[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Lemnear]

Hi,

This might sound a little stupid, but why do you board in Chain of Vapor instead of Abrupt decay against Death & Taxes?

Thalia + Wasteland + Rishadan Port = you'll never get to pay for Decay

Few pages back there was discussion about this after I told my plans and after that I think that the discussion after that was really helpful. Now I would almost never ever side gitaxian probe out due to what Lemnear instructed.

I'm sure BJ does his best to fill the gaps in the primer and SB guides need to be there. It's amusing that peeps are too lazy to browse through 5 pages (discussion started on page 1 about sb'ing) to find their questions already answered, but instead write a wall of text with wrong SB instructions


Own topic:

Carpet don't pull it's weight imo. Too many times Tempo archtypes can work off a single land (sometimes with DRS) to turn Carpet into a manastone in a deck that is already 40% mana (hyperbole!). I guess it's maybe time to return to Pyroblast in this storm-subtype as well to battle Delver, Clique, Counterbalance, Meddling Mage, TNN, S&T, stupid Painter pilots, etc. with an increased Splash of red mana and cut green/Decays completely unless you fear MUD

[aaronm678]

•VS BANT NEMESIS 5
-2 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Duress
-1 Cabal Ritual
-1 Preordain

+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Xantid Swarm

You should probably prioritize cutting duress here and leave in Gitaxian Probe. Xantid Swarm doesn't really seem needed - these decks typically run 1 hard counter (Force), and typically they SB permanent disruption. I'd do:
-3 Duress
+3 Abrupt Decay

•VS BELCHER 2
-2 Preordain
+2 Chain of Vapor

You want all 3 Chains on the draw here, cutting a therapy. On the play, Therapy is probably better.

•VS BUG DELVER 3
-2 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Lim-Dul's Vault
+3 Carpet of Flowers

I think you board out GP too much - it's one of your more powerful cards against the tempo decks. I'd cut Preordains here over GP.

• CANADIAN 3
-2 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Lim-Dul's Vault
+3 Carpet of Flowers

Ditto -- I'd cut preordain here over GP.

• VS DEATHBLADE 5
-2 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Duress
-1 Cabal Ritual
-1 Preordain

+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Xantid Swarm

I'd cut LDV over GP here. Also note - if you don't see Meddling Mage after G2, cut AD for duress, ritual, and GP. MM is getting more and more popular, but AD is going to be completely dead if you bring it in and they don't have it.

• VS DREDGE 0

-3 Therapy
+3 Chain

You can often set them back a couple turns by bouncing Narcomeobas and Ichorids on draw step, which is really important, since this matchup is a straight race.

• VS ELVES 0
No Sideboard

Elves almost always brings in some sort of permanent based disruption (Thorn of Amethyst of Gaddock Teeg). Cut Duresses for Chain at the very least, and possibly consider cutting additional discard for AD.

•VS ESPER STONEBLADE 5
-2 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Duress
-1 Cabal Ritual
-1 Preordain

+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Xantid Swarm

This deck is identical to Deathblade as far as we're concerned. Cut AD if they don't have MM.

• VS GOBLINS 0

No Sideboard

Goblins very often brings in Thalia or Thorn of Amethyst. Cut Duress for Chains.

• VS JUND 0

No sideboard
😱 Catene di Mefistofele (Chain of V)
😱 Mindbreak Trap

Duress isn't great here - I'd bring in CoV and put duress back in only if they have MBT (it's a very, very uncommon SB card)

• VS OMITELL 5
-3 Cabal Therapy
-3 Duress

+3 Chain of Vapor
+3 Xantid Swarm

These decks are very, very weak to Discard, and Chain doesn't do anything to them, and the matchup isn't really much of a race - we have inevitibility, I like playing this matchup to just force them to discard their kill conditions and kill them eventually. I'd do -2 Preordain, -1 GP, +3 Xantid.

If you see Leyline G2, then you can board this way - but I wouldn't just automatically cut all of your discard just because you might see Leyline - it's definitely not a given that they're SBing it, and if they aren't, this SB is awful.

•PATRIOT 6
-2 Gitaxian Proble
-2 Preordain
-1 Cabal Ritual
-1 Lim-Dul's Vault
+3 Carpet of Flowers
+3 Abrupt Decay

Don't cut GP here, just like the other tempo decks.

