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Thread: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

  1. #6081
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    Not if I want them to counter the ritual. . . . Point is that this sequence makes the opponent less likely to counter the ritual because they think it's a bait spell for the FoW.
    Ah, ok, gotcha. Was thinking about the scenario from the other side of things.
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  2. #6082
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Who likes 2nd Petition over 2nd PiF?
    "If you're playing Storm in Legacy, you need to believe that what your deck does is better than what their deck does."

  3. #6083
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    Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by boneclub24 View Post
    Who likes 2nd Petition over 2nd PiF?
    Funny, I just cutted Petition to get the 2nd PiF back and the list feels amazingly good! :)

  4. #6084

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Hello, I am new on the forum.

    I started to play legacy some months ago with storm and I continue to persevere with that deck since.

    Have some of you tested tower of sentinel from Battlebond as a sideboard card ?
    It seems pretty cool against control and prison decks but I am not sure if it worths to be played in 1 or 2 along with EtW in the side.

  5. #6085

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by François View Post
    Hello, I am new on the forum.
    Have some of you tested tower of sentinel from Battlebond as a sideboard card ?
    .
    Welcome! Hope you enjoy learning about the most fun deck in legacy.

    Sentinel tower is...well, it looks like fun. It could be really exciting to jam out turn one and then try top cantrip through the deck as fast as possible. I'm not even remotely convinced it's worthwhile. it doesn't play well with PiF and doesn't finish a tutor-based line very well, so will always need to be played from hand. Once in play, against chalice it really just turns brainstorm into lava dart, and against a sphere means you're probably turning 2 cards and 4 mana into 3 damage. Against control, I just want PiF all day every day.

    Doesn't mean it's not worth fooling around with though. Give it a try, let us know how it goes :)

  6. #6086

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    So it seems like Gitaxian Probe is no longer with us

    How do we feel about ANT moving forward? Probe was one of the best cards in the deck, but the other decks lost a maindeckable one drop that made Cabal Ritual and Past in Flames quite bad. That might end up being a better boon for the deck than losing our favourite zero mana cantrip. I'm cautiously optimistic about Storm's position in the post-DRS world even though we took a hit.

    Seems like the natural way forward is as follows:

    -4 Gitaxian Probe

    +2-3 Preordain
    +1-2 Discard spell
    +0-1 Rain of Filth/Dark Petition/Grim Tutor
    +0-1 Land

    From there, do we still bother with sideboard cards like Ground Seal/Silent Gravestone? They do help versus Surgical and versus Reanimator strategies, but with DRS gone they lose a lot of incidental value.

  7. #6087
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Superior View Post
    So it seems like Gitaxian Probe is no longer with us
    The bad decisions just keep coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Superior View Post
    Seems like the natural way forward is as follows:

    -4 Gitaxian Probe
    +2-3 Preordain
    +1-2 Discard spell
    +0-1 Rain of Filth/Dark Petition/Grim Tutor
    +0-1 Land
    I was considering bringing a couple of Chrome Mox to support Ad Nauseam and Empty the Warrens. I think we're gonna need more Preordains now (ugh), so I was probably going to go to 3 Preordain, 2 Mox, and maybe a Burning Wish or something.

    Out of curiosity, anyone been testing Probe-less lists before today? I think someone in the Facebook group was, but I don't remember who/when and I've had a pretty . . . eventful couple of weeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Superior View Post
    From there, do we still bother with sideboard cards like Ground Seal/Silent Gravestone? They do help versus Surgical and versus Reanimator strategies, but with DRS gone they lose a lot of incidental value.
    I never thought Seal or Gravestone was worth more than one slot. Definitely not wasting space on them now.

    Also, brb; going feral. Last straws and all that.
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    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

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    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  8. #6088

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Wanted to refer everyone to this thoughtful assessment:

    https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...ans-in-legacy/

    Addresses overall meta-impact of these changes, including a specific assessment of the impact on legacy storm, with reference to an ANT decklist. It concludes that the net effect of both bans is unclear but might well be positive. This is consistent with my initial reaction, if slightly more optimistic.

    One could debate whether this assessment also applies to TES. I might argue TES falls more under the separate category of "Fragile Combo Decks that Don’t Use the Graveyard" which this article marks as a clear winner (it provides a Belcher list as an example, even though it plays 4x probe).

  9. #6089

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    So with a potential increase in DnT and blood moon decks in conjuction with the loss of speed i think running some number of removal maindeck might be necessary. I was thinking 2 decays. Heck i could see going full grinding station for game 1.

