[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Jsang]

What does ground seal come in against? Obviously drs decks, is reanimator too fast for it?

Also good against Snapcaster mage and surgical.

[ScottW]

What does ground seal come in against? Obviously drs decks, is reanimator too fast for it?

I'm not convinced it's best against all DRS decks. How about Delver? Should this be SB against BUG or Grixis Delver also dark maverick type decks? I always feel compelled to keep 2 PiF when playing GS for obvious reasons but there's Nihil Spellbomb. I see it's strength in Hymn/DRS decks and Snapcaster/Surgical. Obviously 4C Leo has all of these so it's the perfect MU for the card.

4C, Miracles, Blade maybe... anything else?

[fangzie]

I'm not convinced it's best against all DRS decks. How about Delver?

I definitely don't rate this against delver. Or Elves for that matter. I think you've hit the main 3 culprits, unless there's a snapcaster deck I've missed

[Togores]

Ground seal is really good vs elves. His plan a, b and c is to denny your graveyard

[Julian23]

Can confirm. Ground Seal is incredibly annoying. DRS is my main gameplan in the matchup.

[Ronald Deuce]

Ground seal is really good vs elves. His plan a, b and c is to denny your graveyard

Is it really worth it, though? I don't feel like I have a bad matchup there at all, and I rarely board much of anything except 2 CHAINZ. Maybe a Fatal Push too.

Drawing a card is nice, though, and I've had my share of losses to Deathrite.

[Nealdrox]

I won’t leave the house without Ground Seal x2 nowadays, especially for big events where the 4C Leovold and Grixis Delver decks come out to play.

[FlyingDelver]

So against which matchups would you bring Ground Seal in? Any DRS one is a no brained, but for the rest? Do you always bring it in if you expect Surgical (which basically any deck can run). E.g. Do you bring it in against DnT? (since they can run surgical) Or do you bring it in against Stone Blade (Snapcaster and Surgical)? Finding it pretty hard to determine a line where and where not to bring it in.

[Miscanthus]

So against which matchups would you bring Ground Seal in? Any DRS one is a no brained, but for the rest? Do you always bring it in if you expect Surgical (which basically any deck can run). E.g. Do you bring it in against DnT? (since they can run surgical) Or do you bring it in against Stone Blade (Snapcaster and Surgical)? Finding it pretty hard to determine a line where and where not to bring it in.

FWIW, having now played approximately 75 games with Ground Seal in the sideboard, my experiences with it so far have been:
-If you see a Deathrite Shaman G1, rule of thumb is bring it in for G2 and G3. These are very popular cards nowadays, so this happens a lot. Also, in my experience these decks tend to use Surgical Extraction quite a bit.
-If you see a Snapcaster Mage G1, but no other cards that make use of the graveyard (such as UWr Stoneblade for example), do not bring it in for game 2. Instead, wait and see what they bringing against you. If you see or suspect they sided in several Surgical Extractions, then bring Ground Seal for G3 if need be.
-If it is a deck such as DnT, do not bring it in unless you see or suspect G2 that they really boarded heavily on graveyard hate (4x Surgical Extraction + something else relevant, for example).
-Bring them in against Reanimator. Take out Preordains for them. They are slow here, but less so than you might think with Lotus Petals and your discard spells, and surprisingly effective when they do land (they generally need to get an Exhume to get around it, and they are usually slower/less effective at searching for an answer than you are at sculpting a winning hand).
Hope that's helpful.

[fangzie]

Ground seal is really good vs elves. His plan a, b and c is to denny your graveyard

Isn't it easier to just try to race them than spend turn 2 playing out ground seal?