• VS REANIMATOR 2
-1 Lim-Dul's Vault
-1 Preordain

+2 Chain of Vapor

Chain doesn't really do anything here, and Xantid is excellent (There isn't really any point in bouncing a Griselbrand or Iona - if they've reanimated one of these guys, we aren't winning)

• VS SNEAK & SHOW 5
-3 Cabal Therapy
-2 Duress

+3 Chain of Vapor
+3 Xantid Swarm

Same as Omnitell - you definitely don't want to cut all of your discard here - they're very weak to it. Chain of Vapor is almost a straight blank, since this deck almost never SBs Leyline (even less often than Omnitell)

[davelin]

Thalia + Wasteland + Rishadan Port = you'll never get to pay for Decay



I'm sure BJ does his best to fill the gaps in the primer and SB guides need to be there. It's amusing that peeps are too lazy to browse through 5 pages (discussion started on page 1 about sb'ing) to find their questions already answered, but instead write a wall of text with wrong SB instructions


Own topic:

Carpet don't pull it's weight imo. Too many times Tempo archtypes can work off a single land (sometimes with DRS) to turn Carpet into a manastone in a deck that is already 40% mana (hyperbole!). I guess it's maybe time to return to Pyroblast in this storm-subtype as well to battle Delver, Clique, Counterbalance, Meddling Mage, TNN, S&T, stupid Painter pilots, etc. with an increased Splash of red mana and cut green/Decays completely unless you fear MUD

I've seen some lists running counters (such as Swan Song or Flusterstorm) in the SB which always seems to be contradictory (nombo with LED/IT). Curious if these measures have been helpful, I haven't seen much discussion on when they are brought in and their usefulness.

[Lemnear]

I've seen some lists running counters (such as Swan Song or Flusterstorm) in the SB which always seems to be contradictory (nombo with LED/IT). Curious if these measures have been helpful, I haven't seen much discussion on when they are brought in and their usefulness.

Flusterstorm and Swan Song are pretty passive, but to the nature of ANT being a bit slower than Counterbalance/S&T/etc. bridging the gap between their combo/hate and your critical turn is valid.

Pyroblast adresses most of the cards you fear (sans Thalia/Cannonist) on the Stack but also on the table unlike the blue counters.

[kiwi]

Nowadays is very strange to see in ant's sideboard cards against the graveyard, but I'm thinking about packing 3 o 4 surgical extractions, tinfins and reanimator are bad pairings on other hand now is very strange to see leylines of sanctity in the sideboards, maybe is time to change chain of vapor for better removal against hatebears or taking some slot for graveyard hate. (I know that reanimator and tin fins arent tier 1 decks but if you are going to play a big tournament is easy to be paired against them im some round)

[bjholmes3]

OP looks nicer now. Adding further SB guides for November meta later tonight. Been real busy studying, reading like 6+ hours per day. Needless to say, one doesn't want to write a primer after that.

[bondfan]

Nowadays is very strange to see in ant's sideboard cards against the graveyard, but I'm thinking about packing 3 o 4 surgical extractions, tinfins and reanimator are bad pairings on other hand now is very strange to see leylines of sanctity in the sideboards, maybe is time to change chain of vapor for better removal against hatebears or taking some slot for graveyard hate. (I know that reanimator and tin fins arent tier 1 decks but if you are going to play a big tournament is easy to be paired against them im some round)

It depends how specific you want to get with your hate. Karakas is the best hate against Reanimator but Surgical has use against other GY decks and Storm mirrors.

[DarkJester]

I play 2 Surgical, 1 Karakas atm for the Reanimator-MU, Karakas is good against D'n'T and Surgical is good againt Dredge and the Mirros as well.

[Said-In-Contest]

Hi,

This might sound a little stupid, but why do you board in Chain of Vapor instead of Abrupt decay against Death & Taxes?

Because decay has some problems:

1) it costs G and B...especially G is not easy to keep against a denial deck like D&T!

2) it costs cc2...this means that with a Thalia on board you have to pay 3! Again, considering the land denial that D&T can do, it is not something amazing

Chain of vapor, on the other hand, is cheap, versatile, and it might be used to increase the storm count in those scenarios in which you draw it and it have no hate to bounce (decay, in the same spot, is just a dead card)

Moreover, I use to combo off against D&T with always a U open/in pool...this because if they have a vial at 2/3 or 3 mana open, they would be able to put a hatebear onto play at instant speed...at this point, you might just lose the game...but a chain of vapor can save you!
The same thing cannot be done (most of the time I mean) with decay: leaving open a B and a G mana is quite rare to be done...

I hope I've been able to explain my point!
Ps even Adam Prosak says the same things about decay vs hatebear decks :)

[Griselpuff]

What are others thoughts of Burning ANT? I think Burning Wish is good vs. Meddling Mage, not to mention giving you ways to kill Teeg, Chalice, Leyline and CB.

