[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[fangzie]

My friend and I casually test games fairly often and it usually involves throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Long story short, I tried a Sylvan Library in the SB for grindy decks like Pile and other Hymn-type decks. It was absolute gas. Anyone tried it or thought about it?

Nope, but I might have to. Will try running it back in a league and see what happens. To be honest, though, I kinda ope it's bad. The Legends version is pretty expensive...

[Ronald Deuce]

My friend and I casually test games fairly often and it usually involves throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Long story short, I tried a Sylvan Library in the SB for grindy decks like Pile and other Hymn-type decks. It was absolute gas. Anyone tried it or thought about it?

I've definitely considered it, but I never tested it because I'm still not too hot on the "permanents with mana costs" thing in this deck. Might be worth a try, though; there's nobody playing Czech Pile around here, but occasionally discard rears its ugly head.

It also feels too slow against decks like BReanimator, but maybe I'm wrong about that; I haven't played the matchup in some time.

Were you running a singleton? If not, how many, and what were you replacing?

[fangzie]

Might be worth a try, though; there's nobody playing Czech Pile around here, but occasionally discard rears its ugly head.

It also feels too slow against decks like BReanimator, but maybe I'm wrong about that; I haven't played the matchup in some time.

I was actually thinking about trying it against miracles and blade as well. You're right in that seems awful against fast decks, but against slow decks that play canonist/hymn it could be great. I understand not wanting to play permanents, however.

[niv]

I played a couple matches against Czech pile today at FNM.
I'm currently on the grixis list that's listed at the Brainstorm show site, that they talked about in the podcast.

Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about green at first thought (though, I know many have had success with it, and I'm really a no-name around here). Admittedly, I'm pretty rusty on Storm (I ended up loosing games 2 and 3 to Czech), but I feel like stuff like ground seal is pretty good, but I'm not sure how I feel about softening the manabase since they can play wasteland if they want; I feel too often there's matches where getting a nonbasic wasted can set you back too far when you want to aggressively cantrip, especially when you wanna jam as many as possible before a Leovold might hit.

I honestly don't think our main gameplan is horrible against Czech, games 2 and 3 we just have to be able to get rid of Leovold. I think from the BS Show list my immediate thoughts would be -1 Chain of Vapor, -1 Hurkyl's Recall, +2 Fatal Push.
I also think that shoving 2 Preordain in that list somehow might be better if your meta is full of 'fair' decks to help sculpt a good hand faster, but I rather like the 7 discard spells.

These are just my thoughts on the Czech matchup after just playing several games. I really feel like we do have the advantage against them, especially since the only card in their deck we REALLY care about G1 is Hymn, and sometimes DRS and 2 fatal push for some Duresses G2/3 is strong enough to not warrant anything else. Maybe I just haven't jammed enough games against it, but those are my initial thoughts.

Is ground seal truly that good? There were a few matches were I could have seen wanting to play it against Deathrite, but I'm not sure about it at the moment. I feel like if we're aggressively digging/tutoring for it we can just dig for a line that wins past DRS anyhow.

[fangzie]

Is ground seal truly that good? There were a few matches were I could have seen wanting to play it against Deathrite, but I'm not sure about it at the moment. I feel like if we're aggressively digging/tutoring for it we can just dig for a line that wins past DRS anyhow.

Firstly, while pile can play wasteland, I'd expect it typically not to. I also don't feel wasteland is really much of a threat in the matchup. If they're wastelanding, they're burning a card that could have been far more productive (Snap-Hymn for example, my actual nightmare scenario). Operating off 2 lands isn't hard, and I'll normally prioritise non-basics in this matchup anyway.