[FlyingDelver]

FWIW, having now played approximately 75 games with Ground Seal in the sideboard, my experiences with it so far have been:
-If you see a Deathrite Shaman G1, rule of thumb is bring it in for G2 and G3. These are very popular cards nowadays, so this happens a lot. Also, in my experience these decks tend to use Surgical Extraction quite a bit.
-If you see a Snapcaster Mage G1, but no other cards that make use of the graveyard (such as UWr Stoneblade for example), do not bring it in for game 2. Instead, wait and see what they bringing against you. If you see or suspect they sided in several Surgical Extractions, then bring Ground Seal for G3 if need be.
-If it is a deck such as DnT, do not bring it in unless you see or suspect G2 that they really boarded heavily on graveyard hate (4x Surgical Extraction + something else relevant, for example).
-Bring them in against Reanimator. Take out Preordains for them. They are slow here, but less so than you might think with Lotus Petals and your discard spells, and surprisingly effective when they do land (they generally need to get an Exhume to get around it, and they are usually slower/less effective at searching for an answer than you are at sculpting a winning hand).
Hope that's helpful.

Seems good to me, will try that out today, thanks a lot!

[FlyingDelver]

Had an ok time today at my LGSs FNM. Went 2-2 loosing to Esper Delver and 4 Colour Leovold. Hymn was a beating that game and I found it very tough to work through it. How do you guys approach the match in terms of gameplay when you expect Hymn? Do you play out Petals/LEDs or do you keep Brainstorms for protecting purposes or the like? Am just not sure how to beat Hymn from 4 colour Leovold.

[Miscanthus]

Had an ok time today at my LGSs FNM. Went 2-2 loosing to Esper Delver and 4 Colour Leovold. Hymn was a beating that game and I found it very tough to work through it. How do you guys approach the match in terms of gameplay when you expect Hymn? Do you play out Petals/LEDs or do you keep Brainstorms for protecting purposes or the like? Am just not sure how to beat Hymn from 4 colour Leovold.

Play out your Lotus Petals and LED's. Protect tutors and rituals with Brainstorm as best you can. If you have Flusterstorms bring those in (they can be decent at stopping Hymn, K. Command, and other such nonsense).

[FlyingDelver]

Play out your Lotus Petals and LED's. Protect tutors and rituals with Brainstorm as best you can. If you have Flusterstorms bring those in (they can be decent at stopping Hymn, K. Command, and other such nonsense).

Alright, seems good to me, will focus on that one next time, thanks!

On another note, I set up a little bit of a SB plan for the most common matchups I am going to expect in my meta, can you guys spot the errors and suggest better decisions?

Here is my list, to note:

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion Eye's Diamond
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Preordain
3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Dark Petition
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Ground Seal
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Night's Whisper
2 Dread of Night
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
2 Flusterstorm


Is this list appropriate for a fair meta?

My meta contains a lot of fair decks, lot of delver variants and some 4 colour leovold. So lots of grindy matchups. And there is a decent amount of DnT too. so here is my SB plan for some matchups:

4 colour leovold:
-2 Preordain
-1 Swamp
-2 Cabal Ritual
-2 lotus petal
-1 Dark petition
+2 Decay
+2 Ground Seal
+2 Fluster
+1 Night's Whisper
+1 Xantid Swarm

I feel like I have alot in my SB to bring in, but not sure if I want to cut so many rituals/petals. Is this overkill?

DnT:
-3 Duress
-2 Preordain
+2 Chain of Vapor
+2 Dread of Night
+1 Echoing Truth

Is bringing in Decay here a good idea? Also what about Hurkyl's?

Grixis Delver:
-2 Preordain
-1 Cabal Ritual
-2 Lotus Petal
+2 Ground Seal
+1 Xantid Swarm
+2 Flusterstorm

Bug Delver:
-2 Preordain
-2 Cabal Ritual
-2 Lotus Petal
+2 Ground Seal
+1 Xantid Swarm
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Night's Whisper

Here I tought I want extra CA since I expect Hymn from Bug delver.

UWR Stoneblade:
-2 Preordain
-1 Swamp
-1 Lotus Petal
-1 Cabal Ritual
+2 Ground Seal
+3 Decay

Do you also want CoV here to bounce Canonist?

