[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[CabalTherapy]

Decided to try ANT because I really couldn't believe I lost to JUND with TES last time.

Gratulations, you have chosen the right deck.

I have just taken down a 4 rounds tournament here in Berlin. Played my usual 60 with one Grim main.

Round 1: NicFit
I can cantrip into the win on turn 3 or 4 while he does nothing relevant. In the second game, I manage to assamble the perfect hand and win via PiF.
1-0

Round 2: UR StandstillDelver
A highly disruptive deck with Stifle and a lot of counter. In game 1, he had 10 cards in hand due to Standstill but no mana left, and just FoW and Misdirection ready to cast. I went for it without having the kill in hand, but after a resolved DRit and a Ponder, I eventually find a LED and won from there with Duress and some more Rituals into Tendrils.
2-0

Round 3: Miracles
What an annoying deck. He scoops as I therapy his 2 CB, and leave him with only a Terminus in hand on turn 2. Then, we struggled through the second match as I went for Extirpate>Counterbalance. We both stalled the board until the turns where I resolved a Tendrils for 10 lifedrain and he was unable to kill me with Snapcaster and Clique. Lucky.
3-0

Round 4: Burg Delver
I was the only one with 3-0 and had to face another hard MU, which I lost 1:2. In the first match, I was able to discard all his relevant cards and just showed him my perfectly sculpted hand.
The other 2 games my opponent did what Burg Delver does against combo. He disrupted me with Wastelands, Stifles and had a plethora of counter in hand. My Swarms, of which I thought could turn around the games, unfortunately got bolted. Null Rod is also a pretty decent card in this MU.
3-1

Lucky me, my opp-score is high enough for the first place.
Today's best play: I played Venser (1off in SB) and bounced an attacking Snappcaster Mage with RiP in play in order to prevent damage against Miracles.

[Tom T]

Hi dudes!

Usually I play TES, but ever since BUG-delver is the most played deck in my region I started playing Miracles again. Despite the fact I enjoy Miracles a lot, I miss the extra time in between rounds and blowing peoples heads up with some turn 1/2 kills. It's way more satisfying and it makes me more proud of myself

So, I also love playing Sensei's Divining Top and it's shenanigans in storm.

The list I'll be playing:

Maindeck

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Duress
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Preordain
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Badlands
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
4 Young Pyromancer


Now, my question is; Is Young Pyromancer still good against Miracles or has it already spread like wildfire and is everyone prepared? I'm playing in the Benelux. And if not, I think bringing Swarms in against them is also pretty bad (if they're playing Swords instead of Terminus as answer). If that's the case I'll switch the Pyromancers for 3 Pithing Needle and a Notion Thief or 4 Pithing Needle. This is to combat SDT, as it's the most resilient card Miracles has against us.

So, what do you guys think?

~Tom

[CabalTherapy]

Now, my question is; Is Young Pyromancer still good against Miracles or has it already spread like wildfire and is everyone prepared? I'm playing in the Benelux. And if not, I think bringing Swarms in against them is also pretty bad (if they're playing Swords instead of Terminus as answer). If that's the case I'll switch the Pyromancers for 3 Pithing Needle and a Notion Thief or 4 Pithing Needle. This is to combat SDT, as it's the most resilient card Miracles has against us.

So, what do you guys think?

I can only speak about my local gaming area where the young Pyrodude was introduced to the ANT board, and where every Miracles player is aware of him. Consequently, not playing him in my meta is nice, although as the Miracles players will notice his absence, Pyrodude is a valid option again. Next-leveling into another level of next-leveling I would guess.

Additionally, I don't see Needle as a good card against Miracles naming Sensei's Divining Top because on the one hand your list contains 2 Tops main, and on the other hand as Top is a good card against Miracles, you are simply going to weaken your list. Presumably moving 2 Tops to the side in favor of 4 Needles in order to fight the enemy's Tops sounds really weak.

