[Deck] Food Chain Combo

[nevilshute]

Heya grokh.

Sure, I wasn't taking having Tidespout Tyrant in the deck into consideration. If you are playing with Tyrant then yes, it is effectively the same.

You make some good points in your analysis. I will need to try and play with the Hydra myself before I can pass judgment

[kingtk3]

And don't forget that to optimize the use of empath you need to play other "bad" cards like aethersnipe or Griselbrand (yes, as a former reanimator player it hurts my eyes to label Griselbrand as bad, but it is in this deck): we are not the fastest combo out there but we are surely the most robust, and playing bad cards makes us slower and less robust.

@grokh: surely our little talks have helped, now I want to try hydra over soul too ;)

[DireLemming]

I don't see the point in Emrakul, once you go infinite (which is more or less the only feasible way of getting it into play), you can't lose regardless: you can bounce all their permanents with Tyrant and use Clique to set their hand to be all lands. And if you play Jace (for instance instead of Emrakul), you can also set their next draw to be a land.

[resmaster]

I don't see the point in Emrakul, once you go infinite (which is more or less the only feasible way of getting it into play), you can't lose regardless: you can bounce all their permanents with Tyrant and use Clique to set their hand to be all lands. And if you play Jace (for instance instead of Emrakul), you can also set their next draw to be a land.

Or simply win the game with Purphoros, maybe?

[DireLemming]

Why? Aren't you just substituting one dead card for another?

[Seven_six]

Look at the finishers and let's see what they do:
Emrakul: can't do anything unless food chain and sufficient creatures or infinite.
Tidespout: can be pitched to FoW In a pinch. Hardly castable without food chain.
Purphros: easy to cast. Can pump weenies in a pinch. Does 2 damage each time a creature is played. Not useful with food chain unless infinite (con)

[resmaster]

I do not think we will be able to find a win condition that is also a useful card during the whole game.

For Emrakul or Tidespout Tyrant to be viable, we gotta have griffin on. And, if we do have the griffin, then purphoros is a "hard-to-remove" kill condition. And none of the three cards are non-dead cards midgame.

If one thinks this deck has slot issues and cannot waste space with win conditions that will not contribute in the middle of the game, maybe it's time to think about living wish once again.

[Seven_six]

I think purphoros does help the mid game beat down plan as each new body does damage and he can pump to get a little more damage through.

[jedi_gof]

I find it hard to see why purphoros is worth the splash to be honest. Had he been in other colors maybe he would be worth considering, but not if it requires a splash. He does basicly nothing sans foodchain.

[resmaster]

I find it hard to see why purphoros is worth the splash to be honest. Had he been in other colors maybe he would be worth considering, but not if it requires a splash. He does basicly nothing sans foodchain.

I do believe that the best version for this deck is BUG. I just mentioned Purphoros because I don´t think we have a better kill than Emrakul in these colors.

[DireLemming]

My point was we don't even need Emrakul. Hydras of arbitrary size with a hand full of counterspells against an empty board and a grip of lands is more than sufficient.

[kingtk3]

My point was we don't even need Emrakul. Hydras of arbitrary size with a hand full of counterspells against an empty board and a grip of lands is more than sufficient.

This.

Having in the deck tyrant plus hydra/soul of the harvest makes emrakul a win more, dead outside infinite mana card. I would like to lower the number of these cards as much as possible to make room for more castable spells.

[lincolnthree]

If you want an "instant kill" that is searchable with Empath, go for `Vela the Night Clad`, she costs 4UB, is actually cast-able in a reasonably long game, pitches to Force of Will, and provides intimidate for all creatures you control to break through a stand-off situation. Additionally, she provides life-loss rather than damage, so it cannot be prevented or redirected.

[movingtonewao]

If you want an "instant kill" that is searchable with Empath, go for `Vela the Night Clad`, she costs 4UB, is actually cast-able in a reasonably long game, pitches to Force of Will, and provides intimidate for all creatures you control to break through a stand-off situation. Additionally, she provides life-loss rather than damage, so it cannot be prevented or redirected.

we've talked about this. the problem is that in a long game she's removal bait, and could end up in a reverse blowout

[movingtonewao]

I received a FB message from Jonathan today. He ran the following list at GPNJ and will be writing a report for SCG to be posted in the next few days... keep your eyes open for it.

//Main Deck:
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Genesis Hydra
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Food Chain
4 Brainstorm
3 Manipulate Fate
2 Dig through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest

//Sideboard:
3 Duress
2 Disfigure
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Karakas

He mentioned a few things about the sideboard that he would do differently but I'm guessing he'll cover that in his report.

Enjoy!

has the article been posted? I wasn't able to locate it in SCG articles.

[NathanS2k]

Seems like this deck had some camera time again on SCG. Think it was the same list he was playing?

[Mapson]

Seems like this deck had some camera time again on SCG. Think it was the same list he was playing?

He had a jitte out in game two so he had to have made some changes...likely just to the sideboard though.

[ProBlue]

has the article been posted? I wasn't able to locate it in SCG articles.

He had a jitte out in game two so he had to have made some changes...likely just to the sideboard though.

I haven't seen it either. I messaged him briefly on FB after his GPNJ run and he sent me the list that was posted along with some changes he was likely to make to the Sideboard. I wasn't going to share them at the time because I was expecting them to be covered in the article he was going to write for SCG. Since the article never went up, I'll share what he said to me.

"The maindeck was spot on where I wanted it. The sideboard could use a little more tweaking I believe. What I know I'm going to do is change the Jace, the Mind Sculptor and the Toxic Deluge to two [cards]Umezawa's Jitte[/card]. I think it does all the same thing as the Deluge and the Jace was for the Countertop matchup. I played it twice on the weekend and the matchup was very easy with just Duress and Venser, Shaper Savant. I don't think it necessary. Two Umezawa's Jitte will dramatically improve the UR Delver match up. The other card I'm debating the necessity of is Karakas. Sneak and Show is very much on the decline and I'm wondering if it would just be better as a catchall like Golgari Charm." - Jonathon Job

Based on these notes, I would expect his Sideboard to look like this:

3 Duress
2 Disfigure
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm

[metamet]

Oh hey guys. Glad to see my baby is still alive. <3

Keep up the good work.

[jedi_gof]

I will be running Jobs latest list with very few adjustments tomorrow.

I am trying sans Spaghetti monter in the deck, so far its not been missed.
Running an additional misdirection main in his spot as there are quite a lot Decays in my meta.

SB is very similar, but i dont have german leylines so will be running some alternative, also tinkering with some lifegain in the jitte slots like baloths or the like, which dubbleduties against black decks.

Will be posting a small report sometime before sunday.
Still on the fence regarding the hydra, either its awesome, or it is a serious miss. Contemplating agents are better in a non emmy list, but are not sure.