As for how good ground seal is in the matchup...I've only recently caved and tried it, having given it a go previously as a tool a while ago to beat snap/surgical out of miracles. And it's actually great against pile. They're a graveyard deck, in some ways much like us. Only everything they do targets. So we can break symmetry with ground seal, denying them access to their own graveyard while still having access to our own. Hymn is a lot less intimidating when you're able to make use of the discarded cards regardless. Instead, you just have to beat whatever (typically slow) clock they put down. As for wheher it's worth playing, this will depend on your local meta. Although if you're playing online, I'd say almost definitely

[Togores]

I usualy sided a swamp out vs pile. But lately ig thehy have wastelnads. Or I expect them (mostly losts play them nowadays) I put the swamp in and play 61. Thats makes me have about 14,5 lands wich is what I want.

Also ground seal is mvp vs all snapcaster decks.

[Gros]

I usualy sided a swamp out vs pile. But lately ig thehy have wastelnads. Or I expect them (mostly losts play them nowadays) I put the swamp in and play 61. Thats makes me have about 14,5 lands wich is what I want.

Also ground seal is mvp vs all snapcaster decks.

Recently I played a lot vs. 4c decks using the boarding plan you suggested in page 289 or so of this thread which involves cutting 2 LPs and 1-2 LEDs, I have to start that the plan seems really solid and I thank you for that but I encountered a minor issue with that: AN with this post board configuration is a lot less reliable, do you think that keeping in the second PiF and cutting AN would be too an "all-in" into late game PiF protected with Ground seal plan?

[Togores]

Also I have been trying to keep bussines like so:

Adn
Toa
1 pif
Etw.

Then dependin I have sometimes 2nd pif or dp. Im not sure what plan is better. The good thing when you cut petition is that removing a cabal ritual is pretty safe. I usualy like to cut a Cabal ritual but not when I keep DP in the deck.

Usualy adn is a t1-2 wincon. And like most players think its not a kill the turn you play it. I usualy pass the turn a lot. Last week I won locals finals vs 4 color by playing adn t2 against his leo and drs. Passing the turn and setting up a win the next turn that included playing tendrills on myself for 18 to get hellbent and be able to infernal for led to recast pif.

[Gros]

Also I have been trying to keep bussines like so:

Adn
Toa
1 pif
Etw.

Then dependin I have sometimes 2nd pif or dp. Im not sure what plan is better. The good thing when you cut petition is that removing a cabal ritual is pretty safe. I usualy like to cut a Cabal ritual but not when I keep DP in the deck.

Usualy adn is a t1-2 wincon. And like most players think its not a kill the turn you play it. I usualy pass the turn a lot. Last week I won locals finals vs 4 color by playing adn t2 against his leo and drs. Passing the turn and setting up a win the next turn that included playing tendrills on myself for 18 to get hellbent and be able to infernal for led to recast pif.

Okay, thank you, i have one last question regarding the grixis delver matchup, do you usually board in any decays or ground seals ?

[Togores]

Ground seal only vs snapcasters and reanimator or elves.

Yes I board 2 spot removal. Depending what I have.

Push first, then sudden shock or pyroclasm if I play 2 red lands, decays if none of the other available

[Kodieyost]

Caleb Scherer just ran it back to another Storm Top 8 appearance!

I’ve been on Spanish Inquisition for a long time playing at local events only, but wanting to start playing legacy at a higher level. I’m thinking ANT is the best competitive transition for me, so I’ll be putting the deck together here shortly. Any advice on where I can learn the ins-and-outs of the deck?

[Jax-]

Top8ed at MLL#2 in Milan this past week (over 50 players). My maindeck is 14 lands (Scherer manabase) 4 preordain 1 PiF 1 ToA and 1 AdN. My board had 1 Tropical for play 2 GS and 1 Swarm (useless all the event), 2 Push 2 Volley. I won every g1 and lost to Grixis Control 2-1 in top8. The deck is crazy strong, preordains are amazing, won a lot of games with AdN due to the lower cc.

[taconaut]

Top8ed at MLL#2 in Milan this past week (over 50 players). My maindeck is 14 lands (Scherer manabase) 4 preordain 1 PiF 1 ToA and 1 AdN. My board had 1 Tropical for play 2 GS and 1 Swarm (useless all the event), 2 Push 2 Volley. I won every g1 and lost to Grixis Control 2-1 in top8. The deck is crazy strong, preordains are amazing, won a lot of games with AdN due to the lower cc.

