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Thread: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

  1. #2001

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfinbird View Post
    To avoid the lifeloss of massacre during the Ad Nauseam i played 1 Massacre +1 Pyroclasm for a couple of weeks and they worked well, also ther are good targets for grim tutor in those matchups. Now i've got more SB space and i'm playing 3 dreads of night because GW it's quite popular in my meta.

    Against Miracles i side this way:

    +3 Abrupt decay +2 SDT +1 Krosan grip
    -2 Preordain, -2 Cabal ritual, -1 Lotus petal -1 Island (Underground sea or Lotus Petal#2 if they play some blood moons in SB)

    I think that you should leave at least 2 lotus petal, otherwise you will lose thos fast kills that win easy easy and you will make your AN worse too. I like having 3 of them, but i'm not sure if i should side out a second petal instead of the second cabal ritual. I've got fantastic results siding this way (13 wins, 4 loses during this year)



    You're right,Lotus petals enables fast kills and improves ad nauseam...however my problem with Lotus Petal against miracles is that every time i draw one,it seems very poor;but i'll try your plan,and see how it works!
    i also want to try a 4th decay over the krosan grip,because every time i used it was on counterbalance;so i prefer a lower mana cost...(and some very good/lucky player could leave a vendilion clique on top and counter your krosan grip)

  2. #2002

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Arguru View Post
    You're right,Lotus petals enables fast kills and improves ad nauseam...however my problem with Lotus Petal against miracles is that every time i draw one,it seems very poor;but i'll try your plan,and see how it works!
    i also want to try a 4th decay over the krosan grip,because every time i used it was on counterbalance;so i prefer a lower mana cost...(and some very good/lucky player could leave a vendilion clique on top and counter your krosan grip)
    When i side out acceleration against miracles, i hedge against RIP and my own Ad Nauseam by boarding out 1-2 Petals and Cabal Rits, depending on how much else I'm boarding out, you always want min. 2 of each, though, as Tutoring even a Petal can occaisionally be correct.

  3. #2003
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I 4-0'd last night's regular 30 person weekly with the same list as pre-banning. Oh huh. I guess Storm is still really good.

    On a more serious note, have you guys noticed a difference in the matchups between pre-Cruise, Cruise, and post-Cruise Legacy? Obviously there are different decks represented in the different stages, but in aggregate do you think ANT's percentage against the field has changed between the three periods?
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  4. #2004

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    I 4-0'd last night's regular 30 person weekly with the same list as pre-banning. Oh huh. I guess Storm is still really good.

    On a more serious note, have you guys noticed a difference in the matchups between pre-Cruise, Cruise, and post-Cruise Legacy? Obviously there are different decks represented in the different stages, but in aggregate do you think ANT's percentage against the field has changed between the three periods?
    well I've attended only about 4 tournaments postban...
    TC-Post TC theoretically speaking MUs are definitely worse due to Dig (which is much better than TC against Ant) and no UR and more Miracles in the meta...
    PreTC-PostTC it's hard to tell depends what Dig replaced and I do not remember what the matches were like half year ago... In paper reality I'd say slightly worse in MUs but better in metagame (better UWx midrange, low on UBG - at least locally)

  5. #2005
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinH View Post
    Just curious, what makes Krosan Grip better than Abrupt Decay?

    Also, I remember once reading a European blog talking about a "Turbo Tendrils" deck that included multiple copies of Tendrils of Agony in the maindeck to "brute force" the combo through. Does anyone know what blog I'm talking about? I wanted to go read those articles again.
    Anyone?

  6. #2006
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinH View Post
    Anyone?
    Krosan grip can destroy sensei's divining top. This way you can humiliate them if they have a fluster/fow/counterspell flotatimg on the top of their library.

    I haven't got information about this Block, but the deck you are talking about is The Grinding Station, which plays múltiple copies of Tendrils, Past in flames and Empty the warrens to win via natural storm or double Tendrils usually.

  7. #2007

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinH View Post
    Anyone?
    You can find the answer to your question between page 63 and 66.

    Quote Originally Posted by sawatarix View Post
    @miracle-sideboarding:

    +2 senseis devining top
    +2 Krosan Grip
    +3 Abrupt Decay
    +3 Xantid Swarm

    -2 Lotus Petal
    -2 Cabal Ritual
    -1 Island
    -2 Preordain
    -2 Cabal Therapy
    -1 Ponder


    Basically you resolve a senseis top and build a perfect hand + abrupt decay/krosan grip. Then you go off and win.
    make sure to float a second business spell on top of your library because loosing to vendillion clique is pretty poor.

