[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[David L Byer]

I am intrigued by all the discussions about Daze. I may very well try them myself. Also, I saw some ANT players lose badly on Stream against various Hate Bear decks. I was thinking to myself "Boy, Thing in the Ice would be awesome here". What do you guys think about running 4 Thing in the Ice in the sideboard as an answer to Hate Bear decks?

[Sloshthedark]

I am intrigued by all the discussions about Daze. I may very well try them myself. Also, I saw some ANT players lose badly on Stream against various Hate Bear decks. I was thinking to myself "Boy, Thing in the Ice would be awesome here". What do you guys think about running 4 Thing in the Ice in the sideboard as an answer to Hate Bear decks?

3 is enough, the biggest problem is the g3 creature dilemma in Storm also it targets different range of decks and has its own problems (Flickerwisp, Vial, removal) as any other antihate tech (Massacre, Pyroclasm, DoN, x, y..) and needs specific deckbuilding to run well (preferably multi tendrils setup)... not really stellar, palyable though

[Pdingo]

Hei guys
I played a Eternal Weekend Trial in Bern and get second:)
Played the Daze List;)
Match ups:

2:1 Sneak and Show
0:2 Jund mull to 5 and 2 Bs into lands and discard..
2:0 Miracles
2:0 Infect (Budget)
Now were 5 Rounds but just top 4..
So we drawet for the gamble cause i was 3th and the other ones are anyway first and second.
So after the 5 Round i lost the Gamble and get 5th.. but like 4 player are 31..First time this happened.
2 players conceded cause they aren't going to paris:)
Thanks again!

Semi:
2:1 Oops All Spells..i started and won g1 but g2 daze won haha and g3 he mulligend to 6 and he said go..daze wins again:P
Finals against my Teammate as known in the Burg delver treath (Afrosmile).
Lost 0:2..

G1 i was unsure.. Im on the draw..Burg delver can have 2 Counters in the starthand like daze and fow but it's rare..
So i keepet 2 DR,1 Petal ,1 IT, 2 Probes,1 Duress on the draw..normally i dont do that but here i was very very unsure cause i can draw a led ,more rit, a land or a petal and it's easy a win.
Would you keep it?
G2: Most epic Empty(storm 15) ever after i played duress discarded the Flusterstorm into pif where he had to play surgical exiling tutor so i ponder gamblet into a empty and still discarding his golgari charm..
So the Board now was like 30 1/1 Tokens and he had 1 land , 1 shaman and a flipped delver on his side..he had a turn and i'm on 6 Life! He drawet the bolt:P

So i get 1 bye and my teammate 2 byes so everybody is happy now:)

Greets

Pascal

[ScottW]

I am intrigued by all the discussions about Daze. I may very well try them myself. Also, I saw some ANT players lose badly on Stream against various Hate Bear decks. I was thinking to myself "Boy, Thing in the Ice would be awesome here". What do you guys think about running 4 Thing in the Ice in the sideboard as an answer to Hate Bear decks?

I have had 3 in my sideboard for the past month and I have been pretty happy. I'm a little conservative about bringing them in against too many decks but I think the utility against the Thalia decks is super strong. To the point of G3 creature problem, I feel that in those match-ups we are favored to win G1 so a good sideboard plan will make G2 stronger. You also really force your opponent to need additional answers. My favorite part is this card is defensive to some degree but is largely an aggressive play and will raise the quality of every discard and cantrip you play.

[Sloshthedark]

I have had 3 in my sideboard for the past month and I have been pretty happy. I'm a little conservative about bringing them in against too many decks but I think the utility against the Thalia decks is super strong. To the point of G3 creature problem, I feel that in those match-ups we are favored to win G1 so a good sideboard plan will make G2 stronger. You also really force your opponent to need additional answers. My favorite part is this card is defensive to some degree but is largely an aggressive play and will raise the quality of every discard and cantrip you play.