  10. #6090

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    So with the banning of Probe, I've been considering the most direct possible replacement. Here's my idea:

    -4 Probe

    +3 Peek
    +1 Land (Deciding between basic island or another dual)

    I think adding another basic island is probably right in this setup as the deck has more need of blue AND I expect wasteland decks like D&T to see a serious uptick.

    Any thoughts on this idea?

  11. #6091

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by quadich View Post
    So with a potential increase in DnT and blood moon decks in conjuction with the loss of speed i think running some number of removal maindeck might be necessary. I was thinking 2 decays. Heck i could see going full grinding station for game 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeusBolt View Post
    So with the banning of Probe, I've been considering the most direct possible replacement. Here's my idea:

    -4 Probe

    +3 Peek
    +1 Land (Deciding between basic island or another dual)

    I think adding another basic island is probably right in this setup as the deck has more need of blue AND I expect wasteland decks like D&T to see a serious uptick.

    Any thoughts on this idea?
    These sound like really awkward additions that put a lot of fluff in your deck that doesn't help you combo out. Maindeck removal that requires your splash color seems particularly bad main deck when you queue into tempo decks, and running a coupld removal main deck requires you to be lucky/psychic in the game 1s you want them. I'd rather just not dilute the deck unless it's known to be necessary.

    If you shaved Preordains to add in tech cards, just play Preordains at 4, it does so much more than Peek. You might also want to consider Rain of Filth, as it helps mitigate the loss of Probe as a Threshold filler. If you wanted to run some sort of out to a creature, since it may be harder to race Thalia / Leo, I was considering a miser Sapphire Charm as my 60th card, to be the 13th cantrip, occasional out to Thalia and once-in-a-blue-moon way to delete Batterskulls, but even that seems unnecessary.

  12. #6092

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    What about the discard suite? Currently I play 6 (3 duress, 3 therapy). Going forward I think I want 7 or 8 effects. I'm thinking of 4 duress, 2 or 3 thoughtseize, and one cabal therapy.

    Without probe cabal therapy obviously gets much worse, but as a one-of we might face about the same number of blind therapy situations as we do now. I play ad nauseam main, so I do not love thoughtseize, but some number seems like a necessary evil. I consider inquisition unplayable since it can't hit fow, and collective brutality too narrow and expensive.

    I could make an argument for a single flusterstorm in lieu if a thoughtseize if it proves too painful, but wouldn't start there.

    It's also possible that no drs and need for thoughtseize means we should cut as nauseam from main, but I hate to lose it as a maindeck plan b.

    So my starting point will be to replace 4 probes with +1 net duress effect (per above), +2 preordain, and +1 rain of filth, in a shell that plays 2 extra tutors (currently one dp and 1 grim), 1 past in flames, 1 ad nauseum and 0 etw main.

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  13. #6093

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderPreaux View Post
    These sound like really awkward additions that put a lot of fluff in your deck that doesn't help you combo out. Maindeck removal that requires your splash color seems particularly bad main deck when you queue into tempo decks, and running a coupld removal main deck requires you to be lucky/psychic in the game 1s you want them. I'd rather just not dilute the deck unless it's known to be necessary.

    If you shaved Preordains to add in tech cards, just play Preordains at 4, it does so much more than Peek. You might also want to consider Rain of Filth, as it helps mitigate the loss of Probe as a Threshold filler. If you wanted to run some sort of out to a creature, since it may be harder to race Thalia / Leo, I was considering a miser Sapphire Charm as my 60th card, to be the 13th cantrip, occasional out to Thalia and once-in-a-blue-moon way to delete Batterskulls, but even that seems unnecessary.
    I do like the idea of the addtional two preordain. My list already runs one Rain of Filth. My suspicion is that two may be too much. I may try the idea of:

    -4 Probe

    +2 Preordain

    +1 Discard Spell

    +1 Land

    I may test with the Sapphire Charm, it can blank the Thalia, which is nice. I agree that peek is a lot worse than Preordain, I just fear I may not have enough ways to look at opponents hand.

  14. #6094

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Maxing out of preordain, at least initially, is a must. We are at heart a turbo-xerox deck and what we need to do is maximise consistency. Probe has previously been a component of this.

    Peek is worthless. It does very little to progress our gameplan and wastes mana. Probe was worthwhile as it was essentially free.

    I now think 15 lands becomes standard, as we essentially lose 2 cantrips (ie one land). I'm also confident we go up on discard spells and will personally be changing my load-out to have access to at least 2-3 thoughtseize. Therapy, although still strong, loses value. Rain of filth, mentioned before, gains value although I'm not sure on it yet.

