[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Styroxis]

I have been running the Sherer list(s) for quite some time now for the exact reasons you mentioned.
The most recent variant (with two Tendrils of Agony, two Chrome Mox, and no Dark Petition) is able to utilize Ad Nauseam very well, giving turn two wins pretty consistently compared to other versions of ANT while preserving its late-game strength. I actually think it's quite well positioned these days...

Thanks for your input. Yeah I think I am going to try out the list. I think for legacy in the US the metagame is quite different than the rest of the world (it is why I only use SCG deck search instead of MTGTop8). I think Modern was (and still might be) the biggest format in the US and what I have noticed is that a lot of people have taken their modern decks and made them into legacy decks. Miracles is a much harder deck to build rather than a stoneblade deck from a modern control deck. D&T comes out of hatebears and its quite popular now, etc.

I really like Togore's list and overall it might be better than Scherer with more diverse metagame, but I just don't think it is where US players want to be.

[Ronald Deuce]

Thanks for the input re: Flusterstorm, everybody!

Regarding the debate over whether double-PiF or double-Petition/double-Tendrils is better: having played both double-Petition and double-PiF lists, I can say that Petitions are definitely faster, but that they're weaker to countermagic and they don't go well with Ad Nauseam. I haven't tried Moxen-and-double-Tendrils, though.

[nevilshute]

Back on storm for a bit https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...sVJV4zwezL32Xw

[JamieW89]

Back on storm for a bit https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...sVJV4zwezL32Xw

Sweet, always like watching your vids! In the first round I noticed that you keep a lot more Ponders than I would (would have shipped it g1, also the 1st one g2, probably kept the 2nd g2). Might also ship the land,discard,ponder in m3g2. Wonder if I shuffle too much, you keep too much, or neither/both :p.

The comboing is good as always (and some typical close ANT conclusions). One remark is that in m3g2 I would start by tapping Sea rather than Badlands to keep a red source (since your volc is gone), which may at some point be relevant and there isn't really a downside. I'd also take the force over the daze. If you hit any non-toa spell you still beat daze (you lead with Cabal Rit, if they counter it you're home, otherwise you follow with the spell and win. For PiF to work you'd need the Badlands untapped though). But that way you just get free shot of them making a mistake if your brainstorm somehow fails. And as demonstrated elsewhere in the vids, they usually do.

Have you ever tried Flusterstorm versus Elves postboard, I'm not sure if I like it, but you don't mention it at all? And what about Decay versus Shardless, seems okay to remove a deathrite/goyf to buy time, a hatepiece like cage/null rod/meddling mage, or maybe even a Liliana in a pinch. Versus Grixis Delver Carpet seems less than ideal (used to board it a lot too, but didn't really like it), I do like the 2nd Tendrils, 1 or 2 Decays as well as 1-2 Top.

Haven't watched the last 2 matches yet, I'm sure they'll be good too.

[Miscanthus]

Back on storm for a bit https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...sVJV4zwezL32Xw

Tough break on that last match against B/r Reanimator.
In your defense though, he had a couple very good hands. Game 1, turn one Sire of Insanity on the play.
Game 2, a protected turn one combo capable of winning through just about anything short of Leyline of the Void.

I am curious though, what is your logic behind siding in Sensei's Divining Top in this matchup? I had thought this card was best in longer, grindier matchups (aka: Miracles, attrition-based decks like Jund, etc.) where it can be used to its fullest advantage, rather than vs. turn one combo decks. Am I missing something?

[Dr_D]

I am curious though, what is your logic behind siding in Sensei's Divining Top in this matchup? I had thought this card was best in longer, grindier matchups (aka: Miracles, attrition-based decks like Jund, etc.) where it can be used to its fullest advantage, rather than vs. turn one combo decks. Am I missing something?

Imo a good reason for boarding it in is if you and your opponent have both ripped each other's hands apart and you're both trying to draw action. Top will put you infinitely ahead in this situation. I've had this come up in games vs the mirror and the player with top generally is way ahead after the initial discard onslaught.