I'm currently playing the following targets:

Empty the Warrens
Grapeshot
Grim Tutor
Massacre
Meltdown
Past in Flames
Reverent Silence
Tendrils of Agony
Thoughtseize

[Final Fortune]

Thalia + Wasteland + Rishadan Port = you'll never get to pay for Decay



I'm sure BJ does his best to fill the gaps in the primer and SB guides need to be there. It's amusing that peeps are too lazy to browse through 5 pages (discussion started on page 1 about sb'ing) to find their questions already answered, but instead write a wall of text with wrong SB instructions


Own topic:

Carpet don't pull it's weight imo. Too many times Tempo archtypes can work off a single land (sometimes with DRS) to turn Carpet into a manastone in a deck that is already 40% mana (hyperbole!). I guess it's maybe time to return to Pyroblast in this storm-subtype as well to battle Delver, Clique, Counterbalance, Meddling Mage, TNN, S&T, stupid Painter pilots, etc. with an increased Splash of red mana and cut green/Decays completely unless you fear MUD

I more or less came to the same conclusion regarding Pyroblast replacing Abrupt Decay in TES at least, Counterbalance is played in one deck compared to Meddling Mage, Vendillion Clique and counter spells and the mana efficiency of the card is just absolutely critical. I also think people under estimate just how useful being able to counter their Ponder/Brainstorm in order to keep them off land and counters is or counter Delver of Secrets to keep you off a clock.

[anakyn]

I more or less came to the same conclusion regarding Pyroblast replacing Abrupt Decay in TES at least, Counterbalance is played in one deck compared to Meddling Mage, Vendillion Clique and counter spells and the mana efficiency of the card is just absolutely critical. I also think people under estimate just how useful being able to counter their Ponder/Brainstorm in order to keep them off land and counters is or counter Delver of Secrets to keep you off a clock.

How do you handle Chalice @1 without Decay?

[Lemnear]

How do you handle Chalice @1 without Decay?

You can't. You'll gamble for not facing MUD

[Final Fortune]

There's no reason the deck can't use more specific removal or bounce like Wipe Away, Echoing Truth or Shattering Spree, if you're not playing Green then you have a lot of new found SB space. Also I don't think playing Pyroblast necessarily means that you can't play green as well, I just don't SB in Abrupt Decay over Pyroblast in any blue matchups at this point because it's too linear in comparison.

[CabalTherapy]

You can't. You'll gamble for not facing MUD

Cast cantrips till threshold and use Cabal Rituals.

[davelin]

You can't. You'll gamble for not facing MUD

It's not favorable but with Cabal Rits, LEDs and Petals, it's still entirely possible to beat Chalice @ 1. I have, and I'm sure many others have done this.

[Lemnear]

Because finding 2+ Cabal Rituals, 1+ LED plus an Infernal without any cantrips is a realistic scenario? We all know such stupidness CAN happen, but arguing with such stuff is laughable at best. I take this discussion serious

[davelin]

Because finding 2+ Cabal Rituals, 1+ LED plus an Infernal without any cantrips is a realistic scenario? We all know such stupidness CAN happen, but arguing with such stuff is laughable at best. I take this discussion serious

Again I'm not saying it's likely but it's a more likely scenario than just saying Chalice @ 1 is unbeatable. On the play without a sol-land from their side you have the opportunity to cast two cantrips (maybe more) to find your outs. Or you Duress/Therapy away their first and they need a couple of turns to land their second. Just saying Chalice @ 1 doesn't equal GG for them.

And why isn't 2x LED + plus Infernal or 1x LED and 1X CR plus Infernal good enough for the win?

[Lemnear]

Again I'm not saying it's likely but it's a more likely scenario than just saying Chalice @ 1 is unbeatable. On the play without a sol-land from their side you have the opportunity to cast two cantrips (maybe more) to find your outs. Or you Duress/Therapy away their first and they need a couple of turns to land their second. Just saying Chalice @ 1 doesn't equal GG for them.

And why isn't 2x LED + plus Infernal or 1x LED and 1X CR plus Infernal good enough for the win?

First I feel were talking AN lists vs. Lists without AN here which sure makes a difference. All I was trying to Highlight was that your chances to win against a turn 1 Chalice @ 1 is below 20% with ANT vs MUD as the Chalice won't be your only problem for long. I resist to discuss cases in which your MUD opponent starts the game without any mentionable plays during the first 2-3 turns aka no Sol lands, no other acceleration as that was not the question asked.

In essence, the Chance to dig you out from the Turn 1 Chalice is imo too slim to consider "drawing the nuts naturally" as a valid gameplan here.

[davelin]

First I feel were talking AN lists vs. Lists without AN here which sure makes a difference. All I was trying to Highlight was that your chances to win against a turn 1 Chalice @ 1 is below 20% with ANT vs MUD as the Chalice won't be your only problem for long. I resist to discuss cases in which your MUD opponent starts the game without any mentionable plays during the first 2-3 turns aka no Sol lands, no other acceleration as that was not the question asked.

In essence, the Chance to dig you out from the Turn 1 Chalice is imo too slim to consider "drawing the nuts naturally" as a valid gameplan here.

The original question didn't stipulate when the Chalice @ 1 landed. I agree if we assume it lands turn one we are in a very bad shape, but I would stipulate that is probably still the case with Decays since ANT typically plays with 2-3 and Chalice is shutting off our ability to dig for them.