Against BUG I side out all of my Forces, I'd rather just have a ton of value creatures after board. In my experience they haven't been able to cast any one spell that stops my, so I feel like you don't need a card like Force of Will against them. In fact, against almost every non - combo deck I end up siding out Force. That's how I approach those kind of matchups.
As for the Wall of Blossoms, it's definitely one of the weakest cards in the deck. The original list my friend had played 2 copies, which I ended up shaving to 1. I still like to have the 1 copy, since if I assemble Tidespout and Griffin when I'm chaining, any Shardless can then be recast over and over until I find the wall, then draw my deck until I find Emrakul, and then take a whole lot of extra turns. 99% of the time that kind of game state is overkill, but I'm glad I still have a way to win any game on the spot regardless of the board state. I haven't come up against it in a game yet, but I could easily see myself in a spot where my opponent has True-Name in play while I'm at 3 or less life, so either I win right now or I die on their turn. Without the wall in your deck, that's really difficult to do.
You can't pull out the RUG from under me, CUZ I AM THE RUG!
Why not Baleful Strix? Trades with anything, blocks Delver, pitches to force?Originally Posted by chinEsE girl
That's actually sounds really good. I've seen lists that play multiple copies, but those lists were also playing a heavier black mana base, and I've been happy with the current mana I have. I'll replace the wall with strix and see how it works
You can't pull out the RUG from under me, CUZ I AM THE RUG!
There's always Coiling Oracle if mana is your concern, but Strix seems better.
It's a trade off. Wall of Blossoms let's you curve into it via Food Chain with a 1-drop where Strix (and Coiling Oracle - although I think that is too poor once resolved) is clunkier to resolve due to being dual coloured. However, Strix is just a much better card than Wall. Trades with Delver and Goyf, pitches to Force, can even get in with flying and a few exalted triggers every now and again.
It's worth the heavier dedication to black. I still manage to run four basics (2 islands, 1 swamp, 1 forest).
So I went to the Bazaar of Moxen in Annecy for the first time. I was playing ANT in the main event but got to play my favorite combo midrange deck in two trials
One trial was a 32-man single elimination, 5-round tournament that I 4-1'd for a bye to the main event and bunch of boosters. The other was the last big Legacy trial on Sunday for next year's BoM, 6-rounds swiss with some FBB duals and byes for prizes. I 5-1'd* that one, but was actually 5-0 before the last round but my opponent insisted on playing.
*Here’s a link to the decklists on mtgpulse: http://mtgpulse.com/event/16700#235467 Be aware that I didn’t win the tournament. Quentin did. They made a mistake.
I won't go over the 32-man trial in detail but I'll briefly mention that I played against:
Sneak and Show: 2-0
Death and Taxes: 2-0
Miracles: 2-0
MUD: 2-0
Death and Taxes: 1-2
For the trial on Sunday I brought the same list which is:
4x Misthollow Griffin
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
3x Manipulate Fate
1x Misdirection
1x Aethersnipe
4x Food Chain
3x Fierce Empath
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Sylvan Library
3x Deathrite Shaman
3x Baleful Strix
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Griselbrand
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Lim-Dûl's Vault
2x Underground Sea
3x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
2x Verdant Catacombs
Now, a caveat at first: this report is drawn from memory and some limited notes.
So, on to the tournament. We were playing 6 rounds of swiss, with no top 8. I believe we were 80 players. There were 2 byes and an FBB Underground Sea for a 6-0 finish. An FBB blue dual and 1 bye for a 5-0-1 finish. And a WB Underground Sea and a bye for a 5-1 finish.
Round one: vs Miracles (2-0)
So I sit down in front of Martin from Argentina. He's a really nice guy who had made the journey from Argentina all the way to France to play in the Bazaar. In game one he wins the dice roll and leads on Volcanic Island -> Sensei's Divining Top. Having just crushed Miracles in the first trial, and just knowing how our deck is pretty well set up to fight them I felt quite relaxed. In game one I lead out with a Manipulate Fate on turn two having a griffin in hand as well as a Food Chain and a Force. Predictably he decides to pierce it. I let that happen and drop a Food Chain on the next turn. He has the force, but I force back. I top deck another Manipulate Fate on the subsequent turn and it resolves. He never finds a way to answer four griffins with a Food Chain out. In game two we fight over one of my combo pieces early on but I have redundancy. He lands a Counterbalance but I have Abrupt Decay. He eventually resolves a Blood Moon but I have a fetchland in play and a basic in hand and am able to get by regardless of the moon. Eventually I get to resolve a Food Chain and a Manipulate in running turns and I have Emrakul in hand. What I like about this matchup is that we have so much time.