    If you play multiple Tendrils of Agony in your Sideboard (grinding station) i recommend to be on the draw because the matchup is all about card quantity.

    Quote Originally Posted by sawatarix View Post
    you guys are missing the most important thing about krosan grip and the reason why it is so much better than pithin needle:
    Splitsecond.

    Needle can be countered easily and becomes a completely dead card against miracle if they have the cb-toplock online. Krosan Grip doesn't care about what our opponent has.
    The 3-Mana investment is totally worth it and doesn't make your ad nauseam worse,you still get 13~ cards and win.
    It was probably one of my best sideboardcards so i'm thinking of 3 Krosan Grips and 2 Decays right now.

    ps: i wouldn't board in pithin needle against sneakshow or elves (as some of you suggested) even if i have 1-2 copies in my sideboard.
    Whit Krosan Grip you can kill Top, and drastically reduce their card selection. If your plan is to assemble an unbeatable hand (generally whit 1 ToA) in a long game, then reduce their ability to manipulate their deck is the clear path to victory !

  8. #2008
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Ah, I see - you're going after the top, not the CB. Does the small upside that gives you make it worth the extra mana?

  9. #2009

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinH View Post
    Just curious, what makes Krosan Grip better than Abrupt Decay?

    Also, I remember once reading a European blog talking about a "Turbo Tendrils" deck that included multiple copies of Tendrils of Agony in the maindeck to "brute force" the combo through. Does anyone know what blog I'm talking about? I wanted to go read those articles again.
    I belive you wanted this - links to the blog in OP

  10. #2010
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark View Post
    I belive you wanted this - links to the blog in OP
    The link in that thread leads to an empty page on my blog, but it will also show you newer posts below, most of which are about storm. I don't feel anything has changed really since the introduction of Abrupt Decay and Deathrite Shaman - in fact, I am still playing the same maindeck as late 2012. If you have any more questions after reading through the articles, feel free to private message me or post in this thread, although I don't always check here.

    In other news, I think I'm going back to maindeck Grinding Station again as there isn't enough Team America over here to punish it.
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  11. #2011
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Hey guys, I've just gotten back into storm after about a year hiatus. I'm starting from the basics again, as I was running TNT (ANT w. Burning Wish package) but I find it to be really clunky, and not worth increasing my G1 matchup vs random hate cards. I've thrown / proxied together the basic deck in the primer, but I've got some preferred sideboard tech.

    Does this sideboard look ok for use with the beginner's Main deck listed in the primer?

    2x Massacre (Death and Taxes, Maverick, Stoneblade, MM decks)
    3x Abrupt Decay (Counterbalance decks, Chalice Decks, Gaddock Teeg, etc)
    2x Chain of Vapor (Teeg decks, Jund, Non-chalice hate permanents, Lands, Leyline)
    2x SDT (Miracles, other Control Decks, any Counterbalance deck, Chalice / Trinisphere decks)
    1x Empty the Warrens (Jund!, anything that could be running surgical or enough hate to make past in flames feel bad, sanctity decks)
    3x Xantid Swarm (Miracles, SDT control decks, merfolk)
    1x Surgical Extraction (Dredge, Mirror, Past in flames decks, miracles)
    1x Flusterstorm (Stifle decks, Flusterstorm decks, Mirror, combo decks in general)
    They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.

  12. #2012
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by exallium View Post
    Hey guys, I've just gotten back into storm after about a year hiatus. I'm starting from the basics again, as I was running TNT (ANT w. Burning Wish package) but I find it to be really clunky, and not worth increasing my G1 matchup vs random hate cards. I've thrown / proxied together the basic deck in the primer, but I've got some preferred sideboard tech.

    Does this sideboard look ok for use with the beginner's Main deck listed in the primer?

    2x Massacre (Death and Taxes, Maverick, Stoneblade, MM decks)
    3x Abrupt Decay (Counterbalance decks, Chalice Decks, Gaddock Teeg, etc)
    2x Chain of Vapor (Teeg decks, Jund, Non-chalice hate permanents, Lands, Leyline)
    2x SDT (Miracles, other Control Decks, any Counterbalance deck, Chalice / Trinisphere decks)
    1x Empty the Warrens (Jund!, anything that could be running surgical or enough hate to make past in flames feel bad, sanctity decks)
    3x Xantid Swarm (Miracles, SDT control decks, merfolk)
    1x Surgical Extraction (Dredge, Mirror, Past in flames decks, miracles)
    1x Flusterstorm (Stifle decks, Flusterstorm decks, Mirror, combo decks in general)
    It looks solid.
    But be aware that the primer is not up to date and I assume that the beginner's list is a 4-Preordain-list which is worse that the one with one SDT main.
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  13. #2013
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Yeah I cut one preordain for a top. Thanks for looking it over!
    They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.