[Ricca84]

Hi guys,

about BUG/Team America MU I agree with you that is probably the worst matchup in the meta with Miracles ( Reanimator does not exist anymore). This is because ANT has some trouble with deck that are able to attack it from different side. In this case we have to fight vs:

- hand distruption
- counterspells ( except FoW and maybe some flusterstorms they are all tax counters ).
- soft grave hate
- a consistent, but not so fast race

in this scenario we have to figure out a good side out/in.

my personal idea starting from this sideboard (that seems to be too solid):

3 xantid
3 chain of vapor
2 Sensei's divining top
1 ETW
2 Flusterstorm
4 Abrupt Decay

is the following:

+2 xantid
+2 Sensei's divining top
+1 Flusterstorm

-2 discard
-2 preordain
-1 cabal ritual



but i'm not really convinced about. Is worth to upgrade discards into xantid in this MU ( all abrupt decay will be sided out or not?)

any comment is welcome

:)

[CabalTherapy]

+2 xantid
+2 Sensei's divining top
+1 Flusterstorm

-2 discard
-2 preordain
-1 cabal ritual

Xantid Swarm is pure card-disadvantage.
Top is very good, while Flusterstorm is not needed in this MU. It ideally trades with a Hymn.

Preordain hast to stay in because it is a decent cantrip, and that is what you need against discard.


But: All these things are already written down, thus a backscroll or whatever is not that difficult.

[Togores]

Lately in all the scg opens there has been no ant nauseam on top16 apart from bryant cook playing tes (he is also one of the best stormers) Im just wondering why the deck seems to me soo good in europe and here is shown it just rapes all day and there it makes nothing.

Does no one plays it?
Does no good players play it?

I would love some hinsighy from usual us players.

Thanks

[Lemnear]

Lately in all the scg opens there has been no ant nauseam on top16 apart from bryant cook playing tes (he is also one of the best stormers) Im just wondering why the deck seems to me soo good in europe and here is shown it just rapes all day and there it makes nothing.

Does no one plays it?
Does no good players play it?

I would love some hinsighy from usual us players.

Thanks

The average SCG grinders are not known to work themselves into the depths of storm as most are Multi-format gamers. You can't blame them for picking "easier" decks like Delver and SneakShow which doesn't fall apart if their pilot makes a mistake.

[iamajellydonut]

Does no one plays it?
Does no good players play it?

Both. I can only remember playing against ANT once at a major event. I lost anyway, but he killed himself in one game with an Ad Nauseum when he had lethal and then almost lost another when he thought repeating Chain of Vapor increased storm count.

Even at a local level, it's rarely played and the people who do sometimes throw it together have no vested interest in the deck.

[DaGarver]

my personal idea starting from this sideboard (that seems to be too solid):

3 xantid
3 chain of vapor
2 Sensei's divining top
1 ETW
2 Flusterstorm
4 Abrupt Decay

is the following:

+2 xantid
+2 Sensei's divining top
+1 Flusterstorm

-2 discard
-2 preordain
-1 cabal ritual

The issue is that BUG Delver presents a consistent and fast clock (you are effectively dead on turn 5) while attacking you from every possible angle. Your cards in hand, your graveyard, and your mana sources are all under attack. This is why it is so good at posting results: it beats the tar out of combo decks.

Honestly, your best bet is probably something like a Leyline of Sanctity or a Defense Grid. The easy way to win is to Storm out on early turns when they can't race an EtW for 10 gobbos or just kill them on the spot. The former scenario is basically game over if you get it on the play. Their only answer is Golgari Charm, and they have to draw it.

I'm not sure if the matchup is even close to winnable outside of that scenario or getting lucky with their draws. I've been boarding for it like this:

Out: Ad Nauseam, Grim Tutor
In: 2 Chain of Vapor

You just have to go fast. That's the only way you're going to simultaneously beat their discard and countermagic.

Lately in all the scg opens there has been no ant nauseam on top16 apart from bryant cook playing tes (he is also one of the best stormers) Im just wondering why the deck seems to me soo good in europe and here is shown it just rapes all day and there it makes nothing.

Does no one plays it?
Does no good players play it?

I would love some hinsighy from usual us players.

Thanks

Everyone in the USA plays Delver. Delver eats combo decks alive, especially slow, grindy combo decks like this one.