Round two: vs UR Delver (2-0)
I'm playing against Felix from Germany. Felix wins the dice roll and we both keep sevens. He's leads on tarn -> volcanic -> Ponder, shuffles, draws and passes the turn. I'm holding a Food Chain, three lands, griffin, force and noble hierarch. My memories from this game are a bit sketchy, but I remember having three Food Chains in the first five turns of the game. Had one in my opener and drew the other two on my second and fourth turn. I run two of them into Dazes which keep Felix honest on one land for several turns. I also draw a Manipulate Fate which he also counters. I decide not to fight over it as I already have a Griffin. I eventually resolve my third Food Chain and a Griffin the next turn. I eventually win through Emrakul while Felix has domed me 3 times with two bolts and a Chain Lightning as his only plays.
I can’t remember game two except that I won through Emrakul again.
Round three: vs Shardless BUG (2-1)
Round three is against Daniel from Spain. I remember seeing his picture holding a playset of fetches on the BoM website earlier during the weekend and think to myself that he’s probably not a half bad player. In game one we go back and forth and I manage to resolve four deathrite shamans during the game (several of which get decayed) which turns out to be pivotal. I eventually combo off with Emrakul. In game two he gets me after a longer grind fest. For game three he mulligans once and I get to combo off without the griffins, making my favorite play of Fierce Empath -> Aethersnipe -> Griselbrand -> Griffin and Emrakul
Round four: vs Dredge (2-0)
The most ridiculously intense round of magic I had all weekend. I’m playing against Robin, a really nice guy from France. He’s also quite skilled and legacy knowledgeable, a fact I learn when he blind names Food Chain with his therapy after furrowing his brow when I cast a Noble Hierarch with a Tropical Island and a Underground Sea in play. We eventually get to a board state where he has eight 2/2 tokens as well as a 9/9 Golgari Grave Troll. I’m at 17 but have no real pressure. I think I have one griffin in play. He has just therapied and knows I’m holding a Baleful Strix and a Brainstorm. My other card (which he doesn’t know) is Food Chain. I respond with the Brainstorm and draw: Brainstorm, jank, jank. I put back Food Chain with Strix on top. He names Strix. Phew. He doesn’t have another therapy so has to just pass the turn. I draw my strix, play it and draw the Food Chain. I am able to produce four or five mana from here. I play Brainstorm and see three fresh cards: jank, 2x Fierce Empath. GG. I win.
Game two is where it gets heavy. He mulls to six, and I mull to five. My hand of five is pretty solid: Fetchland, Brainstorm, Grafdigger’s Cage, Deathrite Shaman, Food Chain. A few turns later it seems less solid after he has Nature’s Claimed my Cage. I play my shaman and he plays a putrid imp. He then dredges a few times in the following two turns off Stinkweed Imps which he gets doubles of. My shaman exiles an Ichorid and so we dance. I draw my singleton Surgical Extraction and in a pivotal turn I exile his Golgari Grave Troll that is in his grave with my shaman when he tries to go to his draw step. In response he discards the stinkweed imp to his putrid imp. That resolves and I then Surgical Extract it. This buys me some time if not a lot. He has a bridge in his yard and has two 2/2 tokens now. For what seems like forever but is probably more like four or five turns I hover between one and three life. I get a griffin down and chump his one zombie but he gets in with the other and I eat a creature and get up to three before he drops me to one. He gets another zombie off his bridge. I can’t draw anything relevant to save my life. My hand is triple force and Emrakul. I have two more griffins exiled and four lands, but one of them is a fetch which I can’t really use. I draw for the turn… force #4!!! Can’t believe it. At this point we are at like time, except we’ve had an extension due to a deck check. Fortunately for me he doesn’t have access to any dredgers so he can’t really advance his game plan. Finally I draw Food Chain. My heart is racing as I drop it. He knows Emrakul is in my hand from an earlier therapy and he extends his hand!
