[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Togores]

My thoughts where that after ponder if O shuflle I have 1 less card and my deck is randomized again.
If i ponder and shullfe then brainstorm let me see the 5 first cards of my deck.

[JamieW89]

I played another local, but didn't have the greatest day. Did make top-8 (8/8 in small swiss events this year) but managed to lose in the swiss and quarters to lands. Won both preboard games, lost all 4 postboard:
swissg2: I open a t1 ad nauseam with petals and no lands. He gambles, and plays Chalice@0. I don't find lands.
swissg3: I open on a cantrip and have a good chance to win on t2 after seeing his hand which I don't think can interact except for CR->Bog unless he topdecks a mox. However he opens his turn-1 on land,crop rotate it into a ancient tomb(!) which casts chalice@1. That buys him enough time to beat me.
QFg2: He has chalice@0, chalice@1 and sphere on turn-2. I have a Hurkyl's in hand, but struggle to get the mana. Eventually I have fetch,fetch,dual in play and he wastes me in his 2nd main, I float a mana and he almost casts loam (I'd have bounced his stuff and won on my turn) but reads me and passes priority so I can't bounce. I have to go for it on my own turn a bit later, playing a 3rd land, bouncing his stuff, probing and then brainstorming from a petal needing to hit either LP+DR or a LED (I have LED,CR,IT,Probe in hand, he was low enough for led,led,gp->it->toa to work) but I don't hit. I am 1 mana short of playing through his sphere and chalice@1 (he didn't replay chalice@0) on a later turn.
QFg3: He opens on turn-1 sphere, I duress another sphere, and then decay both the first sphere and a confidant. At this point I have some lands and a hand full of mana. Fastforward about 8 turns and my hand is Hurkyl's Recall and mana. Not a cantrip or business spell found, and he manages to assemble his token.

[Sloshthedark]

Preordain, Ponder and then Brainstorm. Yeah.
Once you free your mind and let the Storm go through you, you don't need formulas.

The formula is actually very interesting, I'd think a lesser number

usualy you play the stuff by heart, but some situations can change the equation like having 5B3U in that situation, would you still start with preordain?

I played another local, but didn't have the greatest day. Did make top-8 (8/8 in small swiss events this year) but managed to lose in the swiss and quarters to lands. Won both preboard games, lost all 4 postboard:
swissg2: I open a t1 ad nauseam with petals and no lands. He gambles, and plays Chalice@0. I don't find lands.
swissg3: I open on a cantrip and have a good chance to win on t2 after seeing his hand which I don't think can interact except for CR->Bog unless he topdecks a mox. However he opens his turn-1 on land,crop rotate it into a ancient tomb(!) which casts chalice@1. That buys him enough time to beat me.
QFg2: He has chalice@0, chalice@1 and sphere on turn-2. I have a Hurkyl's in hand, but struggle to get the mana. Eventually I have fetch,fetch,dual in play and he wastes me in his 2nd main, I float a mana and he almost casts loam (I'd have bounced his stuff and won on my turn) but reads me and passes priority so I can't bounce. I have to go for it on my own turn a bit later, playing a 3rd land, bouncing his stuff, probing and then brainstorming from a petal needing to hit either LP+DR or a LED (I have LED,CR,IT,Probe in hand, he was low enough for led,led,gp->it->toa to work) but I don't hit. I am 1 mana short of playing through his sphere and chalice@1 (he didn't replay chalice@0) on a later turn.
QFg3: He opens on turn-1 sphere, I duress another sphere, and then decay both the first sphere and a confidant. At this point I have some lands and a hand full of mana. Fastforward about 8 turns and my hand is Hurkyl's Recall and mana. Not a cantrip or business spell found, and he manages to assemble his token.

SG3 wow, some tech here!

[TokugawaEdo]

Anyone have a strong opinion about rain of filth? Thinking of either cutting 7th discard or a CR for one.

[raid]

Overall u can´t deny that it´s a pretty strong card. More often than not it is a defacto 5th dark ritual with neat synergy with cabal ritauls threshold, but of course by itself very all in. If u want to try it, I would recommend to cut a discard spell for it.

[Jonathan Alexander]

Anyone have a strong opinion about rain of filth? Thinking of either cutting 7th discard or a CR for one.

I have not played without Rain since 2011. I played 2 for a while and I'm currently considering cutting the third Cabal Ritual for the second Rain again. Is that a strong enough opinion for you?

[Sloshthedark]

Anyone have a strong opinion about rain of filth? Thinking of either cutting 7th discard or a CR for one.