  14. #2014

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    It looks solid.
    But be aware that the primer is not up to date and I assume that the beginner's list is a 4-Preordain-list which is worse that the one with one SDT main.
    4 preordain is suboptimal unless you're in very specific metagame, you want to avoid cantrip-cantrip situations - Preordain into Preordain+Ponder, keep, draw Preordain , play Preordain, put 1 down draw Ponder is not how is Ant played imo, same with setup Ponder into Ponder+2 blanks is a shuffle not another Ponder... btw. 2 Gemstone mine 4 Preordain allstar on SCG again...

    Can't help it but SDT looks like a wasted slot to me... swapping Preordain for SDT feels like a cosmetic upgrade in 4 Preordain list even more so... play it main or don't play it at all

  15. #2015
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Thanks for the feedback guys I'll take a look at some more recent lists :)
    They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.

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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    What separates a good storm player vs a great storm player? I can usually do end with a winning record at our weekly tourneys. Then as soon as I take the deck to a larger tournament I always just brick on draws and never find tutors etc. etc. I could be doing something wrong here but I can't fix what I don't know is wrong. I understand that variance is a large part of the game, but what can I do to become that much better with the deck?

  17. #2017

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Howishotgun View Post
    What separates a good storm player vs a great storm player? I can usually do end with a winning record at our weekly tourneys. Then as soon as I take the deck to a larger tournament I always just brick on draws and never find tutors etc. etc. I could be doing something wrong here but I can't fix what I don't know is wrong. I understand that variance is a large part of the game, but what can I do to become that much better with the deck?
    Hard to say who is good and great, there is no objective threshold ... bad beats happen, and Ant is often humiliated more than others (seen Julian beat Ant w trollish RG brew yeasterday just putting bad creatures into play, same with Jacob Wilson and his "Pirate" themed troll deck and I almost lost to few standard decks myself) just because deck does not deliver, might be more obvious because you just do "nothing", this should however happen very few times in overall and I find bigger tournaments where you identity is not known much better enviroment...
    One would need to see you play to tell if you do something "wrong" and there would be plenty of views and arguments about that too... what makes a player better is dedication, experience, patience, feeling and selfcriticism for sure... some might be more important for Ant but these for sure make you a better player of any deck or in fact activity

  18. #2018
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    I know I am asking a very broad question any sort of feedback is great. One main question i have been trying to figure out is the following situation. You have everything you need in hand except the tutor. You are on your last cantrip and using said cantrip you see cantrip junk junk. You have no fetches in play, do you try to shuffle or keep the cantrip? I have been trying out doing both ways in for said situation and find its usually 50/50 in both ways from personal experience.

  19. #2019
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    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    how do you guys deal with stifle on the storm trigger?

  20. #2020

    Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Howishotgun View Post
    I know I am asking a very broad question any sort of feedback is great. One main question i have been trying to figure out is the following situation. You have everything you need in hand except the tutor. You are on your last cantrip and using said cantrip you see cantrip junk junk. You have no fetches in play, do you try to shuffle or keep the cantrip? I have been trying out doing both ways in for said situation and find its usually 50/50 in both ways from personal experience.
    Just think it through

    If you ponder and see blank blank ponder, you can either:
    a) draw the ponder and keep the blanks on top, cast the ponder to see 2 blanks plus a new card, and you can then shuffle to see another new card, so you have 2 potential new cards to look at
    b) just shuffle off the ponder to see 1 new card

    So keeping the ponder lets you see more of your deck but it also costs you another blue mana.

    If you ponder and see blank blank preordain then there wouldn't be much reason to not shuffle, because your preordain is just going to scry the 2 blanks to the bottom anyway. If you have a mana surplus then by putting the 2 blanks on the bottom and not shuffling them in you marginally increase the odds of your 1 mystery card being a tutor so in some situations it could be correct to do this.

    There's no magic formula, just think about maximising the number of new cards you get to see vs how much mana you are going to need vs how quickly you need to go off.

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