Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 33 of 33

Thread: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

  1. #21
    Member

    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Location

    Leicester, UK
    Posts

    609

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    To call Death and Taxes control is just being lazy. Death and Taxes is implementing Prison strategy. To be more precise, it's actually Aggro-control without Counters.
    Prison strategy is a control strategy. There was a big debate on MTGS when they reoganised to have A/C/C split and D&T was put in Aggro; eventually it was moved to Control. Sure Maverick is a more aggressive step-child of D&T but if you are going to push it to one side of the line or the other they might as well go together.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Mountain + Lightning Bolt, oldest combo in Magic, still going strong.
    Channel Fireball is the oldest combo; just playing the casting cost of a spell is not a combo.

    Quote Originally Posted by bjholmes3 View Post
    I would argue, as the black tutors are in Vintage. It makes the format work. As for complaints about blue having the "best aggro cards", when was the last time you lost to a mono-U aggro deck?
    Last week actually. I was playing Truename Patriot. He wasted my Tundra after I cast Stoneforge and then countered what I cast while beating me down with Delver and Ninja's. I crushed him in the rematch this week with some basics in my deck.
    My Legacy Decks of choice: Pox, Miracles, D&T or Lands.
    Online Trading Reference Checker

  2. #22
    Force of Will is my bitch
    Finn's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2004
    Location

    South Florida
    Posts

    2,979

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Blue needs a threshold of blue spells to power FoW too. So these decks would be forced to decide which of these guys to keep around, because at some point you don't have enough blue cards to keep both. Printing yet another top notch creature for blue bumps the power of the color, true. But it also disguises that power by allowing for more ways to use the card. With powerful blue cards relegated to noncreature counters and search, all the blue decks looked the same. Brainstorm is the poster child for this phenomenon. If you are in blue, you are playing Brainstorm because the alternative card for that slot is never as good. (Heh, Merfolk). That is why so many blue-based decks have always been possible...but not real aggro...until now. Comparisons of this card (or Delver) to Tarmo are flawed for this reason. Blue decks were still forced into the role of aggro-control with Tarmo. They no longer are. When the blue STP or Bolt replacement sees print, I quit.
    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
    "Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
    "Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
    "Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."

  3. #23

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by lyracian View Post
    Prison strategy is a control strategy. There was a big debate on MTGS when they reoganised to have A/C/C split and D&T was put in Aggro; eventually it was moved to Control. Sure Maverick is a more aggressive step-child of D&T but if you are going to push it to one side of the line or the other they might as well go together.
    I don't see the purpose of referring to what MTGS classify D&T as.

    Prison strategy is just Prison strategy. To be called a Control strategy, the deck doing the control role has to be able to selectively filter threats by trading cards. Counters, in this case, create that filtering effect. That selectivity is very distinct, not to be confused with non-discriminant prison, such as Tangle wire + Smokestack.

    Hence, I would still call D&T aggro-control, since it is never able to establish that filter effect, doing only half the job of control by creating that prison effect.

  4. #24
    Hamburglar Hlelpler
    TsumiBand's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2005
    Location

    Nebraska
    Posts

    2,774

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Blue needs a threshold of blue spells to power FoW too. So these decks would be forced to decide which of these guys to keep around, because at some point you don't have enough blue cards to keep both. Printing yet another top notch creature for blue bumps the power of the color, true. But it also disguises that power by allowing for more ways to use the card. With powerful blue cards relegated to noncreature counters and search, all the blue decks looked the same. Brainstorm is the poster child for this phenomenon. If you are in blue, you are playing Brainstorm because the alternative card for that slot is never as good. (Heh, Merfolk). That is why so many blue-based decks have always been possible...but not real aggro...until now. Comparisons of this card (or Delver) to Tarmo are flawed for this reason. Blue decks were still forced into the role of aggro-control with Tarmo. They no longer are. When the blue STP or Bolt replacement sees print, I quit.
    And why is a Blue aggro deck a healthy thing?