The pilots also tend to be bad, but that's a different story.

[Togores]

Everyone in the USA plays Delver. Delver eats combo decks alive, especially slow, grindy combo decks like this one.

The pilots also tend to be bad, but that's a different story.

Thats not true. I havent lost to delever in a long long time playing storm apart to bug delever. I eat rug and patriot for breakfast. If you know your gameplan its really east to just headshot them all day.

[Namida]

Everyone in the USA plays Delver. Delver eats combo decks alive, especially slow, grindy combo decks like this one.

The pilots also tend to be bad, but that's a different story.

Being a Delver deck doesn't automatically make you butcher combo decks. In fact, I would say that the only Delver decks I have problems with are the ones that play discard. I contend that "The pilots tend to be bad" is probably the real culprit and not unrelated as you claim, because I feel that the Storm/nonblack Delver matchups tend to favor the more experienced player instead of the match being inherently lopsided in any direction.

[CabalTherapy]

Something like this for Delver MUs where UWR and Canadian are definitely positive MUs.

Difficult MU

Team America
Burg Delver
UWR Delver
Canadian

Easy MU

Again, I would like to point out that cutting business spells against Team America is not a good plan. A topdecked Ad Nauseam can win the game, and I don't want to miss it in this MU. It does not have to be a lethal draw, but some cards are usually enough to go from there, and blank their discard. A fast Ad Nauseam is also the win here, before they can land Null Rod, Shaman or play Hymn. The important point here is card advantage. To elaborate on that, Xantid Swarm for example is pure card-disadvantage against BUG because it does nothing during the turn it comes into play. Additionally, it has to survive one turn in order to create some kind of protection against the enemy's counterspells. However, BUG's disruption is divided into two: counter and discard, they may play Hymn to Tourach and destroy ANT's hand. On the other hand, I have to admit that Swarm may work sometimes. Try to seek for the highest card value against BUG without looking at a specific context, where Swarm or whatever may be better than a simple Preordain.

[Surfinbird]

Stormers, i've got a new idea for this deck and i'd like to know your opinion about it:

First of all i must say that i was tired of losing against deathrite shaman decks. This creature stopped our combo via Ad Nauseam (taking down our lifepoints) and via Past in flames (Ye, we can win with an extra ritual, but the most of the times getting them is really difficult because they're playing discard too...). Also, i don't like playing only 4 infernal tutors as bussines spells: Sometimes we lose simply to not finding one.

Considering this points, i've thought about the next idea (which is working the last days): RUNNING 3 PERSONAL TUTOR AND 1 ENTREAT THE ANGELS.

3 PERSONAL TUTOR:
- They will look for infernals, past in flames, discard spells or, in special cases, a ponder.

- In a PiF loop it works as an infernal tutor if we've got a cantrip in the grave. We can play personal tutor to PiF and go for the combo in the next turn or doing it in the same turn if we have enough mana and a cantrip. I have to point that this plan is awesome with Gitaxian Probe.

- With at least a Led or 2 petals, we can play the artifacts, search for an Entreat the Angels and play it in the next turn creating lots of angels.

- We can play some 1-ofs in the Sideboard like pyroclasm, massacre, void snare...

- It works pretty well with miracles... Reforge the soul could be tested against discard decks. Terminus and devastation tide against permanents. Temporal mastery doesn't sound to good to me, but who knows?

- Meddling Mages are worse against us.

1 ENTREAT THE ANGELS:

- A way to win that isn't stop by graveyard hate or having less than 10 lifepoints. Nothing more to say. It works fantastically with personal tutor allowing plays like: t1 duress, t2 personal tutor, LEds/Petals, t3 4+ angels.

- While running this card, drawing a personal tutor at the topdeck can win lots of games for us.

