[Deck] Food Chain Combo

[Kaono]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/...sts-2018-05-12

Decklist here -- 2 trinket mage is something I've wanted to try but never had the guts.

[grokh]

Hi,

I played Food chain a couple years ago, when Leovold/Ballista/Scourge weren't released yet.

I played Jund recently, and i'm selling Jund for going back to Food chain

I found the following list i'm copying :
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19100&d=320535&f=LE

What do you think about this list ?

Would i make some changes or keep it as is ?

Thanks

Grokh

[JackaBo]

Hi,

I played Food chain a couple years ago, when Leovold/Ballista/Scourge weren't released yet.

I played Jund recently, and i'm selling Jund for going back to Food chain

I found the following list i'm copying :
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19100&d=320535&f=LE

What do you think about this list ?

Would i make some changes or keep it as is ?

Thanks

Grokh

3/3 ballista/mages is rather heavy on the finnisher side. Seems he cut ponders for the extra finnishers.
I think i would rather play ponders. If you gonna play that many mages you should make room for reliq of progenitus.

[grokh]

3/3 ballista/mages is rather heavy on the finnisher side. Seems he cut ponders for the extra finnishers.
I think i would rather play ponders. If you gonna play that many mages you should make room for reliq of progenitus.

Something more like this ?
http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/showdeck?ref=584713

I cut the 3rd ballista and the Engineered explosives MD for a 2nd Ponder and a Relic of Progenitus.

[dte]

Isn't EE the main reason to run mage over ballista? If you do not run it, then no point in not just going 0 mages / 4 ballistas, as both are equal in combo mode and ballista is the better card outside of combo, if you cannot fetch EE.

[grokh]

Isn't EE the main reason to run mage over ballista? If you do not run it, then no point in not just going 0 mages / 4 ballistas, as both are equal in combo mode and ballista is the better card outside of combo, if you cannot fetch EE.

OK for keeping EE in the MD, but where do i put the Relic of Progenitus in this case ?

[grokh]

3/3 ballista/mages is rather heavy on the finnisher side. Seems he cut ponders for the extra finnishers.
I think i would rather play ponders. If you gonna play that many mages you should make room for reliq of progenitus.

Why do you want to make room for relic of progenitus MD ?

[Kaono]

Why do you want to make room for relic of progenitus MD ?

Relic is great in this meta. Forces opp. to eat their own GY with DRS, which you are also attacking with your relic making Angler harder to cast. Obviously great vs Lands. Helps your combo MU preboard. And is a 5th DRS to rebuy your Griffins from GY to make the deck great at grinding.

[grokh]

I saw some lists running Hostage taker in SB.

I suppose the card is here against Sneak show but is there other MUs where you sb in this card ?

Thanks

[Kaono]

I saw some lists running Hostage taker in SB.

I suppose the card is here against Sneak show but is there other MUs where you sb in this card ?

Thanks

It can come in in any matchup that you want to deal with artifacts/creatures, or any matchup that's grindy and rewards a slow 3-for-1.

I've brought it in vs Lands, D&T, Stoneblade, Eldrazi, Czech Pile, Dragon Stompy, Steel Stompy, MUD, 12-Post, the mirror, and probably a few more.

[grokh]

Hi,

I made a file with sideboard tables for my list :
http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/...php?ref=584713

Here is the file :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=760684324

If somebody could look at it and correct the tables, it'd be nice to me.

Thanks

[Kaono]

Elves: Strix is useless here -- keep DRS take out Strix

Sneak: Strix is useless -- keep Ballista/Ponder/Fate take out Strix

In general Strix is really bad vs all combo decks except Reanimator

Jund: Leovold is good vs them, keep it in. Altar of the Brood can come out of maindeck since you don't want to mill their PFires. Push should come in to deal with Bob/DRS/Goyf. Hostage Taker could maybe come in.

Shardless: Hostage Taker should def. be coming in. It's a super grindy card and 3-for-1s your opps. Push seems less necessary since there's not as many "must kill" creatures as Jund. Shardless usually kills you with Strixes and Agents.

BUG Delver: Don't sideboard out FoW vs Delver. You happily trade resources for more time. Don't sideboard out Fate. You win by grinding them out. Take out Altar of the Brood (fuels their goyfs/stalkers) and slow stuff like Ponder.

Burn: Never take out FoW. Altar of the Brood can easily come out (sensing a pattern here, card is bad).

Eldrazi Aggro: They're a cavern deck. Cut FoW, relic and altar. What you're bringing in is fine. Cutting decay (jitte) and drs (ramp) is wrong.

Painter: If they're UR painter keep Leo in. Mono red he can prob go.