[Miscanthus]

Imo a good reason for boarding it in is if you and your opponent have both ripped each other's hands apart and you're both trying to draw action. Top will put you infinitely ahead in this situation. I've had this come up in games vs the mirror and the player with top generally is way ahead after the initial discard onslaught.

That makes sense. Thanks.

[Ronald Deuce]

Have you ever tried Flusterstorm versus Elves postboard, I'm not sure if I like it, but you don't mention it at all? And what about Decay versus Shardless, seems okay to remove a deathrite/goyf to buy time, a hatepiece like cage/null rod/meddling mage, or maybe even a Liliana in a pinch. Versus Grixis Delver Carpet seems less than ideal (used to board it a lot too, but didn't really like it), I do like the 2nd Tendrils, 1 or 2 Decays as well as 1-2 Top.

I've never felt the need for additional disruption against Elves. Feels to me like our discards and maybe a Chain or two are the best tools for dealing with them.

Decay seems fine against Shardless to me, but I think our biggest problem in that matchup is their discards rather than their permanents. Whenever I've lost to Shardless, their board state hasn't much mattered except insofar as it nails shut the coffin.

I really feel unimpressed by Carpet. I want to like it, but I can't remember the last time I got results out of it.

Out of curiosity, what's the reasoning behind a second Tendrils against Grix? Just a means to replace Ad Nauseam? That would make sense, though I prefer having AdN to most doubles in our wincons (Past in Flames and Infernal [obv.] being exceptions).

[Togores]

I font like the second toa vs grixis. This makes that you have it easier to draw it and they therapy it + surgical. Also while they shredd your hand making a letal natural tendrills is also usualy games where you would win anyways.

Also i kind of like fluster vs elves. I side usualy 2 echoing 3 ad 2 fluster. And beat them usualy. Thay wat to beat us are like a fast natural or glimpse (where fluster shines), lot of discard (where fluster is good) and getting us to like 12 life with drs (where the removal is good).



Also I always sb 3 decays vs shardless. If you kill a shaman or fast goyf. You usualy just win by pif up your grave. Nowadays its more of a legit reason to sb in decay because of leovold. And I would think about bringing all 4 in.

[nevilshute]

I've continued to be happy with 2 tendrils vs grixis. A lot of the time they probe, fetch and force their way down to 12-14 life total territory. Maybe I don't respect surgical as much as the next guy does.

[Sloshthedark]

I've continued to be happy with 2 tendrils vs grixis. A lot of the time they probe, fetch and force their way down to 12-14 life total territory. Maybe I don't respect surgical as much as the next guy does.

the same here

[Ancestral]

I font like the second toa vs grixis. This makes that you have it easier to draw it and they therapy it + surgical. Also while they shredd your hand making a letal natural tendrills is also usualy games where you would win anyways.

Also i kind of like fluster vs elves. I side usualy 2 echoing 3 ad 2 fluster. And beat them usualy. Thay wat to beat us are like a fast natural or glimpse (where fluster shines), lot of discard (where fluster is good) and getting us to like 12 life with drs (where the removal is good).



Also I always sb 3 decays vs shardless. If you kill a shaman or fast goyf. You usualy just win by pif up your grave. Nowadays its more of a legit reason to sb in decay because of leovold. And I would think about bringing all 4 in.

about the shardless part, since it´s reasonable to bring in 4x decays, wich cards do you take out ?

[Ronald Deuce]

Back on storm for a bit https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...sVJV4zwezL32Xw

Hey, Nevilshute!

Tough breaks on those last two matchups. I feel like Dredge is usually a bit of a toss-up; we're a bit faster, but Cabal Therapy is real, so matches have tended to devolve into one person's discarding the other into oblivion two times out of three. I've been considering bringing in a Surgical or two next time I get to play a big tournament, primarily to fight Reanimator, but I'm wondering whether it's worth it against Dredge. In my experience (as a Dredge player, too), it's only good if it comes down early or in multiples. What do you (and others) think?

