The Eldazi matchup will stay really bad for Storm no matter what we do, but imo it helps to be aware of what counts in the matchup, and it's important to look at play/draw and pre-/postboard separately.
Pre-board:
In general we can't really afford to play any real answers to Thorn/Chalice pre board, because they do nothing for our main gameplan and hurt all of our other matchups. The closest we can get is playing maindeck copies of Burning Wish with Pulverize or Meltdown in the sideboard. I've tested that configuration and every now and then you do end up winning a game 1 because of it, but it's still not very reliable, because one TKS or Wail will usually break it up. I have won against turn 1 Chalice @ 0 + Chalice @ 1 with that tech, so it is certainly something that can work if they kept a threat-light hand. Sometimes when you're lucky you can also randomly win through one lock piece (like with Cabal Ritual heavy hands against a single Chalice@1 or Thorn), but a lot has to go right for you there. If a game is shaping up to come down to this, I sometimes start throwing spells into their Chalice just to get to threshold, then win with Cabal Rituals+Tutors+PiF as soon as I can.
Pre-board otp:
I feel like the best way to improve our matchup preboard otp is playing more discard, and starting with 4 Duress over Therapy. If we play something like 4 Duress/3 CT we have at least as many discard effects as they have lock pieces, and I felt like my otp win percentage was slightly over 50% with that config. Playing lists that have ways of winning asap can also help, because your own turn 1 otp is the only turn in the game where you can guarantee they won't do anything bad to you.
Pre-board otd:
Let's face it, if they have a good hand here, you're dead no matter what you do. The only thing you can do is build your deck in a way that enables as many fast wins as possible (maindeck EtW/Ad Nauseam) and pray they don't do anything turn 1. The Burning Wish tech mentioned above can sometimes help, but as I said it's unreliable and I wouldn't recommend it unless you're an advocate of maindeck Wish anyway. Same goes for winning through a singleton hate piece with Cabal Rituals. Keep your SDT/Preordain count as low as possible, because those are literally the worst cards in your deck against Eldrazi.
Post-board:
The main changes here will be that they now always have 4 Thorns (which means that CT loses even more value, because blind-naming Chalice may not be the right thing to do by default) and that they won't draw any dead Dismembers against you any more. Their deck is literally perfect against you. 25 Lands, 8-10 lock pieces and 25-27 things that kill you. In order to win through resolved lock pieces, apart from baing lucky and winning through them, there are a lot of options and I've seen people come up with very different plans. To name a few:
- Abrupt Decays/KGrips: Every Storm player has access to those and if you have no other specific plans for the matchup, all you can do is board them in and hope for the best. If you do rely on green cards against them you should obviously have 2 green lands in your 75 because of Wasteland.
- Chain of Vapor: Some people run those to complement the Decays and they also work here, but I generally don't like bounce very much in this matchup unless it bounces everything at once. There's not much to be gained from bouncing one hate piece if they have another one out, I'd rather just actually kill them one by one.
- Hurkyl's Recall: It's easy to cast in terms of colors, it can be used EOT and it gets rid of everything at once, so it's definitely a good choice. 2 Recall + 2-3 Decays is better than just 4 Decays, so if you have the room, why not run it. I haven't seen anyone play the full 4 Recalls yet, because noone really has that much room in the board, but if so, you might even get away without relying on Green, which is certainly great.
- Ingot Chewer: Every option from now on would start with 'if you have room for it', so I'll just stop mentioning it every time. Chewer 1-for-1s Chalice and Thorn for just 1 mana and it doesn't require Green either, but in turn you should definitely have 2 red lands in your list. The problem with this is that you'd most likely want the full playset, because unlike Hurkyl's you can't get rid of more than one piece at a time. And if you play only a few Chewers and are forced to board a split of Chewer/Decay, you're running into trouble with your colors.
- Meltdown/Pulverize: Like Chewer these require at least 2 red lands, which makes your color situation sort of awkward if you board Decays alongside them. Their advantage over Chewer is obviously that they can X-for 1 them, but they also come at a higher cost. They're also Sorceries, which means that you can Wish for them if you're doing that kind of thing, but also that Warping Wail stops them.