- Probably the way to go against Team America.

the list i've been testing is this one:

4 Polluted delta
3 Flooded strand
1 Marsh flats
2 underground sea
1 scrubland
1 tundra
1 island
1 swamp
1 volcanic island

4 Lion's eye diamond
4 Lotus petal
4 Dark ritual
4 Cabal ritual

4 Infernal tutor
3 Personal Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Tendrils of Agony

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Duress
2 Cabal therapy

SIDEBOARD:

3 Abrupt decay
2 Chain of vapor
2 Dread of night
2 Cabal therapy
1 tropical island
1 sensei's divining top
1 void snare
1 reforge the soul
1 Massacre
1 Pyroclasm

After some games, i've reached some conclusions:

- Probably we don't need the white lands. I've NEVER needed them and i've used Entreat the Angels an important number of times. I think this point is VERY IMPORTANT. I'll keep testing it to get a definitive conclusion in that point.

- More than one time i've wished to be playing Devastation tide when playing a Personal Tutor post SB. Maybe because i've played 2 times against MUD, not sure:)

- This works guys. Winning via entreat against Team America when they have shamans and delvers destroying our AN, PIF and Tutor chain (due to discard) ways is incredibly easy.

I still have to work a lot in this list. If we take the maximum power of personal tutor and its shenanigans we could ANT into a more devastating and difficult to stop deck.

[iamajellydonut]

That seems like an incredible and unnecessary amount of liability. I'm not really sure what more I can say about it beyond stating my reluctance to give it a whirl.

[CabalTherapy]

Stormers, i've got a new idea for this deck and i'd like to know your opinion about it:

I would like to recommend this card:

A neat addition to your board.

[phazonmutant]

Both. I can only remember playing against ANT once at a major event. I lost anyway, but he killed himself in one game with an Ad Nauseum when he had lethal and then almost lost another when he thought repeating Chain of Vapor increased storm count.

Even at a local level, it's rarely played and the people who do sometimes throw it together have no vested interest in the deck.

Agreed, although there are a few. Hunter Wilson and Eric Rill come to mind as grinders who play it well and somewhat often. Storm also the reputation of having a bunch of unwinnable common matchups like against Miracles and Delver decks.

Sunday I played in a 52-person tournament in Bellingham, WA for a judge foil Force of Will and duals. Made top 8, and should have made top 4 if not for a huge punt (more later). I built my list based on Carsten Kotter's build with some ideas from Sloshthedark,

// Maindeck
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Preordain

3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy

4 Infernal Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grapeshot

4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual

4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp

// Sideboard
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Empty the Warrens
3 Xantid Swarm
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei's Divining Top

So the notable things are Tops in the board - not new to the Europeans, but all my friends were surprised and skeptical - and the red creature death spells - Grapeshot and Bolt.
- I was pretty uncertain of the Tops before playing with this list, but I'm definitely sold on at least 2 in the board. They're quite good against the black decks and they also just have a surprising amount of utility like hellbent tricks or banking a mana to get another spell of the top of your library for free on the combo turn. I'm not certain about having 3 Tops, but I didn't play against Miracles (despite there being like 6+ decent/good pilots in the field). I wouldn't mind having 1 main, but not sure what to cut.
- Grapeshot was a solid role-player. I played a bunch of test games against UR burn, and a couple times he Probed me seeing Grapeshot and had to slow down his creature onslaught pretty drastically to play around it. Also it's tough to counter. Another time I used it and a naturally-drawn Tendrils to natural storm him with the 6 spells in my hand. The field had a bunch of Death and Taxes (6+), so was happy to have it there too.

R1 Elves 2-0
He borrowed the deck and didn't realize he had to keep a fast kill or disruption. Also I got 2 turn-2 kills on the draw. Declined on Grapeshoting his team for rub-ins, a clear punt. However it did give me time to take a dump and order a burrito the size of a baby's torso.

R2 Death & Taxes 2-1
We knew what each other were on. G1 he mulliganed to 5 looking for 2 lands and disruption. I kept a 7 with Probe-Therapy to take his Thalia, and killed him on like turn 3 or 4. He asked me how to sideboard between games and I told him Mother isn't bad. Why did I do that? G2 he mulliganed and I again sniped a Thalia, but he had Ports to lock down my basics while I bricked on lands. He drew a Canonist with active Mother in play the turn I was going to kill him by flashing back PiF with LEDs. My Lightning Bolt didn't have any Chain of Vapor friends. G3 he kept a hand with no disruption, I killed him on turn 3.