    The biggest thing for me is how, if at all, this changes our business spells. Unfortunately, I think this is something only testing will help with

  15. #6095

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I went up to 8 discard (4 duress/3 thoughtseize/1 therapy), 4 preordain, second Island, and I really don't like it. I run 2 PIF, 1 Rain of Filth 1 DP, and it feels like my Ad Nauseums are very bad and the deck just feels slow and clunky - though I know this is unavoidable now without probe.

    I was thinking about leaving the second Island and adding a second Rain of Filth but that feels bad too. I might cut the Bayou for Badlands and add an ETW main deck. I don't know, I feel like ANT is alive and well but adding all of this discard and preordains sucks. I hate preordain.

    Wish we had top. In other news, I was almost finished foiling out Doomsday when the bans hit so that's awesome

  16. #6096

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by smolik75 View Post
    I went up to 8 discard (4 duress/3 thoughtseize/1 therapy), 4 preordain, second Island, and I really don't like it. I run 2 PIF, 1 Rain of Filth 1 DP, and it feels like my Ad Nauseums are very bad and the deck just feels slow and clunky - though I know this is unavoidable now without probe.

    I was thinking about leaving the second Island and adding a second Rain of Filth but that feels bad too. I might cut the Bayou for Badlands and add an ETW main deck. I don't know, I feel like ANT is alive and well but adding all of this discard and preordains sucks. I hate preordain.

    Wish we had top. In other news, I was almost finished foiling out Doomsday when the bans hit so that's awesome
    Idk that I'd want 2nd PiF or EtW as much without Probe. Free storm and info was a big deal for EtW and value probe flashbacks were part of what made 2 PiFs awesome in slugfests versus control. Cutting a 2nd PiF will probably also improve your Ad Nauseams.

  17. #6097

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo




    Had to finish my MTGO league before it ended tonight. Nice send-off to the deck as I know it. For those who are squeamish about playing Preordain, I was grinding with this deck for a while and was never sad to see them, and I never sided a single one out. Even against Chalice, I think there're better things to rotate out of the deck, the closest I came to cutting cantrips is siding Probes out against Burn. Super excited to test new lists these next few days, though.

    One thing I'm considering as a 2-of in my 15 lands is Gemstone Mine, as it can act as a backup to Trop/Volcanic if you need to play your splash SB cards against a Wasteland deck (ex. Abrupt Decays against Chalice) or if you want to do EtW and PiF against Tempo throughout a game. Gemstone Mine can also be played early to bait a Wasteland out, give you colors in a Stifle-proof fashion and be strategically emptied out on the combo turn to get Threshold, sort of like extra fetches. I think it might be worth a shot, between a couple Mines and Rain of Filth, I'm hoping I can consistently and incidentally hit Threshold while still getting something functional out of the card itself.

  18. #6098
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Switch Probes to 2x Burning Wish, 2x Rite of Flame. BAM.

    /semi-facetiousness
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    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

    Roses are red, violets are blue
    Omae wa mou shindeiru
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    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  19. #6099

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I think the lose of Probe slows down ANT more than it is already and I am worried about if ANT can handle that lose. So with the lost of speed + free cantripping is it probaly better to play annother combo deck now? Thoughted of two card like Sneak and Show or Reanimator. Also I would like to stay Grixis without G-Splash, but I think that`s the next thing which isn`t good now, because Miracles would become more popular? So overall I am not sure if I should stay with ANT and buying stuff like Tropical, Bayou and Grim Tutor...

  20. #6100

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    The loss of Probe doesn't really impact the reanimator matchup. UB reanimator was and always will be wildly unflavoured. R/B reanimator isn’t really impacted by the loss of probe either. This matchup is almost always won by the reanimator either stumbling, having a slow start or not being able to reanimate the appropriate fatty (and in some post-board situations, simply putting Iona on the wrong colour). It’s not generally won through speed.

    As for the SnS matchup, with the loss of probe, there’s going to be more disruption played, something which SnS finds pretty miserable. It’s also a matchup that IME isn’t typically won with sheer speed. I don’t predict this matchup changing drastically. I’ve always felt it’s been more predicated on whether there’s white leylines in the board than anything else.

    Speed has never been ANT’s primary strength. If you think pure speed is the answer, PSI, Belcher or oops have always been considerably faster. TES has always been the answer for people who want to add disruption to their storm deck, but don’t believe ANT is fast enough in the meta or value sheer speed over resiliency. ANT has put up results by being brutally good at pushing through counter magic while also offering a strong game against any non-blue decks (exception being those that can combo turn 1 or lock it out with a chalice). This doesn’t change with the probe banning.

    As for whether you should keep playing it…No idea. That’s a very personal question and comes down to whether you like the playstyle. If you enjoyed it before, I don't expect much to change there

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