Miracles: Really disagree with taking out FoW/Thoughtseize/Chain -- those are some of your best cards vs them. They have like 1-2 wincons, so FoW is great. Thoughtseize great for same reason. Chain is their worst nightmare. Don't add surgical, you have relic already for minor snapcaster disruption. Don't add another relic, you have one mainboard and they're not a GY deck. Cut 4 Strixes since they do nothing, cut the Altar cause it does nothing - that's 5 cards. 2 fluster 1 needle 1 clique 1 EE is also 5.

Storm: Cut all your strixes before anything else. plague/ee should only come in if they're TES. Cutting 2 lands is risky. You should generally only cut 1 forest in fast combo MUs.

Czech Pile: Another great grindy MU to bring Hostage Taker in vs. Stealing a snapcaster is gas.

Stoneblade: Thoughtseize is pretty good vs them. I'd cut all 4 FoW before cutting TS

D&T: Thoughtseize is decent vs them too. I would not cut chain or griffin. Altar of the Brood and Relic are useless here, cut them.

Infect: Never ever ever cut a ballista vs infect. That one card literally wins you the MU. Cutting 2 lands is risky again. Cut all Food Chains since you can easily win just via a Manip Fate or Ballista.

Reanimator: I'd cut more Food Chains before I started cutting Manip Fates

Grixis Delver: Don't bring in Relic vs them. You have one mainboard already that's enough. Flusterstorm also not needed, they're a creature deck. Cut Thoughtseize, Altar, 1 Food Chain and 2 Ponder. Ponder is slow, and you're just looking for removal anyway. So replace the ponders with removal.

Dark Depths: Cut Altar of the Brood over Food Chain

Moon Stompy: Cut Altar before Manip Fate.

I don't see a sb strat for lands, but for your build I'd suggest: -1 altar -4 strix +2 surgical +1 needle +1 ee +1 relic and possibly hostage taker too

[JackaBo]

Elves: Strix is useless here -- keep DRS take out Strix

Sneak: Strix is useless -- keep Ballista/Ponder/Fate take out Strix

In general Strix is really bad vs all combo decks except Reanimator

Jund: Leovold is good vs them, keep it in. Altar of the Brood can come out of maindeck since you don't want to mill their PFires. Push should come in to deal with Bob/DRS/Goyf. Hostage Taker could maybe come in.

Shardless: Hostage Taker should def. be coming in. It's a super grindy card and 3-for-1s your opps. Push seems less necessary since there's not as many "must kill" creatures as Jund. Shardless usually kills you with Strixes and Agents.

BUG Delver: Don't sideboard out FoW vs Delver. You happily trade resources for more time. Don't sideboard out Fate. You win by grinding them out. Take out Altar of the Brood (fuels their goyfs/stalkers) and slow stuff like Ponder.

Burn: Never take out FoW. Altar of the Brood can easily come out (sensing a pattern here, card is bad).

Eldrazi Aggro: They're a cavern deck. Cut FoW, relic and altar. What you're bringing in is fine. Cutting decay (jitte) and drs (ramp) is wrong.

Painter: If they're UR painter keep Leo in. Mono red he can prob go.

Miracles: Really disagree with taking out FoW/Thoughtseize/Chain -- those are some of your best cards vs them. They have like 1-2 wincons, so FoW is great. Thoughtseize great for same reason. Chain is their worst nightmare. Don't add surgical, you have relic already for minor snapcaster disruption. Don't add another relic, you have one mainboard and they're not a GY deck. Cut 4 Strixes since they do nothing, cut the Altar cause it does nothing - that's 5 cards. 2 fluster 1 needle 1 clique 1 EE is also 5.

Storm: Cut all your strixes before anything else. plague/ee should only come in if they're TES. Cutting 2 lands is risky. You should generally only cut 1 forest in fast combo MUs.

Czech Pile: Another great grindy MU to bring Hostage Taker in vs. Stealing a snapcaster is gas.

Stoneblade: Thoughtseize is pretty good vs them. I'd cut all 4 FoW before cutting TS

D&T: Thoughtseize is decent vs them too. I would not cut chain or griffin. Altar of the Brood and Relic are useless here, cut them.

Infect: Never ever ever cut a ballista vs infect. That one card literally wins you the MU. Cutting 2 lands is risky again. Cut all Food Chains since you can easily win just via a Manip Fate or Ballista.

Reanimator: I'd cut more Food Chains before I started cutting Manip Fates

Grixis Delver: Don't bring in Relic vs them. You have one mainboard already that's enough. Flusterstorm also not needed, they're a creature deck. Cut Thoughtseize, Altar, 1 Food Chain and 2 Ponder. Ponder is slow, and you're just looking for removal anyway. So replace the ponders with removal.

Dark Depths: Cut Altar of the Brood over Food Chain

Moon Stompy: Cut Altar before Manip Fate.

I don't see a sb strat for lands, but for your build I'd suggest: -1 altar -4 strix +2 surgical +1 needle +1 ee +1 relic and possibly hostage taker too

I agree with almost all of this.
I used to keep fow in vs eldrazi though. Either they play turn 2 tKS off double sol land and you get to fow it. If they play it turn 3 and it's not all that scary.
Interesting that people have so different view of SB:ing.