Okay, 4-0 now.
Round five: vs BURG Control (2-1).
In round five I play Bertrand. I’ve seen he’s playing some funky control deck with Jaces and Badlands when being seated next to him during earlier rounds. I don’t remember that much from how these games play out but in game one he basically watches me go off over two turns with knowledge of my hand. I don’t think he could have done anything about it, but he didn’t seem to fully realize what was happening until the griffins went flying to and fro existence. Game two I lose to Liliana and Jace. I do see a Pithing Needle which names Food Chain… shh, don’t say anything. Game three is tight but I squeeze it out with Emrakul.
Round six: vs BUG Delver (1-2).
Playing against Quentin and he’s on BUG delver. A matchup I’m not particularly well geared for. No Baloths in the sideboard and I knew it was going to be a tough game. There’s a pretty big difference in prize payout between a 6-0 and a 5-1 finish where 5-0-1 is closer to 6-0 than 5-1 so I ask if he wants to split. After long deliberation he says he does not as he’s confident that he’s the favorite. Sadly he isn’t wrong and after a grindy game one I’m down 0-1. I take game two but he basically throws it away. I have Fierce Empath and a Baleful Strix in play and he has like a goyfs and a deathrite and has just resolved Liliana, I’m at 18 life. He has two open mana sources. I have four open mana. I cast Food Chain. He thinks for a while and then responds by tapping a land and casting Disfigure on the Empath. Food Chain resolves. I evoke in Aethersnipe and bounce his Liliana, I then sack the Aethersnipe for green and cast another empathy and get griselbrand. I activate and draw the win. My friend, who was sitting next to Quentin, would tell me after the round that Quentin was holding an Abrupt Decay which he could have cast on Food Chain if he hadn’t disfigured my empath.
For game three he seems a bit flustered. But it’s a grindy game and in the end I just succumb to goyfs and deathrites.
So, all in all I'm extremely pleased with how the deck performed. I'm also getting somewhat painfully aware that the deck is no longer a secret and people are learning how to play against it.
Great to see this deck is positioning well in tournaments. AND there are three different versions! "Bounce without fierce empaths", "Fierce-snipe-griselbrand" and "natural food chain with S&T sidetech" that I'm also using. All these versions have different pros and cons so it is quite hard to hate before you know what version it is.
Went to a small event today (19 players with winner receiving UG Sea and Tundra for 2nd place) with following list:
Main
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Underground Sea
2x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
3x Island
2x Forest
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Baleful Strix
4x Shardless Agent
4x Food Chain
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Fierce Empath
1x Sylvan Library
4x Force of Will
4x Misthollow Griffin
4x Brainstorm
3x Manipulate Fate
1x Misdirection
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Tidespout Tyrant
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB
3x Thoughtseize
2x Golgari Charm
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Submerge
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Pithing Needle
1x Misdirection
1x Engineered Explosives
Played against following decks:
Death & Taxes 1-2
*Bye*
BUG Delver 2-1
BUG Delver 2-0
Belcher ID (played 2 games for fun and won both of them)
Top 8:
Death & Taxes 1-2
My build wasn't tested at all and hadn't really played with the deck before the tournament so everything went fairly well considering that. The D&T match up was tougher than I thought, although I didn't draw any of my Golgari Charms during any of the the games. The mana denial along with high pressure and hatebears (Thalia, Revoker, Canonist, Spirit) is surprisingly good, even though we are mostly comboing with creatures. They are also fairly well equipped to fight the fair game because of equipment, mother of runes and their usual tricks.
BUG delver was another story though. Most of the time I could just stall with Strix and pals until I could find the combo or outvalue them with Griffins and Agents. Also the usual Misdirection exiling griffin on their Hymn never gets old. Lost one game against double delver nut start.