- Serenity: We're down to the more creative and obscure options now. This gets rid of all their hate pieces at once, it only costs 2 mana and Wail doesn't hit it. I haven't tested it myself yet, but in theory I think that this may be one of the most underrated options we have against Eldrazi. The problem is of course that it basically forces you to drop Decay, because 5 colors is just too ambitious, and once you lose those, you'll struggle more against Miracles and against creature-based hate pieces. I do plan on doing some testing on how much Serenity improves the Eldrazi matchup post-board, but it would have to be a whole lot in order to warrant giving up Decay.
- Teferi's Realm: If this cost 2U instead of 1UU, I may have tried it out already. Even though it's blue, it's cost is very prohibitive, and the fact that it costs 3 mana total might already rule it out. However, if you do manage to land it, the effect is incredibly strong. It gets rid of all their hate artifacts at once, it does so without any mana investment on the turn you want to go off, and it can also cut them off of Wail sometimes. It also works better than Serenity against Miracles, because it's harder to counter with CB and it permanently removes all their CBs during your turn, no matter how many they draw. Therefore I think it would most likely be a replacement for Decay, which would also mean you could drop green. In theory it's also decent against Death and Taxes and other decks that have creature-based hate. It would go with 2 basic Islands most likely. It's probably just too expensive and too gimmick to be actually good, but I really want to test it anyway.
EDIT: I've also seen people go really deep and play a singleton Moat or Ensnaring Bridge to tutor for turn 1, because it's usually a safer win than just going for EtW (and Bridge costs less). Preferable alongside a card that prevents you from ever decking, because your strategy here may be actually decking the Eldrazi deck.
Post-board otp:
Discard is still pretty strong here, so I'd keep all of them in. I start with boarding in an EtW (multiple is an option, but I never felt like I gained much by it and I don't want to waste 3 sb slots on them) and whatever answers to a resolved Calice/Thorn I decided to put in my sideboard. I don't usually max out on the latter, I'd rather try to use discard to clear the way and only have 2-3 actual answers to resolved things in my deck in case something goes wrong. Depending on how many cards I'm boarding in, I start by cutting down on cantrips. All SDT/Preordains first, but I won't hesitate to board out all 4 Ponders as well if I need to make that much room.
Post-board otd:
This is where discard loses a ton of value, because if they just drop their piece turn 1 all of your discard spells become pretty bad. I still wouldn't board out too many of them, because you may still need to clear that Wail out of their hand at some point (and because they're still just good if they happen to pass the turn on turn 1), but I'm happy to go down to 3-5. Ponders gain a little in value again, because they're decent when they lead on Thorn and you're looking for your answer to it, so I'll board a couple of them back in. EtW and all other ways to win as fast as possible stay in of course. As opposed to otp, I'll also boad in the rest of my answers to resolved lock pieces here (4-5 in total), because it's much more likely that they'll resolve them when they're otp.
Anybody have a link to the Grinding Station thread?
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...inding-Station
(Still outdated though.)
(Also just realised I was playing six Storm spells and three Past in Flames maindeck. That shit was crazy.)
Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com
deckstats.net archive
Term is official now: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=20447&iddeck=155962Originally Posted by Izor
WantToPonder
former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
Team MTG Berlin
The Dragonstorm
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm
Great!
How does this deck sideboards exaaclty vs miracles? Like in an outs?
, lol
differently than I do, I'm cutting LP, all you guys cut LED and IT
I would like more -/+ list XD
seems like you cut petals while, I cut 2-2 OIT amnd led and Jona cuts all leds and IT.
I only do that with Grinding Station. When I'm on 2 Petition, I cut all Petals and Mox for Badlands and 4 discard.
Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com
deckstats.net archive
Hi, need some help on playing storm in MTGO.
i cant seem to cast infernal tutor with LED.
When i hold ctrl while casting infernal tutor, it doesn't allow me to crack LED
When i hold ctrl and crack LED, my hand is instantly discarded.
whats the order of casting?