    I want my Green control deck then, and mono-colorless counter-control deck. Mono-White combo would be sweet too. Everyone get everything, forever
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    Creature type - 'Fuck you mooooooom'
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    EDIT: Tsumi, you are silly.

  5. #25
    Say no to creatures.

    Join Date

    May 2013
    Posts

    387

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    I remember playing a green control deck with Plow Unders and Tangle Wires though.. However this is not to say that blue aggro is a healthy thing.
    Legacy: Rituals
    Vintage: Drains

  6. #26
    Site Contributor
    apple713's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2012
    Location

    Manhattan, NY
    Posts

    2,086

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    And why is a Blue aggro deck a healthy thing?

    I want my Green control deck then, and mono-colorless counter-control deck. Mono-White combo would be sweet too. Everyone get everything, forever
    eventually it'll happen...

    however there are a few options in place already...

    MUD Stax is pretty close to a counter control deck.

    white combo would be second sunrise - enduring ideal might be able to be revisited in legacy.

    I made a green control deck... it doesn't work as well as id like but its ok. Plow under, follow earth, ice storm, beast within, drop of honey...
    Play 4 Card Blind!

    Currently Playing
    Legacy: Dark Depths
    EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid

    Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi

    why cards are so expensive...hoarders

  7. #27
    Force of Will is my bitch
    Finn's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2004
    Location

    South Florida
    Posts

    2,979

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by TsunamiBand
    And why is a Blue aggro deck a healthy thing?
    I don't think it is.
    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
    "Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
    "Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
    "Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."

  8. #28
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2010
    Location

    Warsaw, Poland
    Posts

    548

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Blue aggro deck is health but, Blue aggro deck which is better then other aggro decks is very very bad since the diversity of aggro decks will decrease to one deck.

  9. #29
    Member

    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Location

    Leicester, UK
    Posts

    609

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    I don't see the purpose of referring to what MTGS classify D&T as.

    Prison strategy is just Prison strategy. To be called a Control strategy, the deck doing the control role has to be able to selectively filter threats by trading cards. Counters, in this case, create that filtering effect. That selectivity is very distinct, not to be confused with non-discriminant prison, such as Tangle wire + Smokestack.

    Hence, I would still call D&T aggro-control, since it is never able to establish that filter effect, doing only half the job of control by creating that prison effect.
    With only three classification available in the analysis (Aggro, Control, Combo) you are the one complaining that D&T should not be classified as Control. I referenced MTGS to show that others have been through this argument and what the end result was. You have your opinion and I have mine. I doubt a Prison deck can ever be Aggro, it might manage to be a Combo deck but as far as I am concerned, when you only have the three basic classificaiton available Prison decks are going to be Control.
    My Legacy Decks of choice: Pox, Miracles, D&T or Lands.
    Online Trading Reference Checker

  10. #30
    itsJulian.com - Legacy Videos
    Julian23's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Location

    Munich / Germany
    Posts

    3,141

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Most white stompy decks are Aggro/Prison, as in Angel Stompy. If you want to call Blood Moon a prison card, so is Dragon Stompy.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  11. #31

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Only on the Source do you see the majority of the comments focused on semantics instead of discussing the actual meat of the article...

  12. #32
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    May 2013
    Location

    Atlanta
    Posts

    74

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by akatsuki View Post
    Only on the Source do you see the majority of the comments focused on semantics instead of discussing the actual meat of the article...
    That's probably the highest compliment most of the people on here can give to an article. If they can only complain about the minutiae it means the rest of the article must have been good.
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    But winning out of nowhere takes away the fun of grinding out your opponents with Manlands. Nothing is more satisfying than a game of Magic where you throw away half the fun, and claim the other half for yourself and leave your opponent with zero fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by DragoFireheart View Post
    Haven't you heard? The default color for cards being designed is blue. They have to remember to change the color when finishing the card.

  13. #33

    Re: [Article] December 2013 Legacy Metagame Analysis

    Haha, thanks

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)