How did you feel about maindeck Empty? I love the card, but I use it pretty rarely, which is why I don't have it in the main.

Interesting to see you left Grim Tutor at home. Did you miss it? I've been practicing on 4-tutor lists lately, and—much as this may clash with a lot of what I've said earlier in the thread—I haven't found myself missing Dark Petition all that often. An extra tutor would be nice, but both Grim and Petition are really painful with Ad Nauseam.

Speaking of, Ad Nauseam is a cruel mistress. I think it's a stellar card, but it does shoot us in the foot sometimes. I've found myself more reluctant of late to jam it off of multiple LEDs because that can put us in a dangerous spot with tutors.

Anyone done any testing with Fatal Push yet? Preliminary opinions? I'm interested in trying it, but I don't know that I'll need it if I've got two Chains; considering cutting back my D&T board and just mixing up my deck choices so that people don't peg me as the Storm guy so much.

[thefringthing]

If we're bringing in Decays for Miracles, Death & Taxes, BUG, Eldrazi, Burn, etc. we surely should be playing them maindeck.

[Jonathan Alexander]

Against many decks you only want them after sideboarding though. (Also, I did that a while back and it wasn't great. I don't think it's possible to make reasonable cuts to include Decay without falling short on some other front. Further, Daze does a similar thing while more widely applicable. Not saying maindeck Daze is the way to go, but I would certainly run them over Decay when it comes to the maindeck.)

[Togores]

about the shardless part, since it´s reasonable to bring in 4x decays, wich cards do you take out ?

Preordain
Pif
2 cabal ritual
And another card idk yet. Because I also want to sb in the sb top.

[m0ller]

Hello all stormers!


Regarding the BR reanimated matchup and decks with main deck chalice I board 3 dazes and have had very positive results on modo (not yet tested it a lot in paper). Though, this is on an experimentally level i feel it has different angle to attack those decks. Hence, even burn can't wait another turn to jam eidolon.

Normally I am on grinding station (2 pif, 2 toa, 2 top, 1 Dark p, 1 etw) due to my dislike of ad naseuam main board. My sideboard support AN very well followed with two chrome mox if I want to shift gear.

/m0ller

[Sloshthedark]

If we're bringing in Decays for Miracles, Death & Taxes, BUG, Eldrazi, Burn, etc. we surely should be playing them maindeck.

I do, there are 4ppl on burg w Leovold in 12-16ppl in my lgs, not enough games to evaluate yet, really hate to have only 1 R source though

[CabalTherapy]

Hello all stormers!


Regarding the BR reanimated matchup and decks with main deck chalice I board 3 dazes and have had very positive results on modo (not yet tested it a lot in paper). Though, this is on an experimentally level i feel it has different angle to attack those decks. Hence, even burn can't wait another turn to jam eidolon.

Normally I am on grinding station (2 pif, 2 toa, 2 top, 1 Dark p, 1 etw) due to my dislike of ad naseuam main board. My sideboard support AN very well followed with two chrome mox if I want to shift gear.

/m0ller

I have tested 3 main Dazes in a local. It was horrible. Sample size was obviously way too small but it felt bad and I missed the business spells I had to cut for them. Maybe it was also because for the first time I left the house without Grim
Tutor. I have played Dazes in the board a few times and liked them though. It's definitely an option there.

If BR Reanimator will be even bigger we can run some real graveyard hate to fight this MU. I can definitely see myself going up with hate to accompany my lonely Extirpate at the moment.

Ah, and regarding Leovold, I don't feel like playing AD main since cutting on business or discard spells may put us in awkward spots with Leovold in play, Decay in hand, but no real action for the next turn(s). If I am unable to cantrip, I want to have the business already in hand before this junky boy enters the arena.

[Jeff]

I've lost multiple games to Leovold so far with the entire combo in hand but an inability to get hellbent because of a Brainstorm in hand. It sucks. I don't have the answer yet though. I think it probably has something to do with racing him, like you say.