R3 Junk Depths 2-1
G1 he kept 6 lands, Vampire Hexmage. My Duress was sad. He drew Deathrite Shaman and made a 20/20 on turn 2. I was forced to turn a hand of LP, LP, IT, IT, GT, land, Duress (with land on board) into a kill given a turn. So I decided to GT for LED, next turn IT for LED, IT for Ad Nauseam from 12. Revealed a bunch of cantrips and a PiF, didn't get there. Is there a better line?
G2 He Thoughtseized me, taking IT. I dropped a Top and killed him via PiF the turn he made a 20/20. G3 he played a DRS. I Probed him and saw land, Hymn, Lili, Lili. Decided to go for land, DR, LED, IT, Empty for 10 Tokens, and flashbacked a discarded Therapy to take his Lilis. He bricked on his 5-outer of Tabernacle or Crop Rotation and was very salty.

R4 Elves 2-0
He kept a hand without a mana dork or a second land, so when I probed and saw 2 Natural Orders I guessed (correctly) that I needed to play around Ruric Thar. Killed him on turn 3. Game 2 he Thoughtseized me and took the LED (correct), but I ripped another and killed him anyway.

R5, R6 0-0-3 naptime

Quarters Junk Depths 1-2
Same Junk Depths guy. I again lost G1 to a quick kill, but made a mistake. I was on the play, Preordained. He played Bayou, pass. I Pondered, Duressed, saw:
Urborg, Vampire Hexmage, Hymn to Tourach, Knight of the Reliquary, fetchland, Crop Rotation, land(?)
I didn't realize he could Rotate EOT, Hexmage, and kill me on the next turn, so I took the Hymn thinking I'd have 2 turns. He killed me.
G2 he seemed to have a slow start, holding up a Bayou in favor of playing a spell t1. I cantripped while he played a land, Deathrite, and again held up Bayou. On my turn, I sniffed a rat and put him on Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog, so I just tutored up Ad Nauseam from 19 with 2 mana floating, got there very easily.
G3 he led on Thoughtseize and stripped a LED from a solid hand with cantrips and mana, but no tutor and only one land. I played a Top. He played a Deathrite and a Dark Depths. I Topped in upkeep and found a fetch, Infernal Tutor, and Chain of Vapor, taking the land. He played a Hexmage and passed. I Brainstormed, keeping the Chain and the Tutor, Duressed a Hymn, and played a Petal. In end step, he made a Marit Lage and I bounced it. He simply played another land and Hexmage and passed with Deathrite and Bayou up. Here's where I made a big punt. I Pondered and saw Probe, Dark Rit, Cabal Rit (with LED, Top, 1 untapped land in play; IT, LP in hand). He was at 15. So obviously I took the GP, played it, and flipped Top, and had 10 mana; and I needed to storm him for 18 because he had Deathrite + g up. I forgot to count the initial Tutor and thought I could tutor chain him, but instead fumbled 3 tutors in and just dealt him 16. I saw the Past in Flames line (Tutor -> Tutor -> PiF with DR, CR, CR in graveyard) and decided on the "cooler" Tutor chain line.

So he exiled the Hexmage in bin going to 1, then exiled the Tendrils and I lost.

This and another experience which prompted me to include Grapeshot in the first place make me think that I should always have at least Tendrils and Grapeshot in against a deck with Deathrite and discard. So yes, obv I top 8 an event where I never play against blue decks But it was a good test of the Grapeshot and board plan, which I'm liking quite a bit. I'd like to test more against Miracles to see if the third Top is necessary.

I continue to think Ad Nauseam sucks. I think I cast it 3 times - once from 12 life with B floating and a land drop and I died. Twice with B or so floating from like 18 and I won. One of those times I couldn't win via PiF because of grave hate, the other because I had double LED. The time where I killed myself, I had double LED. That makes me wonder if IGG and/or Empty the Warrens might be better than Ad Nauseam.