A lot of people like it here... for me as the upsides start at 4+ lands the card makes no sense replacing CR in mosts lists, as a 9th ritual its unnecessary,so it's a consideration for the 3ToA builds but should stay in the DDFT area imo

[JamieW89]

A lot of people like it here... for me as the upsides start at 4+ lands the card makes no sense replacing CR in mosts lists, as a 9th ritual its unnecessary,so it's a consideration for the 3ToA builds but should stay in the DDFT area imo

I'm inclined to agree with Slosh, it has only ever been great for me in DD lists. However, I did win a game yesterday (I had Rain in the 4th CRit slot to try it out once more) when "B, sac 2 lands: add BB" was exactly what I needed. Another interaction that was useful in thinking, but didn't actually happen, was casting Rain in response to my only black source being ported in my upkeep against lands.

[iamajellydonut]

Lodestone Golem

While this is brought up in the most recent two pages, what the hell is the actual plan against Lodestone Golem (and kin)? I have limited experience playing against MUD, but Krosan Grip just seems gross and counteractive against Golem seeing as how you would have to burn through mana sources in order to jam it out. Am I just looking at it wrong? I've always just loaded up on Decays and Vapors and hoped I was either faster or able to power through.

[KevinH]

I'm pretty sure the gameplan against MUD is to just dodge it. I side in Decay, Chain, and Empty if I have it. You pretty much just want to go faster. It's not worth having sideboard slots dedicated specifically to MUD since nobody really plays that deck anyways.

[Togores]

In every legacy gp I have played I have always missed my day 2 due to ALWAYS PLAYING against F****ing Mud.

Idk why that 1% of the field is there to just play against me and beat me out of the event...

[Pelikanudo]

Round 2 tes
G1 mull to 5 loose the turn I can pif him to dead
G2 long game he ends up making 18 goblins and atacking.
I can pif loop but im 1 storm short with 6 black mana. So I have to get with the tutor a led for blue having ponder, preordain and brainstorm. I played 1st ponder then preordain. But IM NOT SURE IF THAT WAS RIGHT AND MY ODS FINDING ANOTHER TUTOR OR THE 1 TOA WAS HIGHER IN THE OTHER WAY.

.

Hope this helps... storm mate

I just don't agree about what people in here says...

having BBBB BB and needing to fetch for LED with I.T. you are in the following scenario:
UUUBBBB
thefore the cantrip among Ponder, B.S. and Preordain which gives you the most chances of getting one of the 3 I.T. left in the base with UUBBBB remaining is Ponder, because the next 2 cantrips played lets you with only UBBBB and BBBB being able to cast only the 2 Tendrils and not the 3 I.T.

Evaluating the other case which is playing Preodain first you could:
a) Find LED or C.R. or D.R. to going on casting Ponder and next B.S. in order to beeing able to cast I.T.
b) Find I.T. to win
you wil need to evaluate for case a) which are the chances of finding one of them (have in mind you already played some of them which involve more complicated statistics calculations...) , however you are decreasing the chances of finding the I.T. because you used 1 Cantrip for setting up a spell in case you chose one of these 3 cards.

The only problem I see with playing Ponder first is that once you have suffled, the card you draw can not be D.R. or C.R. or LED however this is solved again by playing Preordain and next B.S.

This is my opinion and I will do this every day of the week, but maybe I'm wrong. I am a programmer but not mathematician

Was nice to win you Storm Mate! ;)

[TokugawaEdo]

Can I get any tips on the miracles match up? I usually try to just sculpt a resilient hand with AD and stuff but they always seem to land like top, 2 counterbalance with force up. Am I giving them TOO much time? I'm currently playing a list with Ad Nauseam and a second PiF with 1 TOA mainboard. I side +4 AD, +1 Grip, +2 Swarm, -4 LP, -1 CR, -1 Ponder, -1 GP. Don't know if this is 100% correct and I'm thinking about if I want another grip in my board and maybe an empty. The list i played against today also was running 2 surgical in the board and would hit my AD when I would use them on counter balance them. Maybe I was just playing them too early and opening myself up to it but idk, how popular is surgical in the boards of miracles?

[wonderPreaux]

Can I get any tips on the miracles match up? I usually try to just sculpt a resilient hand with AD and stuff but they always seem to land like top, 2 counterbalance with force up. Am I giving them TOO much time? I'm currently playing a list with Ad Nauseam and a second PiF with 1 TOA mainboard. I side +4 AD, +1 Grip, +2 Swarm, -4 LP, -1 CR, -1 Ponder, -1 GP. Don't know if this is 100% correct and I'm thinking about if I want another grip in my board and maybe an empty. The list i played against today also was running 2 surgical in the board and would hit my AD when I would use them on counter balance them. Maybe I was just playing them too early and opening myself up to it but idk, how popular is surgical in the boards of miracles?

One of the issues you have to accept is that, without something like a Top of your own, you can't improve your card quality in the face of CB. I've lost a few games where they opponent went SDT > CB > Clique and I could never recover, or when the opponent just flops Top > CB > CB with FoW backup. If the opponent wants to invest more in gimmicks to beat combo, Extractions, Canonist, etc they can definitely just have way too many relevant cards.