I'm interested in seeing your list in full; preordain is easily my least favorite card in the deck, and I only play one because it feels like I have to, so I'd like to know what's been working for you with them.

[Jax-]

2 Sea
1 Volc
2 Island
1 Swamp
8 Fetch

4 LED
4 Petal
4 DR
4 CR

4 Brain
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Probe

4 Duress
3 Therapy

4 IT
1 PiF
1 ToA
1 AdN

--------
1 Tropical
2 Ground Seal
1 Swarm
2 Hurkyl
1 Chain
2 Volley
2 Push
1 EtW
1 Dark Confidant
2 Surgical Extraction

4th Duress over Therapy because it makes me feel more confident with so many different counters around.
Confidant should have been Flusterstorm but I didn't had them , Swarm will prolly become Fluster number 2 or 3rd Ground Seal.
I absolutely need 3rd Hurkyl because there are so many Prisons and Lands around.
Tropical seems a bad slot but I love 2nd Island so much.

Preordain basically increase consistence, by A LOT, they give gas after opponent discards , fill the graveyard FAST even against a turn 1 DRS, I always have something to do with my islands, sometimes the deck just die to himself if forced into topdecking , preordains prevent that. Also it makes easier to have always in hand what we need. I think that the cantrip into cantrip into cantrip fear is a false myth. It could happen sometimes, sure, but I think its still better than opening an hand without any cantrip/business or only one of them and it gets discarded and now you are suddently in topdeck mode and hoping for the good draw.

[Togores]

I dont like many preordains because your just keep casting cantrips into cantrips and waste so much time, but I understand the 2 island 14 lands deck where you just put yourself the first 2-3 turns in sculting instead of having more bussiness.

[Jax-]

I dont like many preordains because your just keep casting cantrips into cantrips and waste so much time, but I understand the 2 island 14 lands deck where you just put yourself the first 2-3 turns in sculting instead of having more bussiness.

Yup, also I won a lot with Ad Nauseam because my average CC is so low, I think that, with a maindeck like mine, Ad Nauseam strenght is on par with the Ad Nauseam casted by TES, 2 more 4CC card and no moxes but no red needed is huge.

[Ronald Deuce]

Once again seconding (thirding?) hate for Preordain. I've come around to the need for a second one simply because it's important to get as much digging power as possible out of Past in Flames, but if there were any better card, I'd be running it. I've considered junking the second one for another discard a few times, but whenever I test seven discards maindeck I feel like I topdeck them at the worst times and can't get off the ground.

Back when Chalices were running around and screwing us all over the place, I'd considered running a 2-cmc cantrip like Peer through Depths, but it felt like I would just make the deck worse (Chalice is a phenomenally well designed card! Oh, wait—).

For people running a singleton, what replaces the second copy?

[taconaut]

For people running a singleton, what replaces the second copy?

I play basically the same mainboard the 4 preordain guy does, except I have:

-3 preordain
+1 Badlands
+1 Chrome Mox
+1 Dark Petition
I might also have more CTs than Duresses, but I forget.

My sideboard is also a little different.

I appreciate the idea of making ad nauseams better, but I think the Chrome Mox and Dark Petition help with that more than additional preordains would - Petition hits for more, but doesn't need an LED to work, and lets you get whatever you need to combo, and Chrome Mox is an additional IMS, which I find to be the biggest factor in how successful my AdNs are (especially early ones without mana floating).

[boneclub24]

I just picked up the deck not too long ago. Finally got the last pieces I needed and ran my first event with it on Monday.

I'm running the Scherer version, including the Empty main. I've been interested in slotting in a Chrome Mox main but I haven't been sure where. Rain of Filth or the 2nd Preordain jump out as the easy cuts, but I'm not 100% sure. Or maybe Mox main is garbage.

Any input?

[CabalTherapy]

Playing Chrome Mox in ANT is like running track with crutches or driving a monter truck blindfolded.
Theoretically speaking you could do it but...