[Sloshthedark]

Ground Seal - so what if the Leovold deck plays Spellbomb instead is SE?

[Gros]

Ground Seal - so what if the Leovold deck plays Spellbomb instead is SE?

I played some matches vs 4c where he played leyline of the void or spellbomb, in those games I had Ground Seal out and it still get me advantages in form or reducing his clock shutting down his DRSs or shutting down his Snapcaster interactions, btw i don't know if it is the case to keep those in in g3 if we see leylines in G2 but for me it still overperformed in the short run

[Mastikor]

Just went 5-1 on local tournament. List:

4 Infernal Tutor
2 Dark Petition
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Past in Flames
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp

SB

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Ground Seal
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Fatal Push
1 Massacare
1 Flusterstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Night's Whisper

Matchups were: Elves (2-0), Elves (2-1), Czech pile (2-0), Goblins (2-1), Czech pile (2-0), BUG Death's Shadow (1-2). List felt very solid, Seals were decent.

[FlyingDelver]

Just went 5-1 on local tournament. List:

4 Infernal Tutor
2 Dark Petition
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Past in Flames
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp

SB

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Ground Seal
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Fatal Push
1 Massacare
1 Flusterstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Night's Whisper

Matchups were: Elves (2-0), Elves (2-1), Czech pile (2-0), Goblins (2-1), Czech pile (2-0), BUG Death's Shadow (1-2). List felt very solid, Seals were decent.

Can you share your SB plans for your matchups you faced? Also how did you execute the Czech Pile matchup? For me this matchup seems really hard.

[Mastikor]

Ok, but I improvised a little :) In general (as far as I remember):

Elves: -3 Duress, -1 Pif, -1 Petition/Cabal Rit. +2 Ground Seal, +Chain, +Push, +Echoing T.
Czech pile: -1 Petition, -1 Ponder, -2 Cabal Rit. +2 Seal, + Fluster, + Whisper. Also tried -2 discard +2 Swarm, wasn't impressed.
Goblins: -3 Duress, + Massacre, + Echoing + Chain/Push/Decay
BUG Delver/Shadow: -1 Petition - 2 Cabal Rit. - 2 Discard, +2 Xantid, + Carpet, + Fluster, + Whisper

The Czech pile match doesn't seem to be that hard. I think 2 PiF are the way to go, they give us much more resilience. 7 discard are also important. Ground seals are nice addition. I think it's important to be fast, if we drag into long games they'll outvalue us. They are cold to EtW main, and I think it's solid postboard too (especially if they don't gear up). I never got to cast Whisper, but I like the idea to offset their Hymns a little...

[FlyingDelver]

Ok, but I improvised a little :) In general (as far as I remember):

Elves: -3 Duress, -1 Pif, -1 Petition/Cabal Rit. +2 Ground Seal, +Chain, +Push, +Echoing T.
Czech pile: -1 Petition, -1 Ponder, -2 Cabal Rit. +2 Seal, + Fluster, + Whisper. Also tried -2 discard +2 Swarm, wasn't impressed.
Goblins: -3 Duress, + Massacre, + Echoing + Chain/Push/Decay
BUG Delver/Shadow: -1 Petition - 2 Cabal Rit. - 2 Discard, +2 Xantid, + Carpet, + Fluster, + Whisper

The Czech pile match doesn't seem to be that hard. I think 2 PiF are the way to go, they give us much more resilience. 7 discard are also important. Ground seals are nice addition. I think it's important to be fast, if we drag into long games they'll outvalue us. They are cold to EtW main, and I think it's solid postboard too (especially if they don't gear up). I never got to cast Whisper, but I like the idea to offset their Hymns a little...

Thanks for the reply. Don't you want Decay/Push for Leovold against Czech Pile? I think ETW preboard seems not like the best, often they run Toxic Deluges mainboard, which makes it either postboard better or generally not the best if they keep it in.