Enchantress guy was clearly playing around Asphyxiate. Obviously you don't play much Legacy.

That must be it! Now I've just got to learn why he kept tapping his Serra's Sanctum (with no enchantments on board).

[Morden]

That must be it! Now I've just got to learn why he kept tapping his Serra's Sanctum (with no enchantments on board).

Asphyxiate doesn't work against shroud

Martin, what do you think about empty MD? Looking at your last playlist, I saw that on 6 matches you never won a game thanks to it. I like the list, in my local meta full of eldrazi empty MD is interesting, but removing the nauseam seems a big loss to me, a loss that can't be replaced by empty.

[Ronald Deuce]

2-1 again today at the local. Lost to Mav; he ripped a topdeck Gaddock Teeg in game 1, and in game 2, he had redundant Thalias and Thoughtseized me when I had a Disfigure in hand. I couldn't find a second answer.

Not sure what to do about this. It's fine to say "we're faster than they are," but I've learned that's something that doesn't happen every game. Starting to consider sideboard Massacre again because he also landed a Mother of Runes, so none of the hate I had in the deck would've broken through even if I'd found it. The hatebear matchups just feel really bad with all the redundancy they can bring to the table now.

It's worth pointing out that two weeks ago I beat the same guy with Empty the Warrens in games 2 and 3, but it's feeling more and more like a toss-up matchup because they've got so many cards that can zero us if we aren't running at our absolute best. It feels like I need an excellent hand, but they just need a hand that isn't abominable.

[JamieW89]

Decided to test a Doomsday sb last weekend (4 Decay, 1 Green dual, 3 DoN, 1 Massacre, 6 DD slots with EtW+AdN, 14 Lands and a Chrome Mox main) for a change. Both losses to the same guy (Noloam for the MTGO players) on Miracles despite all the sb cards. Didn't play particularly well, and was a bit unlucky in the final (he found Terminus in 1 blind card g1 for 15 tokens, and I mulled to 5 postboard). The mox was pretty weak in some matchups, but was key in g3 versus the DnT/Eldrazi deck in round-5. Doubt I'll be playing the DD package again any time soon, because multiple Tendrils are just a lot more space efficient, so a bit sad I couldn't at least resolve one Doomsday.

R1: UR Delver 2-0 (Had the 1-off Tendrils in my opener both games, and won with it. He misstimed his counters in g2 though, and could have won with his FoW,FoW,Fluster,Fluster,U card,U card hand)
R2: 4 Horsemen 2-0 (apparantly legal now with a different wincon)
R3: Miracles 0-2 (He went turn-1 eot brainstorm, t2 CB and had put a 0 on top instead of a 1, that basicly took away my remaining hope of a fast kill.)
R4: Jund 2-1 (He scried to the top in g3, and never played that card despite keeping a 1 lander. Because of this I had him on exactly Surgical, also because of his discard choices. Turned out to just be a land, and almost lost because of it)
R5: Eldrazi 'n Taxes (no Chalice/Spheres though) 2-1
SF: Jund 2-0 (I go t2 brainstorm, dark rit, duress intending to probe, cracking LED in response after to Ad Nauseam, but he reveals double Surgical. He never casts the 2nd surgical though, so I somehow steal the game)
F: Miracles 0-2

An interesting spot in g1 of the finals vs Miracles:
I have a Cabal Therapy on the stack, with the ability to make 16 goblins if everything resolves after this. He casts brainstorm in response with a Force in hand and no further blue cards or open mana, and a top on the battlefield. What blue card do you name after the brainstorm is done resolving? I didn't know his exact list, but it seemed to be somewhat streamlined with a number of Mentor and Ponder main. I also heard him talk about Predict between the rounds, but wasn't sure if he ran them or not. He has played ANT for a long time, and should be quite familiar with the mindgames.

[Morden]

Decided to test a Doomsday sb last weekend (4 Decay, 1 Green dual, 3 DoN, 1 Massacre, 6 DD slots with EtW+AdN, 14 Lands and a Chrome Mox main) for a change. Both losses to the same guy (Noloam for the MTGO players) on Miracles despite all the sb cards. Didn't play particularly well, and was a bit unlucky in the final (he found Terminus in 1 blind card g1 for 15 tokens, and I mulled to 5 postboard). The mox was pretty weak in some matchups, but was key in g3 versus the DnT/Eldrazi deck in round-5. Doubt I'll be playing the DD package again any time soon, because multiple Tendrils are just a lot more space efficient, so a bit sad I couldn't at least resolve one Doomsday.