[battousai555]

Hi,

I made a file with sideboard tables for my list :
http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/...php?ref=584713

Here is the file :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=760684324

If somebody could look at it and correct the tables, it'd be nice to me.

Thanks

I also mostly agree with Kaono. However, I feel like for both Reanimator and Sneak I'd cut all Ballistas and Food Chains before Strixes. Strix pitches to FoW and draws us closer to more disruption, while still beating for 1 each turn. I feel like we have to try to be the control deck against faster combo decks, so I really don't like keeping any of the combo in. Ymmv, though.

[grokh]

I also mostly agree with Kaono. However, I feel like for both Reanimator and Sneak I'd cut all Ballistas and Food Chains before Strixes. Strix pitches to FoW and draws us closer to more disruption, while still beating for 1 each turn. I feel like we have to try to be the control deck against faster combo decks, so I really don't like keeping any of the combo in. Ymmv, though.

Yep, i agree with what you say Battousai555.

Great thanks to Kaono, i've updated most of my SB tables if you want to go and check again.

I'm also updating my list with -1 Ballista +1 Trinket mage

[Kaono]

I also mostly agree with Kaono. However, I feel like for both Reanimator and Sneak I'd cut all Ballistas and Food Chains before Strixes. Strix pitches to FoW and draws us closer to more disruption, while still beating for 1 each turn. I feel like we have to try to be the control deck against faster combo decks, so I really don't like keeping any of the combo in. Ymmv, though.

Definitely leave Strix in vs Reanimator -- I also cut all ballista and food chain that MU since we need both anti-combo and anti-creature SB cards.

Sneak is a tough MU -- I can understand cutting the combo but since Sneak is an A+B deck that we can't shut down as easily as the other combo decks I leave it in to mise the combo kill. If we give them enough time they can draw out of our early disruption. Strix cantrips, but it's either finding us combo or disruption so I'd rather just have those cards in hand instead. My blue count after board is 24 so not worried about pitch targets.

Great thanks to Kaono, i've updated most of my SB tables if you want to go and check again.

I'd recommend not taking Decay out vs Lands since their #1 SB cards vs us is Sphere of Resistance and Hostage Taker at 5 mana can be rough sometimes.

[battousai555]

Strix cantrips, but it's either finding us combo or disruption so I'd rather just have those cards in hand instead. My blue count after board is 24 so not worried about pitch targets.

I'm advocating Strixes over Ballistas/Chains, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say you'd rather the Strixes be disruption. The blue count is already high without Strix, but I'd usually rather pitch Strix to Force instead of any other blue card in my hand (save Griffin, of course). I've had many game states where my hand had something like Force+Brainstorm+Ballista, which forced me to pitch my Brainstorm to Force. Strix also doesn't need any other card to be useful, whereas Chain does nothing on its own, and Ballista is typically just a 1/1 beater without the combo in place. Strix also blocks Papa Gris and Emmy, which occasionally matters. Ballista is a faster beater over time when you have nothing to do other than use your mana to improve your clock, though.

Anyway, that's just my reasoning. The thing I love about magic is that there isn't necessarily an objectively "correct" way to sideboard, so I'll definitely do some more testing using your plan to see how it pans out. I appreciate the discussion!

[JackaBo]

I'm advocating Strixes over Ballistas/Chains, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say you'd rather the Strixes be disruption. The blue count is already high without Strix, but I'd usually rather pitch Strix to Force instead of any other blue card in my hand (save Griffin, of course). I've had many game states where my hand had something like Force+Brainstorm+Ballista, which forced me to pitch my Brainstorm to Force. Strix also doesn't need any other card to be useful, whereas Chain does nothing on its own, and Ballista is typically just a 1/1 beater without the combo in place. Strix also blocks Papa Gris and Emmy, which occasionally matters. Ballista is a faster beater over time when you have nothing to do other than use your mana to improve your clock, though.

Anyway, that's just my reasoning. The thing I love about magic is that there isn't necessarily an objectively "correct" way to sideboard, so I'll definitely do some more testing using your plan to see how it pans out. I appreciate the discussion!

I like to also consider how good half combo is versus different decks. Versus storm it's no disruption. Versus emrakul too.
Versus griselbrand though it's infinite chump and denying them of the life-gain and drawing of cards.
Therefore i like to keep food chain versus the griselbrand decks.

[grokh]

On my list, i'm actually with 2 Trinket mage 2 Ballista.

Is 1 Trinket mage 3 Ballista better ?

Does it change something ?

[grokh]

I can't see the use of having 1 Altar of the brood in the 75.

When do you prefer Altar to ballista when you're on infinite combo and getting a Trinket ?

Is there another reason to play Altar of the brood i don't see ?