Manabase was bit wierd with me not having the Deltas (had to play the Tarns) so couldn't really play the basic swamp. With Strixes in the deck and quite heavy emphasis on black sideboard cards I think that swamp would be really good addition in the deck. I found that 3 pieces of combo win cons (Empath, Tyrant, Emrakul) were enough. Venser wasn't doing much for me since I was usually tapping out almost every turn so usually there weren't any time to cast him.
I'm definitely going to try and refine the deck further in my local meta.
So, after losing repeatedly to ANT (which has always been one of this deck's worst matchups) I've decided to splash white via a singleton Savannah and play some Meddling Mages in the sideboard. I've been debating with myself whether or not to just give up the matchup and consign to being the underdog, but there's too much storm in my meta for such an approach to make sense.
My sideboard cards against storm now consist of:
2x Meddling Mage
2x Flusterstorm
3x Thoughtseize
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Grafdigger's Cage
Played Losset's list at our local weekly Legacy tournament. Four rounds, didn't even lose a game. Beat UWR Delver, UW Stoneforge, Nic-Fit, and Miracles.
There are times where I wonder if this deck even needs the Foodchains/Combo-pieces. Exiling three Griffins and then beating down has been value-town every time.
Can you give me a link to the list?
Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.
Ignorance is strength
Hi everybody!
I recently picked up the deck and I am having a blast with it! Itried the Shardless and the Fierce version and I am leaning toward the 2nd so far. Here is the list I used to win a local tourney last week-end:
2 Island
2 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
1 Karakas
4 Food Chain
1 Sylvan Library
4 Brainstorm
4 Force Of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Misthollow Griffin
3 Baleful Strix
3 Fierce Empath
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Birds Of Paradise
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Tidesporut Tyrant
1 Emrakul, The Aeons torn
3 Flusterstorm
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Golgari Charm
1 Misdirection
1 Krosan Grip
Birds of Paradise was awesome all day and I never wish I had a Noble Hierarch in its place. Being able to produce black consistently through Wasteland has been crucial during the day.
I feel that Tyrant should be Aethersnipe...
Concerning my SB, Deluge has been an all star all day, the card is amazing. It would be hard for me to go back to a UG version for this card alone!
I was considering adding a Lim-Dul's Vault maybe in place of an Empath. What are your thoughts on this card?
Cheers!
I'm glad to see everyone's been having so much success with this deck lately. And with a bunch of slightly different variations too! Makes me excited to see what will happen with the deck as we get through the summer months.
While I've seen a lot of people argue for fierce empath lately, I'm still sticking with good old shardless agent. It's been pretty spectacular so far for me, and as I've stated before I hate playing cards like empath with as pure bricks when you don't have a food chain in play. So this is where I'm at currently;
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Coiling Oracle
4 Shardless Agent
2 Vendillion Clique
4 Misthollow Griffin
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn
4 Brainstorm
1 Sylvan Library
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Food Chain
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Karakas
4 Meddling Mage
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Misdirection
I've made just a few changes to my maindeck, mostly the oracle instead of wall. I know some people love strix, but i love turn 1 basic forest -> mana dork, so I'd rather have the oracle. The sideboard has the mages I talked about in my report, as well as some abrupt decays since I'm tired of losing to stupid delvers. I don't know if the Jitte is good or not, but I want to at least try it out. It's mostly there as a "fuck you" to elves, but it's also good against any other random creature decks. If the Jitte idea doesn't pan out it will just morph into the 3rd copy of decay.
If anyone else has new idea's for cards people haven't mentioned in the thread yet, I'd love to hear them.
You can't pull out the RUG from under me, CUZ I AM THE RUG!
Could you tell us your sb tech with main pairings? Thanks
Enviado desde mi iPhone con Tapatalk
Hi All. Has anyone considered a red splash for imperial recruiter in this deck? Without food chain it still picks up utility creatures for value (although one would want to tweak the balance of the most useful 2 power creatures as one-ofs, for example, venser, eternal witness, muldrifter etc). With a food chain it is a turbo tutor - finding the creature and providing 4 mana to cast it. And with a fierce empath in the deck it gives the option of:
recruiter for recruiter & sac (4 mana),
repeat for the next 2 recruiters (up to 6 mana),
final recruiter for empath and sac (7 mana),
empath for 8 drop (griselbrand or tyrant) and sac (8 mana)
cast 8 drop and feel smug.