G3 problem - also sufferes from rapidly diminishing returns in the LGS / top 8s once scouted... you face awkward decisions like - do I board it in last round of swiss or do I save it for the top8? usually you can't afford more antiW cards

[ScottW]

G3 problem - also sufferes from rapidly diminishing returns in the LGS / top 8s once scouted... you face awkward decisions like - do I board it in last round of swiss or do I save it for the top8? usually you can't afford more antiW cards

Okay, I agree. However, what if they bring more answers to your sideboard card? This means they'll be prioritizing differently or better off, diluting their deck. You have likely played more games with it than I have. I have adopted it primarily because I've never liked Pyroclasm / Massacre. So this gives me another option.

[Sloshthedark]

Okay, I agree. However, what if they bring more answers to your sideboard card? This means they'll be prioritizing differently or better off, diluting their deck. You have likely played more games with it than I have. I have adopted it primarily because I've never liked Pyroclasm / Massacre. So this gives me another option.

it's not deluting the deck like in case of lets say Miracles hedging against you having Xantid Swarm/EtW, D+T usually have dead cards ... if you have Titi they might just switch 4 donothings for StP with near to no downside... them doing it can be irrelevant, can be blanked by discard but makes the tech significantly worse time to time ... alas there is no perfect solution towards hatebears, cards overlap differently among MUs, it's about the choice of the mix towards what you expect vs. what actually happens... tough choice

[Ronald Deuce]

There's a chance I won't phrase this too well, so if anyone wants to discuss it, I'd be glad to clarify.

The main thing that bothers me about running Daze or Thing in the Ice is that they may be excellent against specific things that hate on us, but they're also pretty awkward topdecks and they don't work as well when we've got the combo in hand/yard.

TitI has the same problem as Dark Confidant; we spend a turn making a dude, not filtering or setting up our draws, and not going off. We can afford to sandbag a Chain of Vapor, a Decay, or a Hurkyl's Recall even if we don't have anything useful to which we can apply it. Thing in the Ice needs to hit the board; in our hand, it does nothing.

The difficulty with Daze is that it's another hurdle we need to jump if we're trying to go off and we've got one in hand without an LED. I've found that LED is supremely important in the deck, and I don't like stressing it further by running more cards we need to ditch in order to combo off. I feel like there's a difference between Daze and Flusterstorm here, in that Fluster both can be pitched to itself (cf. the posts on the previous page or two) and it also cold-cocks opposing combo decks. I still don't like running either one, but I'd much prefer to be running Fluster in the 'board with Decay/Disfigure/Chain/whatever to combat hatebears, Chalices, etc.

Went 0-2 today with a bye (so 1-2, but seriously...). The matchup gods were cruel; five players and I got paired against Reanimator and Eldrazi. Eldrazi speaks for itself, and I misplayed game 1 versus Reanimator, but that matchup still feels really, really bad. Anybody got tips for fighting Reanimator? Hasn't made an appearance at the local in some time so I haven't practiced much against it. Feels like a really steep hill to climb—probably steeper than Miracles. I tried out a Sensei's Top in place of my singleton Petition, and it didn't have any impact. Fingers crossed, I can try it next time around for more match experience.

Played some games against Lands afterward, which was fun and interesting. Haven't had the opportunity to battle against it in ages (if ever), and we both got some much-needed practice. I think it can really nail us to the wall if it runs Thorn and Sphere of Resistance in the 'board, but otherwise it pretty much depends on good topdecks. Got to Chain my own artifacts to get lethal Storm when he had a Crop Rotation in hand, so that was refreshing.

[matsi883]

I approach the Reanimator matchup similarly to the Infect matchup. I've played the Infect matchup enough to be not really scared of it, mostly because Togores doesn't seem scared of it on stream. A well-placed Flusterstorm (I run Togores's list) or discard spell lets you survive until turns 4 or 5, where you can kill.

In my experiance, Lands is almost unloseable game 1 and then game 3 on the play once you know their hate piece for therapy. I've been beat by Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog and Tabernacle stops Empty, but besides that I don't think the deck can beat the card Lotus Petal

[Ronald Deuce]

I approach the Reanimator matchup similarly to the Infect matchup. I've played the Infect matchup enough to be not really scared of it, mostly because Togores doesn't seem scared of it on stream. A well-placed Flusterstorm (I run Togores's list) or discard spell lets you survive until turns 4 or 5, where you can kill.