They recently changed the casting of spells slightly so that you have to click on your mana to indicate what you're paying (even if you only have access to one color). I basically just hold down ctrl, click on the infernal tutor in my hand, then click on the mana symbols I'm using to cast it with, all the while keeping ctrl pressed. The tutor will then go onto the stack and you will still have priority.
Thanks for responding.
My challenge is when you cast infernal tutor, the available mana sources will be highlighted. What happens in my case is that the lotus petals will be highlighted, but not the LEDs.
Currently, do you crack the LEDs first? or cast the infernal tutors first?
Tutor first always. Crack LED when Tutor goes onto the stack, only then.
When you cast your infernal tutor, is your LED highlighted? or is it faded out?
can you simply crack the LED when they ask you the pay for the mana cost?
Are you trying to pay for the tutor with mana from the LED? Because that won't work
I had a enjoyable game against Burg Delver today where he had Thoughtseize for my Tendrils and extracted it on turn1. I won with 16 Goblins on turn 3.
It was a nice match, meffeo. (I know you'll read this.)
I only lost to Eldrazi today. He had 2x Chalice (0,1) turn 1 on the play and turn 2 TKS. In the second game: Leyline, turn 1 Chalice 1 followed up with TKS on turn 2 and Thorn on turn 3. Shit happens but I couldn't do anything.
WantToPonder
former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
Team MTG Berlin
The Dragonstorm
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm
oh. it doesn't? i always thought it did!Are you trying to pay for the tutor with mana from the LED? Because that won't work
Not sure whether it's quoted in the primer, but this is super-important: you can't use the mana from Lion's Eye Diamond to cast or use the abilities of cards that are in your hand when you sacrifice the Diamond. If you cast Infernal Tutor, for example, you can sacrifice Lion's Eye when the Tutor is on the stack so that you gain the 3 mana before the Tutor resolves, leaving you with three mana of a color of your choosing and the card you tutored to find in your hand. You can't cast anything else from your hand during that time because discarding your hand is part of the cost of Lion's Eye Diamond's ability. [EDIT: So if you sacrifice the LED with Infernal Tutor in your hand, you have to discard the Tutor and you don't get to use it after you've broken the LED. NEVER do that.] If (for whatever reason) you had a Lightning Bolt in your hand and a Mountain untapped when you cast Infernal Tutor, you could respond to the Tutor by casting Lightning Bolt, dealing three damage before the tutor resolves. Add an active LED to the mix: you can cast Bolt with Tutor on the stack before sacrificing the Diamond, but not afterward, because you have to discard Bolt to use the LED's mana ability.
I hope that helps; it's one of the most confusing and important aspects of playing this deck. One other thing to note: Infernal Tutor automatically goes Hellbent if you sacrifice LED with the Tutor on the stack.
Last edited by Ronald Deuce; 05-28-2016 at 08:38 PM.
This is starting to feel very much like my experience with Dredge. Only instead of opponents' sideboarding until they hit Leyline of the Void or double-Surgical, they just naturally draw mainboard cards that make it impossible for us to play things.
Not happy about that, but I appreciate everyone's input re: the matchup versus Eldrazi. I'm gonna keep pushing forward, and I'll let you know if my fortunes start to turn for the better. Audentis fortuna iuvat!
Nevilshute, my curiosity's really getting to me: what was the opponent playing in the matchup with the G1 Island, Delta? What did you sideboard, and was it correct?
Right, sorry I had forgotten about that. Well I had the same thoughts as many of you "probably combo". Boarded in 2x fluster, 1x top, brought out 1x empty, 1x chrome mox, 1x something I'm blanking on and managed to beat my storm opponent
Where can i find a more detailed sideboarding guide? i've looked through the first post, but there isnt enough information from there.Right, sorry I had forgotten about that. Well I had the same thoughts as many of you "probably combo". Boarded in 2x fluster, 1x top, brought out 1x empty, 1x chrome mox, 1x something I'm blanking on and managed to beat my storm opponent
Thanks!
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