So recruiter and food chain is a two card combo costing 3 + 3 mana?
I appreciate, however, that there may be card availability limitations, but wondered if anyone has considered / tried anything like this?
Went 3-0 with Eric's new list at my local weekly last night playing against dead-guy, tezzeret and lands. Not the best representation of the meta but the deck performed excellently. I love the jitte, it won me a game hands down against dead guy and was great in testing against d&t. Against dead guy I really wanted to have both shardless and EE in the deck but I wasn't sure if it was worth it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jitte is quite nice in some MUs. I have tried a beatdown sidetech with discard, tarmogoyfs, abrupt decays and 2 jittes + something in place of show and tell sidetech. It was ok, but I like show and tell more, at the moment at least :D Maybe it is better with shardless agent MD (I have ordered those so I might test them in place of fierce empath and with beatdown sb). There are just so many options to play with. Maybe shardless food chain with natural order MD and more beatdown sb..
EDIT:
I think adding red is not going to make this deck better. If you have food chain out you can fierce empath to 8cmc monster if you have 3+3 mana. So red just saves you 3 mana and in this case a turn, but you lose slots for 4 recruiter. But if you want to try with red I would also test bloodbraid elf. Maybe some 1-off utility guys, cascade-guys and food chain combo in place of some protection? Protection could be in the sb.. In other words: test with red and tell us the results :D
Imperial Recruiter is really good as a food chain card and was discussed in the old thread most lists went RUG and played 4 of Phantasmal Image. It allowed you to chain IR->PI copy IR get another IR then repeat. The last one got Fierce Empath into Emrakul for the win.
Thoughts, comments and questions are always welcome.
Admittedly I have never tried playing with Recruiters. While the card in itself has a lot of synergy with Food Chain it just seems to me that red as a colour is quite dissynergistic with what the deck is trying to do. Replacing black with red and playing RUG Food Chain seems like it would turn the deck into a much more fragile combo deck compared to what BUG offers and worsen our matchup against Death and Taxes, and basically anything with Canonist and/or revokers significantly. And if we decide to splash and play BURG Food Chain then I think our mana base is going to be too greedy. I can just imagine fanning open my starting hand and seeing Island, Volcanic Island, Deathrite Shaman and just shedding a tear.
Long story short: I think Imperial Recruiters will give the deck more, but not quicker paths to a combo victory. The opportunity cost for this is that it makes the midrange elements of the deck significantly worse by cluttering up the deck with more cards that are situationally much weaker than Baleful Strix, Deathrite Shamans and Abrupt Decay - which I imagine would be cards that - at least to an extent - would be hard to support once we decide to run red.
But, like I said, I haven't tested it out for myself and probably won't get to as I can't be bothered to get a hold of those recruiters. If someone makes a strong enough case I'll borrow them and try it out though
Would also love to hear some actual testing experience with them as, like I said, they seem synergistic in a vacuum but I'm skeptical on how well the Food Chain deck they're in is actually going to perform.
Last edited by nevilshute; 05-23-2014 at 05:37 AM.
@chinEsE girl/others:
In the UG(b) list, what are your opinions about the Venser and the 2drop slot(oracle,wall,..) I personally feel like they dont contribute that much. The Venser is just a situational one off but you have 2 Tidespout Tyrant's alrdy for bouncing.
I feel like maybe we can replace them for something like 2 Jace TMS.. It seems much better and it combo's really well with the deck too. U alrdy play alot of basics to support it, together with 7 mana guys and there is also the synergy with Shardless Agent. It can also bounce a Revoker,E canonist ,.. when needed. For the rest I really like the list, it has great potential. I'm still playing A. Visions in the sideboard as I dont feel the need to play Meddling Mages. I think we can beat combo just by playing like 3 flusterstorm(maybe a 4th one?) and 3th Vendilion Clique etc sideboard. The visions are so insane against almost all decks where u would normally board out your FoW's. Greetings-
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