R1: UR Delver 2-0 (Had the 1-off Tendrils in my opener both games, and won with it. He misstimed his counters in g2 though, and could have won with his FoW,FoW,Fluster,Fluster,U card,U card hand)
R2: 4 Horsemen 2-0 (apparantly legal now with a different wincon)
R3: Miracles 0-2 (He went turn-1 eot brainstorm, t2 CB and had put a 0 on top instead of a 1, that basicly took away my remaining hope of a fast kill.)
R4: Jund 2-1 (He scried to the top in g3, and never played that card despite keeping a 1 lander. Because of this I had him on exactly Surgical, also because of his discard choices. Turned out to just be a land, and almost lost because of it)
R5: Eldrazi 'n Taxes (no Chalice/Spheres though) 2-1
SF: Jund 2-0 (I go t2 brainstorm, dark rit, duress intending to probe, cracking LED in response after to Ad Nauseam, but he reveals double Surgical. He never casts the 2nd surgical though, so I somehow steal the game)
F: Miracles 0-2

An interesting spot in g1 of the finals vs Miracles:
I have a Cabal Therapy on the stack, with the ability to make 16 goblins if everything resolves after this. He casts brainstorm in response with a Force in hand and no further blue cards or open mana, and a top on the battlefield. What blue card do you name after the brainstorm is done resolving? I didn't know his exact list, but it seemed to be somewhat streamlined with a number of Mentor and Ponder main. I also heard him talk about Predict between the rounds, but wasn't sure if he ran them or not. He has played ANT for a long time, and should be quite familiar with the mindgames.

how many times did you win thanks to ETW?

[JamieW89]

how many times did you win thanks to ETW?

Only once preboard. But I cast it three times in preboard games (once as a desperation attempt through a Thalia but not for enough, and in the final where I was quite favored after resolving it but still lost).

[Dr_D]

I've read every recent page of this thread and I can't seem to grasp what the final consensus was on Daze. I'm asking because I'll be playing a tournament on saturday with a completely unknown metagame, and I'm not sure what maindeck I want to run. I really wanted to try Daze in an actual event, but I'm not sure if it's the best to run them if I have absolutely no read on the metagame. So what was the final consensus, is the card decent enough in the maindeck?

[Morden]

Only once preboard. But I cast it three times in preboard games (once as a desperation attempt through a Thalia but not for enough, and in the final where I was quite favored after resolving it but still lost).

That's the point. A lot of time I found myself near to victory with goblins, but there was often something that went wrong. 3 creatures */2 are enough to stop the horde, and this deck is not so fast like TES to throw them on the board turn 1-2.
Yes, I think I will take it out from MB.

[Morden]

I've read every recent page of this thread and I can't seem to grasp what the final consensus was on Daze. I'm asking because I'll be playing a tournament on saturday with a completely unknown metagame, and I'm not sure what maindeck I want to run. I really wanted to try Daze in an actual event, but I'm not sure if it's the best to run them if I have absolutely no read on the metagame. So what was the final consensus, is the card decent enough in the maindeck?

ahahahhaah well, it's like the petition debate . Someone loves it, others hate it.......try!! My experience: I had 3 daze MB, I removed them for another discard because:

-consistency/linearity: this deck is good at discarding cards. If you want more control of the game, keep on this way. Otherwise, add cantrips, tutor or other.
-daze is useless on the draw (as discards, ok......so why add them?)
-half of the power of this card in THIS deck is that no one expects it. If you reveal it after a nauseam, you loose this advantage G2/G3.
-it's a bad topdeck. Drawing a discard late game is better in general, you can use it to protect your storm against counterspell or to simply +1 the storm counter. Yes, also daze, but I would not reveal it if my opponent doesn't know its existance just to increase the storm counter.
-if your meta is unknow, discard spells are the best way to know who you are facing. In my local meta I know that if a tundra hits the field I'm playing against miracle...... but it could be a stoneblade for you.

Don't get me wrong, daze saved me sometimes, maybe I will use them again, but AT THE MOMENT, in MY meta, is pretty bad.