One thing you can do is try a 3/2 split of Decay/Grip, instead of 4/1, to reduce the impact of Extraction/Meddling Mage (warning: Ad Nauseam becomes obviously less stellar, but I assume that you're just using it as a draw-7 since you're boarding out all the petals). You can also try cards like Pyroblast or Extirpate to increase your ability to fight CB/Top and other problem cards (I believe Slosh has had some success there).

[Narcind]

Inkmoth nexus
Lodestone Golem
Relic of Progenitus and similar

Is this really relevant though? I personally run 3 decays and 0 grips because I don't think grip is very good at all. It's not coming in vs omnitell or infect since the plan is to just race them, and to have it vs hatecards like relic, nihil spellbomb, tormod's crypt and such seems so cornercase that it's not really worth a sideboard slot, especially since you can kind of do the same thing with chain of vapor by forcing them to crack it.

Then I suppose krosan grip might be pretty good vs MUD, but honestly, if you expect to see a lot of MUD, wouldn't it be better to just not play storm since the matchup is so dreadful, or if you really do want to play storm, sideboard hurkyl's recall/rebuild instead of krosan grips?

That's just what I think anyway, maybe I'm missing something.

[CabalTherapy]

Is this really relevant though? I personally run 3 decays and 0 grips because I don't think grip is very good at all. It's not coming in vs omnitell or infect since the plan is to just race them, and to have it vs hatecards like relic, nihil spellbomb, tormod's crypt and such seems so cornercase that it's not really worth a sideboard slot, especially since you can kind of do the same thing with chain of vapor by forcing them to crack it.

Then I suppose krosan grip might be pretty good vs MUD, but honestly, if you expect to see a lot of MUD, wouldn't it be better to just not play storm since the matchup is so dreadful, or if you really do want to play storm, sideboard hurkyl's recall/rebuild instead of krosan grips?

That's just what I think anyway, maybe I'm missing something.

Yes, you are missing the fact that Slosh enumerated different targets which cannot be hit by Decay or where Grip is simply the better answer. It does not mean that anyone would bring them in against those cards.

[Narcind]

Yes, you are missing the fact that Slosh enumerated different targets which cannot be hit by Decay or where Grip is simply the better answer. It does not mean that anyone would bring them in against those cards.

Well yeah, of course. I probably worded that badly. It was more of a general question to the people who run krosan grip in their sideboard, and why they do it.

[Jonathan Alexander]

i personally run 3 decays and 0 grips because i don't think grip is very good at all.

what?

[Sloshthedark]

While this is brought up in the most recent two pages, what the hell is the actual plan against Lodestone Golem (and kin)? I have limited experience playing against MUD, but Krosan Grip just seems gross and counteractive against Golem seeing as how you would have to burn through mana sources in order to jam it out. Am I just looking at it wrong? I've always just loaded up on Decays and Vapors and hoped I was either faster or able to power through.

I think MUD is very dieroll dependant but ok (if the MU is known its no fun) , due to nature of the deck it craps on itself quite hard and discard sends them to topdeck mode, clearly if they just have it you could insta lose but that happens with our deck too so why complain (their "combo" is more difficult to have)... the deck is too minor for me to care, if you have it localy it might be worth some slots... I think Grip is fine in the MU has some ups and downs like CoV depends on your mix

Is this really relevant though? I personally run 3 decays and 0 grips because I don't think grip is very good at all. It's not coming in vs omnitell or infect since the plan is to just race them, and to have it vs hatecards like relic, nihil spellbomb, tormod's crypt and such seems so cornercase that it's not really worth a sideboard slot, especially since you can kind of do the same thing with chain of vapor by forcing them to crack it.

Then I suppose krosan grip might be pretty good vs MUD, but honestly, if you expect to see a lot of MUD, wouldn't it be better to just not play storm since the matchup is so dreadful, or if you really do want to play storm, sideboard hurkyl's recall/rebuild instead of krosan grips?

That's just what I think anyway, maybe I'm missing something.

It is, obv. you don't board it against those niche cards but sometimes you get something better for that +1 mana, the biggest upside is clearly SDT, but some Miracles pack Relic time to time as well as Merfolk, Golem is valid target, I do board it vs. Infect unlike AD

[Narcind]

what?

what

It is, obv. you don't board it against those niche cards but sometimes you get something better for that +1 mana, the biggest upside is clearly SDT, but some Miracles pack Relic time to time as well as Merfolk, Golem is valid target, I do board it vs. Infect unlike AD

I suppose so, and I agree with not boarding decay vs infect, though I probably wouldn't bring in grip either, though that might be wrong on my part. I suppose it just feels like, to me at least, that decay tends to be a better grip most of the time, though grip clearly does have a few advantages.