In my experiance, Lands is almost unloseable game 1 and then game 3 on the play once you know their hate piece for therapy. I've been beat by Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog and Tabernacle stops Empty, but besides that I don't think the deck can beat the card Lotus Petal

Yeah, I think you're right about Lands. I probably didn't put it too well, but I meant that Lands needs to hit really good draws in order to box us in. I lost twice in five games, I think, and in one of them the Lands player landed three Spheres of Resistance and three Ports. Don't remember what happened in the other one; I think I made a poor Ad Nauseam and got Fired (I'd overboarded and hit 3+ Abrupt Decays rather than juice for my spells). I actually think Hurkyl's is good here, because they need to hit a whole lot of hate in order to stop us from using it. Ad Nauseam is great at circumventing Crop Rotation, and so's Chain of Vapor.

I've still not gotten around to testing Flusterstorm. Seems like it should be pretty useful in the matchup against Reanimator, though.

For some reason I've not had as much trouble against Berserk Poison as a lot of people seem to have had. Feels awfully similar to Delvers in many respects. Haven't faced it since maindecking Top instead of Petition, so can't say how I'm liking the lighter build in the matchup.

[thefringthing]

A Daze is seldom really stranded in your hand, because you can often Daze your own spell and pay for it. So rather than shutting off Infernal Tutor, it just introduces a 3-mana tax. Sometimes this will keep you from going off and other times it won't. Dazing your own spell is also a classic technique for enabling threshold, and in this case the tax is only 1 mana.

[.Ix]

Got to play around 12 games against Infect last night because the tourney didn't fire. Daze was great. It never got stuck in hand in any of those games, and I won a lot of games with it. Just feels so strong to be able to spend all mana on cantrips and discard and still be sort of safe.

Speaking of Infect, it wasn't exactly that bad, and the guy got a disproportionate amount of instant kills (4-3 preboard 3-2 postboard, many of them via godhands), but I'm not sure if I'm approaching the matchup correctly.

Should I bring in Decay? Flusterstorm? I just brought in Thoughtseize and 2 Decays over Preordain and 2 Therapy, but it kind of feels wrong. It can hit Cage and creatures but I don't know if we even want to kill creatures. I only drew decay once though, and I didnt get to cast it because I died too fast. I did see a lot of opportunities to Flusterstorm profitably, such as that one game where he had triple invigorate on his Turn 1 elf. Ugh.

[Ronald Deuce]

Got to play around 12 games against Infect last night because the tourney didn't fire. Daze was great. It never got stuck in hand in any of those games, and I won a lot of games with it. Just feels so strong to be able to spend all mana on cantrips and discard and still be sort of safe.

Good to hear!

My other concern about running Daze is getting stuck with a land in my hand when trying to get the show started. Did that happen to you at all?

I don't know if we even want to kill creatures.

I'm in the same spot; I feel like in my experience the only creatures for which it's been worth it to bring in removal are Mentors, hatebears, germ tokens, or Marit Lage (maybe rush-tokens too, like zombies from Dredge, monks from Miracles, or goblins from Belcher). Other creatures either don't have a big enough impact or aren't the cards that'll cost us the game.

Anybody else have some input?

[Sloshthedark]

Went 4-0 yesterday which puts me to 20-0 in the last five tournaments on Tuesday with ANT. I know this sounds wrong but I have some eternal witnesses.
I played Sloshstorm once again

Challenge accepted I'm on 15-0 streak in last 7 days so far

Good to hear!

My other concern about running Daze is getting stuck with a land in my hand when trying to get the show started. Did that happen to you at all?

I'm in the same spot; I feel like in my experience the only creatures for which it's been worth it to bring in removal are Mentors, hatebears, germ tokens, or Marit Lage (maybe rush-tokens too, like zombies from Dredge, monks from Miracles, or goblins from Belcher). Other creatures either don't have a big enough impact or aren't the cards that'll cost us the game.

Anybody else have some input?