[Sloshthedark]

R3 Junk Depths 2-1
G1 didn't get there. Is there a better line?

This seems fine, depends on what you draw

This and another experience which prompted me to include Grapeshot in the first place make me think that I should always have at least Tendrils and Grapeshot in against a deck with Deathrite and discard. So yes, obv I top 8 an event where I never play against blue decks But it was a good test of the Grapeshot and board plan, which I'm liking quite a bit. I'd like to test more against Miracles to see if the third Top is necessary.

Why not -1-2 Preordain +1-2 SDT? those slots seem interchangeable (or what do you board out for SDTs?), 3 SDT is a lot

I continue to think Ad Nauseam sucks. I think I cast it 3 times - once from 12 life with B floating and a land drop and I died. Twice with B or so floating from like 18 and I won. One of those times I couldn't win via PiF because of grave hate, the other because I had double LED. The time where I killed myself, I had double LED. That makes me wonder if IGG and/or Empty the Warrens might be better than Ad Nauseam.

IGG is dead card and similar route to PIF, AN switch with sb EtW opens up Thoughtseize and 4th Therapy reducing creature problems

btw. how did the Bolt perform?

[phazonmutant]

Why not -1-2 Preordain +1-2 SDT? those slots seem interchangeable (or what do you board out for SDTs?), 3 SDT is a lot

You're right, 3 does seem like a lot. I did generally board out a Preordain when I brought in Tops so I could just make that switch main. Carsten's argument is that you want to be able to drop a Top before Counterbalance hits so you can sculpt your hand and find a Decay under Counterbalance. I haven't gotten enough games against Miracles to say if it's good.

IGG is dead card and similar route to PIF, AN switch with sb EtW opens up Thoughtseize and 4th Therapy reducing creature problems

btw. how did the Bolt perform?

You're right that it's similar to PiF, but it's not strictly dead in hand. Maybe I just fondly remember the days of using IGG as a mind twist... I'm absolutely a fan of Empty. I won several games with it today, and the Cabal Therapy interaction is very good.

The Bolt was decent. Against Death and Taxes I would have preferred having a Massacre, but being a 1-mana instant would have been very relevant if I had also drawn a Chain of Vapor. I didn't play against a Meddling Mage deck, but I would have been happy to have it there. It seems fine as a 1-of, but Massacre might be better. In most situations Bolt was relevant, Grapeshot was as good or better, though.

[Sloshthedark]

@Entreat the Angels - doesn't work well without chant fx and SDT ...Personal tutor is such disadvantage... RtS is kind of tempting... but still no...

You're right, 3 does seem like a lot. I did generally board out a Preordain when I brought in Tops so I could just make that switch main. Carsten's argument is that you want to be able to drop a Top before Counterbalance hits so you can sculpt your hand and find a Decay under Counterbalance. I haven't gotten enough games against Miracles to say if it's good.

This saves SB space, I'm reluctant to commit more SB slots for filtering, I'm not sure how good is it with Miracles (and I like it more vs UBG in theory), I have adopted the opposite approach with Pithing Needle, which works well for me

You're right that it's similar to PiF, but it's not strictly dead in hand. Maybe I just fondly remember the days of using IGG as a mind twist... I'm absolutely a fan of Empty. I won several games with it today, and the Cabal Therapy interaction is very good.

I meant dead as a now subpar card, PIF is a stronger choice overall, IGG suffers from the same hate and doesn't offer "angle" different enough like AN or EtW do... running PIF, IGG and EtW is something I haven't tried I think, I thought about IGG upsides as too marginal

The Bolt was decent. Against Death and Taxes I would have preferred having a Massacre, but being a 1-mana instant would have been very relevant if I had also drawn a Chain of Vapor. I didn't play against a Meddling Mage deck, but I would have been happy to have it there. It seems fine as a 1-of, but Massacre might be better. In most situations Bolt was relevant, Grapeshot was as good or better, though.

interesting... as I posted I dislike GS in theory

[Megadeus]

Is massacre just not worth it since you don't have access to it via a burning wish? I always like massacre despite its dis-synergy with AN.