My concern running it MD is it favors fast, compressed gameplay which doesn't necessarily happen or fit me, same with Daze SB, you have to have it T2 while reactive spells have potential to work until you're dead

regarding removal I see AD vs. Delver decks as a valid approach under theory that this breaks their best hands against Storm and lategame favors Storm... also against various byeblade decks (which seem to be not really existing atm) I usually have more removal than they have valid creatures.. in case of Infect I used to go after their creatures with discard and have KG as removal with intention of next leveling them on AD anticipation, I do 2-3x AD nowadays as I noticed more people do not board out their creatures which makes the "go after their combo" riskier, Become Immense is really the most annoying of topdecks

[.Ix]

Good to hear!

My other concern about running Daze is getting stuck with a land in my hand when trying to get the show started. Did that happen to you at all?

It didn't. Every time I've had more land than I could play, I had either a Brainstorm or an LED to get rid of it. I was also playing 14 lands that day. Switched the Bayou for a Preordain. Besides, if you really had to Daze a card, it likely would have been able to stop you from "getting the show started" as well.

I do 2-3x AD nowadays as I noticed more people do not board out their creatures which makes the "go after their combo" riskier, Become Immense is really the most annoying of topdecks

That is true. I guess if we do manage to get a creature with AD, it buys us a lot of time. I suppose a careful Infect pilot won't put all spells on the stack at the same time against ANT, so Flusterstorm wouldn't work anyway.

[cheerios]

I've been testing a grindier approach against infect lately (boarding in more tendrils, decays and flusterstorms) after noticing they overload on answers. They have a tendency to brainstorm away any creature they draw once they have a glistener elf on play. It's ok to take a few attacks against them but always remember that they can hit you with at least 5 infect per pump (invigorate or vines) on any given turn. I usually use my decays aggressively if I am within this range, or if they pump their creatures after declaring no blocks. I like the flusterstorms as protection against random stuff they do like surgical extraction and crop rotation for wasteland.

cheers

[Sloshthedark]

Challenge accepted I'm on 15-0 streak in last 7 days so far

19-0 atm...this game is weird I don't even feel like I'd play especially well... I won't play cards till EU Eternal Weekend so the attempt to tie Cabal Therapy's streak will be the first round there... if anyone was interested:

Jund 2-0
Infect 2-1

4C Deathblade 2-0
BURG 2-1
rg lands 2-0
4C Aggroloam 2-0

Gwb Maverick 2-1
4C Deathblade 2-0
BURG 2-1
rg lands 2-0
UR delver 2-0

Eldrazi 2-1
D+T 2-1
Gwb Maverick 2-0
4C Deathblade 2-1

Grixis delver 2-1
UR delver 2-0
Gwb Maverick 2-0
UW Miracles 2-1

playing the same hybrid list as always, SB:
3x AD
1x Adn
1x ToA
2x Extirpate
2x Massacre
2x Culling Scales (like it so far, good in my meta)
1x Bayou
2x KG/ 1KG + 1x Grudge
1x Notion Thief/Flusterstorm/Pyroblast

[CabalTherapy]

19-0 atm...this game is weird I don't even feel like I'd play especially well... I won't play cards till EU Eternal Weekend so the attempt to tie Cabal Therapy's streak will be the first round there...

Indeed, the game is weird. Sorry I have to disappoint you but I lost my 23rd round. So three to go to tie things up.

[ScottW]

I have been mulling over my 4C Loam MU lately, perhaps too much. However, I'm considering a blind T1 CT on your opponent's T0. At first thought, I was naming Teeg, CotV, GSZ, etc. but then have come to the consideration that Mox Diamond might be the right card. Obviously this is their acceleration into the above cards and gives them much needed color fixing. This depends on your hand of course but any thoughts? Sorry for the theory question...

[fangzie]

I have been mulling over my 4C Loam MU lately, perhaps too much. However, I'm considering a blind T1 CT on your opponent's T0. At first thought, I was naming Teeg, CotV, GSZ, etc. but then have come to the consideration that Mox Diamond might be the right card. Obviously this is their acceleration into the above cards and gives them much needed color fixing. This depends on your hand of course but any thoughts? Sorry for the theory question...

I don't think I like this. At least without having a pretty solid chance at going off t2. I don't want my opponent to be able to cast chalice on their second turn. I think I care less about them being able to get their colour fixing/ramp online, and more about stopping them from playing their lock pieces. I tend to think I don't really care if they get t2 knight or similar, I'm just going to try for a t3 win